Little Busters - General Anime Discussion [NO SPOILERS]

[ronelm2000]

Originally Posted by supermegasonic

what was with those eyes at the end??

those are eyes of despair... to which usually equates to ... ugh.... revelations.

[totoum]

Got a staff list from 2chan

Episode 6:
Script: Michiru Shimada
Storyboard: Yoshiki Yamakawa
Episode director: 岡本正弘 (sorry can't figure out who this is)
Animation director: Yuuko Yoshida , Kyoko Kametani , Hiromitsu Hagiwara

Episode 7:
Script: Michiru Shimada
Storyboard: Takashi Yamazaki
Episode director: Yūsuke Onoda
Animation director: Masahiro Sekiguchi

(note: seems like this episode was outsourced to the same people who handled Shana III episodes 7 and 14)

Episode 8:
Script: Michiru Shimada
Storyboard: Hajime Horinouchi
Episode director: Kentaro Suzuki
Animation director: Ena Nishikawa , Kyoko Kametani , Hitoshi Miyajima

(note: seems like one animation director is from studio C2C)

Episode 9:
Script: Michiru Shimada
Storyboard: Shinji Ishihira
Episode director: Daisuke Takashima
Animation director: Kaori Itou , Hiromitsu Hagiwara

Episode 10:
Script: Michiru Shimada
Storyboard: Shigeru Ueda
Episode director: Shigeru Ueda
Animation director: TBA

[OPN]

So were finally getting some good (or decent) animation directors...took ya long enough JC/warner ...but 3 directors in episode 8 O_o.

[minhhuywiki]

Ep 6 preview

[minhhuywiki]

OVA!!

https://twitter.com/litbus_anime/sta...88013018173442

[Arturia Polaris]

Originally Posted by minhhuywiki

Ep 6 preview

Frame 6 looks like something is going on hmm...

Also there's an unreleased episode in the first BD.

Arty

PS: Emu'd

[Kanon]

Staggering animation worthy of Musashi GUNDOH




J.C staff is truly going all out with this adaptation. Take that, Kyoani!

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

So are Haruka and Kanata related or something? They looked way too similar to not be connected somehow, especially with how Haruka looked somewhat upset during that first encounter with Kanata.

They look way to much alike to not be related. Furthermore, according to the pic posted above, they even share the same seiyuu (I didn't notice at all while watching the ep). They even have the same hair accessories. Even though they have different last names, I'm 90% sure they are twins and I don't think we are supposed to think otherwise. It's Key so they obviously have some sad backstory. They were probably separated when they were young after their parents died or something. I'll eat my hat if they turn out to be unrelated.

This episode was a lot better than the last two, mostly because Komari had minimal screentime. This anime is seriously a lot more enjoyable to watch when she keeps her mouth shut. Haruka is a rather fun character, but Kanata is more my type. I hope she'll join the Little busters as well, but sadly, the OP tells a different story..

[Triple_R]

I honestly don't know why people care that much about the animation quality in this show.

I mean, what about the content of this show calls for top-notch animation quality? You have the odd gag-fight, and some situational comedy, and people walking around while chatting with each other.

I mean, this isn't exactly serious elaborate swordfights, or giant mechas flying overhead, or huge explosions all over the place.


Top-notch animation is nice, of course, but what we have for this anime is satisfactory. It "gets the job done". There's no bit of animation that is so bad that it is distracting to me.

[Kanon]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

There's no bit of animation that is so bad that it is distracting to me.

That's the difference between you and me. I found the above part so horrible I burst out laughing. That's the first time I complain about the animation, by the way, though I've always found it rather cheap. That was the straw that broke the camel's back. I agree this kind of story doesn't necessarily need top-notch animation quality, but VN players may argue that this particular work deserves it.

Given that the VN already has drawings, music, and voices; the only added value of the anime is animation. If you're not going to have good animation (or any animation at all sometimes), one has to wonder what the point of an anime adaptation even is. Having excellent animation never hurts, and in fact can make the difference between a good series and a great series. Would a series like Chuunibyou be this highly praised if it had the same animation quality as Little Busters? Somehow I don't think so.

