What's up with Isshin Kurosaki?

[ronin myael]

Originally Posted by secretzfan

I think it is easy to see Isshin was once a captain, but somehow I got this feeling that he was a substitute shinigami before that and died then becoming a shinigami. If Isshin was a substitute it explains how he knows Urahara and Ryuken, but most defiantly Ryuken. That is why I think Ichigo will go through the same thing now as Isshin.

Spoiler for Manga:

Looking at the latest manga chapters if the new guy Ginjro turns out to be a friend of Isshin a lot of things can go there like since he is the Representative shinigami he could have been sent by Isshin to look over Ichigo and Isshin could have known him as he was member of his squad.

Isshin was most likely kicked out for wanting to marry Masaki when marriage wasn't allowed in Soul Society and he could have met her as a substitute and was just now getting in trouble for it.

Spoiler for Manga:

Of course Mugetsu fits somewhere there

Spoiler for Manga Other option:

Or Isshin could have used Mugetsu which caused him to loose his powers thus get kicked out Soul Society and leave too Karakura were he falls in love with Masaki

huh? isshin as a substitute shinigami? you're not making sense there. there is no such thing as substitute shinigami. ichigo was called that because nobody knew what to call him or what position he should hold. he is human and yet he has shinigami powers, he's quite powerful too so soul society couldn't just take him for granted or not acknowledge his contributions. that's why he was given that badge, to acknowledge his existence. if i'm not mistaken, he was the first of his kind. he got his powers by accident. humans aren't supposed to become shinigami, it's forbidden for a shinigami to transfer their powers to a human that's why rukia was held responsible for her actions. it's a crime.

having isshin turn out to be of noble shinigami blood would make more sense. the kuchiki, shiba and shihouin are all powerful, far more powerful than normal citizens of soul society. if isshin was one of them then ichigo's super reiatsu would be explained.

of course he would know urahara and yoruichi. if he was one of the most powerful shinigami in soul society he would definitely know them. besides, how many shinigami do you know hide on earth? not that many. isshin even knows about the vizards. they can detect each other's reiatsu, of course they would eventually cross paths. the world is not big enough for powerful beings like that.

i don't really agree with that concept. just because isshin went through it, ichigo would as well. remember that this is the guy who only trained for 10 days, gained bankai in 3 days and learned to hone his hollow powers for just a month. so if isshin regained his shinigami powers after 16 years, ichigo would probably regain his in much lesser time.

you have quite an imagination there dude. it's good that you're trying to speculate on the possibilities but sometimes it can get too extreme and even farfetched. no offense meant.

[secretzfan]

Originally Posted by ronin myael

huh? isshin as a substitute shinigami? you're not making sense there. there is no such thing as substitute shinigami. ichigo was called that because nobody knew what to call him or what position he should hold. he is human and yet he has shinigami powers, he's quite powerful too so soul society couldn't just take him for granted or not acknowledge his contributions. that's