What really bothers me is that it's glaringly obvious J.C is putting minimal effort into this show when you compare it to their other series of the season (Sakurasou). What hurts even more is thinking about what this show could have been in the hands of that certain other studio.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Kanon

That's the difference between you and me. I found the above part so horrible I burst out laughing.

What's so horrible about it? It fits the slightly comedic nature of the scene it's featured in.

Given that the VN already has drawings, music, and voices; the only added value of the anime is animation.

The added value of the anime is reaching a wider audience. Plenty of anime fans simply don't have the time for the massive time-sinks that are the more prominent VNs. But we do have time for a half-hour episode a week.

Would a series like Chuunibyou be this highly praised if it had the same animation quality as Little Busters? Somehow I don't think so.

Probably not, but a lot of that is because Chuunibyou has elaborate action sequences.

What really bothers me is that it's glaringly obvious J.C is putting minimal effort into this show when you compare it to their other series of the season (Sakurasou).

I admit that's perplexing. If I was a top guy at Key, I'd be pretty pissed off at how JC Staff is budgeting itself right now. I can't see any good reason why JC Staff would put more effort into Sakurasou than it would into Little Busters!

So here I can understand people being upset.

But it seems like every episode somebody (not necessarily you, of course, just somebody) criticizes the animation quality in this show. I'm honestly getting tired of that, because I just don't think it's that important.

What hurts even more is thinking about what this show could have been in the hands of that certain other studio.

That certain other studio had ample opportunity to do Little Busters!, as there's every reason to believe that Key was holding out for them for a long time.

I can't blame Key for not waiting forever...

[ThereminVox]

Originally Posted by Kanon

They look way to much alike to not be related. Furthermore, according to the pic posted above, they even share the same seiyuu (I didn't notice at all while watching the ep). They even have the same hair accessories.

I missed that, but if it's true, I retract my guess that they might be cousins, or just be old enemies. They're either sisters (twins if they turn out to be in the same year) or we're getting some weird unreliable narration from Riki, and they're actually the same person. I know that sounds insane, but his narcolepsy reminds me of Fight Club

Probably estranged sisters, then. They really do look amazingly alike. Tragic family backstory, ho!

Originally Posted by Kanon

This episode was a lot better than the last two, mostly because Komari had minimal screentime. This anime is seriously a lot more enjoyable to watch when she keeps her mouth shut. Haruka is a rather fun character, but Kanata is more my type. I hope she'll join the Little busters as well, but sadly, the OP tells a different story..

I'm guessing the ED shows the full LB team. We're only missing the girl with the parasol. At first I thought "Oh, that makes sense, there are nine of them because they're recruiting a baseball team." But then I remembered that I wasn't counting Kyousuke. With him graduating, I get the feeling he's trying to groom Riki to take over "leadership" of the group. I think he wants the Little Busters to go on without him once he leaves.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Top-notch animation is nice, of course, but what we have for this anime is satisfactory. It "gets the job done". There's no bit of animation that is so bad that it is distracting to me.

This. Don't get me wrong, I've been watching animation long enough that I notice the stuff people are pointing out in LB, but honestly it doesn't hurt the show at all for me. It's perfectly serviceable for the content so far. Maybe people more experienced in the VN are worried about future events. I love me some pretty animation, but as long as it doesn't drop below a certain level, workmanlike visuals don't detract from a good show for me.

[Kanon]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

What's so horrible about it? It fits the slightly comedic nature of the scene it's featured in.

The bad drawings, the choppy animation... it's just plain bad. If the intention was indeed to make me laugh, then it did work. It's highly doubtful it was badly animated on purpose though.

The added value of the anime is reaching a wider audience. Plenty of anime fans simply don't have the time for the massive time-sinks that are the more prominent VNs. But we do have time for a half-hour episode a week.

Good point. That's actually the only reason I'm watching the anime rather than simply playing the novel. When I found out it was as long as Clannad, I had no choice but to give up.

However, I believe they should be trying to please the older fans as well. Based on their comments, they haven't exactly done a stellar job so far, quite the contrary. I also think it's a bad sign that the posting rate has dramatically decreased since the anime started. Where are all the posters from the anticipation thread?

Probably not, but a lot of that is because Chuunibyou has elaborate action sequences.

That's only a small part of it. I could have used Hyouka as an example as well.

But it seems like every episode somebody (not necessarily you, of course, just somebody) criticizes the animation quality in this show. I'm honestly getting tired of that, because I just don't think it's that important.

I don't see the problem with being critical of animation quality so long as it's justified. It's not like it happens only with Little Busters. When there is cheap animation, there will always been somebody to point it out (the opposite is also true). Shin Sekai Yori's also gotten its share of complaints lately.

I understand it can be annoying for people who don't mind it, but that's how it is. Animation is a key element of anime (duh), it's hard if not impossible to overlook for some of us.

That certain other studio had ample opportunity to do Little Busters!, as there's every reason to believe that Key was holding out for them for a long time.

I can't blame Key for not waiting forever...

I have no idea how J.C Staff ended up with Little Busters, so I can't comment on that. If that was indeed Kyoani's fault, then it was dumb on their part to let it pass under their noses.

[Lord of Fire]

Originally Posted by Kanon

That's the difference between you and me. I found the above part so horrible I burst out laughing. That's the first time I complain about the animation, by the way, though I've always found it rather cheap. That was the straw that broke the camel's back. I agree this kind of story doesn't necessarily need top-notch animation quality, but VN players may argue that this particular work deserves it.

Then maybe they should lower their standards a bit. I don't care how good or bad the game is, but I think a lot of the flack this show has been getting stems from VN players being too spoiled with most of the KEY games being adapted by KyoAni, and thus expecting them to do this one too. Now that they turned down the offer, and J.C. Staff (which many believe is an inferior studio) getting it, they vent their disappointment in (IMO) harsher-than-needed criticism. I agree that some scenes in LB! could look better, but they don't hinder my enjoyment of the show as a whole.

Given that the VN already has drawings, music, and voices; the only added value of the anime is animation. If you're not going to have good animation (or any animation at all sometimes), one has to wonder what the point of an anime adaptation even is.

1. Promoting the original source (in this case, the VN),
2. Sell anime/game-related merchandise (figurines, etc.),
3. Entertain.

I don't particularly care how good or bad a show looks, as long as it's within limits I find acceptable and it entertains me. And I place value in that last more than in the first – if it entertains me, I can easily overlook any glaring flaws. Of course, a show looking good helps, but that alone doesn't mean the show will be good as a whole.

Having excellent animation never hurts, and in fact can make the difference between a good series and a great series.

I'd argue that Nichijou is the exception to that rule. It looked fantastic, but ultimately, the show didn't deliver and I still think it would have been better off in the hands of a 'lesser' studio (preferably SHAFT, given that making random, quirky comedies seems to be their forte).

Would a series like Chuunibyou be this highly praised if it had the same animation quality as Little Busters? Somehow I don't think so.

I think this is a case of a self-fulfilling prophecy. We expect it to be bad, because KyoAni isn't in charge of LB!. And when a highly criticized studio like J.C. Staff gets the job, it's almost like people want it to become bad, so they can say, "I told you KyoAni could do it better!"

I'll admit that I'm also guilty for hyping Chu2Koi due to KyoAni doing it, but I would have easily checked it out if another studio did it as well, and might be entertained just as easily, even if the end product would have been totally different.

What really bothers me is that it's glaringly obvious J.C is putting minimal effort into this show when you compare it to their other series of the season (Sakurasou).

I've read that the flaws in Sakurasou are simply less obvious, (partially) because it's not as hyped as LB! is. It definitely is more colorful than LB!, but more colorful does not a better animation make.

What hurts even more is thinking about what this show could have been in the hands of that certain other studio.

Then maybe it's time to stop doing that, and accept that J.C. Staff is in charge. IMO, it's pointless to think about what might have been; it's not gonna happen in the foreseeable future, so why dwell on it?

[Rising Dragon]

So I guess I'm still the only one who can't see the "terrible" animation in this show? Because it looks fine to me. Unless we're all supposed to see shows like Gundam 00 or Fate/zero and Unlimited Blade Works as the standard for animation quality.

[Kanon]

Originally Posted by Lord of Fire

Then maybe they should lower their standards a bit. I don't care how good or bad the game is, but I think a lot of the flack this show has been getting stems from VN players being too spoiled with most of the KEY games being adapted by KyoAni, and thus expecting them to do this one too. Now that they turned down the offer, and J.C. Staff (which many believe is an inferior studio) getting it, they vent their disappointment in (IMO) harsher-than-needed criticism. I agree that some scenes in LB! could look better, but they don't hinder my enjoyment of the show as a whole.

I haven't played the game so I can't judge if all the criticism is justified. All I can do is compare it to the previous Key anime adaptation I've watched, and so far, Little Busters is incredibly underwhelming. I'm still not quite sure whether it has to do with the actual adaptation or the original work though. It's not like Key is infallible.

In any case, I don't think having high standards is a bad thing. It's natural to want the best possible adaptation for a work you love.

I've read that the flaws in Sakurasou are simply less obvious, (partially) because it's not as hyped as LB! is. It definitely is more colorful than LB!, but more colorful does not a better animation make.

The hype doesn't matter in that case. It's very easy to see Sakurasou has better production values than LilBus.

Then maybe it's time to stop doing that, and accept that J.C. Staff is in charge. IMO, it's pointless to think about what might have been; it's not gonna happen in the foreseeable future, so why dwell on it?

It's easier said than done, especially knowing that once upon a time, it had a strong possibility to happen. That said, I do try to judge Little Busters on its own merits. I just can't find that much merits, so far.

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

So I guess I'm still the only one who can't see the "terrible" animation in this show? Because it looks fine to me. Unless we're all supposed to see shows like Gundam 00 or Fate/zero and Unlimited Blade Works as the standard for animation quality.

Just to be clear, I was only talking about one particular scene. The rest was decent.

I think you guys are overreacting a bit. I don't recall people being that harsh about the animation. Most of the criticism from the game players seems to be aimed at the direction.

[Snuffle]

Originally Posted by Benigmatica

Is it me, of the quality of this episode dipped further after last week's episode?

Really? I felt it was rather good. I didn't notice anything that needed some major correcting. I really liked how Haruka's hair flowed, I was committing most of my attention to her, so maybe I've just overlooked something. Although... I still don't like the shape of Kud's face. She's a moe blob, literally.

Originally Posted by Lord of Fire

Then maybe they should lower their standards a bit. I don't care how good or bad the game is, but I think a lot of the flack this show has been getting stems from VN players being too spoiled with most of the KEY games being adapted by KyoAni, and thus expecting them to do this one too. Now that they turned down the offer, and J.C. Staff (which many believe is an inferior studio) getting it, they vent their disappointment in (IMO) harsher-than-needed criticism.

I'm not sure which was the main issue, wanting KyoAni's art style or just a different company than J.C. Staff for direction purposes (refer to the pre-airing thread (I think) for dozens of pages regarding this). For me personally, I just wanted an art style that was pleasing to look at, I'm mostly getting that so it's not a big problem for me.

In the first couple of episodes there was a bunch of art direction issues but it didn't seem to raise too much commotion. The major complaint is about the direction, the story is being altered, and having major plot devices ignored. It's for that reason I think, people did not want J.C Staff to take up this show. To clarify, from what I've heard, they have a reputation for doing things like that (Index II for example), and it's actually happening.

Originally Posted by Kanon

In any case, I don't think having high standards is a bad thing. It's natural to want the best possible adaptation for a work you love.

Just to be clear, I was only talking about one particular scene. The rest was decent.

Most of the criticism from the game players seems to be aimed at the direction.

QFT
Which scene are you talking about?
I'm glad someone noticed that.

[TJR]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

I admit that's perplexing. If I was a top guy at Key, I'd be pretty pissed off at how JC Staff is budgeting itself right now. I can't see any good reason why JC Staff would put more effort into Sakurasou than it would into Little Busters!

Budgeting is based on how much money they're receiving for the job. It doesn't matter how the property might be valued by fans since results are going to reflect how much is invested.

Certainly, VisualArt's should've known how much money would go into the show.

That certain other studio had ample opportunity to do Little Busters!, as there's every reason to believe that Key was holding out for them for a long time.

I can't blame Key for not waiting forever...

By the sounds of things, Little Busters may not be as hot of a catch as fans thought (which may extend to VNs in general.....definitely, prospects for monetization differ from other types of products, and the properties are owned by very different companies). VisualArt's evaluated several offers but found them inadequate, so what does that say about the project?

The TBS/KyoAni arrangement was an exception to the norm, and even then, those companies decided that they had better things to do with their money.

Originally Posted by Lord of Fire

I've read that the flaws in Sakurasou are simply less obvious, (partially) because it's not as hyped as LB! is. It definitely is more colorful than LB!, but more colorful does not a better animation make.

The staff on Sakurasou has been more impressive.

On the other hand, the schedule is looking like a disaster, whereas the Little Busters production shows signs of being better paced and organized (or they're at least coping with a tight schedule much differently). Perhaps there's some kind of trade-off being made.

Without details on production circumstances, we can't say why things are the way they are.

Originally Posted by Kanon

If that was indeed Kyoani's fault, then it was dumb on their part to let it pass under their noses.

Time will tell.....

So far, it's looking like a successful move on their part. After all, even in the best case, Little Busters has no long term significance to the company.

Most of the criticism from the game players seems to be aimed at the direction.

FWIW, there's much confusion over script, storyboard, and animation (which work in concert, of course). I think many players are unsure of what's causing them to be dissatisfied. For instance, I see script decisions being attributed to "direction".

What hurts even more is thinking about what this show could have been in the hands of that certain other studio.

Animation, yes. Content, not so much.

Improvements are possible, but having KyoAni on board wouldn't change the jokes, characters, or scenario concepts, which have proven to be divisive in all forms. You're getting a good idea of what Little Busters is about, particularly when it comes to the "school life" bits. What you aren't getting is the time for certain quirks to grow on you. For instance, jokes that are designed to be funny by repetition (and you may argue that they aren't particularly funny in the first place....it's like with slapstick, which writers try to make funny by turning it into a running gag) are presented only once or twice. Ditto for character mannerisms, which may annoy at first but become endearing to readers over a long period of time.

The adaptation strategy (which annoys game fans due to its compromises) was also designed by Key, and KyoAni would have no choice but to do something similar.

Originally Posted by Snuffle

Really? I felt it was rather good. I didn't notice anything that needed some major correcting. I really liked how Haruka's hair flowed, I was committing most of my attention to her, so maybe I've just overlooked something.

Animation wasn't bad, IMO. There were some issues with art stability, as well as distant character drawings.

This was an outsourced episode, which can be all over the map in terms of quality.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by TJR

Budgeting is based on how much money they're receiving for the job. It doesn't matter how the property might be valued by fans since results are going to reflect how much is invested.

I strongly disagree.

How much the property is valued by fans should definitely be reflected in how much money is invested in it.

If an animation studio adapted an extremely popular JRPG game into anime, and gave it a tinier budget than what they gave a relatively obscure 4Koma adaptation that they were doing at the very same time, you wouldn't see any just reason for criticism here?

By the sounds of things, Little Busters may not be as hot of a catch as fans thought

I don't think that's it. I think LB! held out for KyoAni for a long time, and LB! couldn't get them. LB! was going to be challenging, logistically, due to its length and nature of the source material.

It's not that LB! isn't a "hot catch". It's that while it's a hot catch, it's also a difficult one to do right.

Also, TJR, just why do you think this is one of the most heavily hyped otaku properties ever? I honestly can't think of any otaku property that I've read and seen fans clamoring to see adapted into anime more than I've seen with Little Busters!

Heck, I can see some studios being scared away from doing it out of fear that they couldn't achieve fan demands and hence would suffer fan backlash for their efforts.

The TBS/KyoAni arrangement was an exception to the norm,

The TBS/KyoAni arrangement showed that a popular VN adapted well could pull down 20K sales, which is megahit status for DVD/Blu-Ray sales.

Amagami SS and Yosuga no Sora also sold very well.

There's plenty of evidence that VN adaptations can sell well if handled well. This is especially true for popular source material, like the prominent Key titles.

Time will tell.....

So far, it's looking like a successful move on their part.

Oh? On just what basis are you making this claim? Do you think LB! will sell worse than Nichijou did?

After all, even in the best case, Little Busters has no long term significance to the company.

Why not?

[TJR]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

I strongly disagree.

How much the property is valued by fans should definitely be reflected in how much money is invested in it.

If an animation studio adapted an extremely popular JRPG game into anime, and gave it a tinier budget than what they gave a relatively obscure 4Koma adaptation that they were doing at the very same time, you wouldn't see any just reason for criticism here?

You're misunderstanding my point. If your client gives you $5000 for a particular job, you don't spend $15,000 (which you may not even have on hand) just because you or others think it's deserved. Simultaneously, if a second client gives you $8,000 for another job, it's unwise to redirect that money to the first (beyond some minor fudging, which may be undetected or forgiven), unless you're looking to be sued or dropped from future business.

Regarding Little Busters, the studio gets its production fee from the committee, which is led by Warner Bros. They could throw in their own money by joining the committee as a major investor (as KyoAni does; from early on, they were already joining production committees), but the majority of studios don't have much money to risk. They live from contract to contract without profiting much from their productions.

Also, TJR, just why do you think this is one of the most heavily hyped otaku properties ever?

The TBS/KyoAni arrangement showed that a popular VN adapted well could pull down 20K sales, which is megahit status for DVD/Blu-Ray sales.

I've never denied the popularity of the visual novel. It's just that few companies benefit from an anime adaptation, which can affect the budget they scrape together.

There's the DVD distributor (Warner Bros.), and there's VisualArt's (no financing muscle there, unlike a leading manga/light novel publisher). Who else? Key wants to control the music, and I'm unaware of any new manga or LN spin-off in the works (which could drive increased investment from a publication house). There's a figure producer, but they sell loads of stuff every season without having to invest much on any individual show, so there's no driving a hard bargain.

It boils down to what may be a single company leading the charge, and everyone has limits in terms of cash flow and acceptable risk.

Oh? On just what basis are you making this claim? Do you think LB! will sell worse than Nichijou did?

Where KyoAni had a choice, they went with Chuunibyou (for which they're lead investor in collaboration with TBS/Pony Canyon......unlike the Kadokawa and Key stuff, this isn't a work-for-hire effort in which they make a show primarily to benefit a partner company), which is their own IP. Successfully establishing your own properties is any company's dream since you raise your brand profile and keep the lion's share of the profits.

Why not?

It's good for two seasons at most, and they don't own the property. That's short-term significance.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by TJR

You're misunderstanding my point. If your client gives you $5000 for a particular job, you don't spend $15,000 (which you may not even have on hand) just because you or others think it's deserved.

So you don't think that JC Staff invests much of their own money into their anime productions? That's not a rhetorical question, by the way - I'm genuinely curious here.

JC Staff is known to be a "factory studio", and they have had some major hits to their name (especially with the RailDex franchise) so I'd be inclined to think they'd have a significant amount of money on hand. But I'll admit that I could be mistaken there.

Where KyoAni had a choice,

Wait, are you saying that KyoAni had absolutely no choice whatsoever when it came to Nichijou, or Hyouka for that matter? There's absolutely no way they could have done LB! in Spring/Summer 2011 instead of Nichijou?

... they went with Chuunibyou (for which they're lead investor in collaboration with TBS/Pony Canyon......unlike the Kadokawa and Key stuff, this isn't a work-for-hire effort in which they make a show primarily to benefit a partner company), which is their own IP. Successfully establishing your own properties is any company's dream since you raise your brand profile and keep the lion's share of the profits.

You don't think that KyoAni's "brand profile" has benefited from the Key/KyoAni relationship? I think that KyoAni "brand profile" has benefited considerably from being the animation studio that did Air, Kanon, and Clannad. They basically converted a huge chunk of Key fans into also being KyoAni fans due to successfully adapting these Key properties into anime. The evidence of this is crystal clear in the massive disappointment expressed by numerous Key fans over KyoAni not being the studio to do Little Busters!

Also, with "your own IP", you keep the lion's share of the profits, but you also take on more risk, don't you?

It's good for two seasons at most, and they don't own the property. That's short-term significance.

You don't see any potential for OVA spin-offs?

Not to mention the potential of turning Key fans into JC Staff fans in that same KyoAni way...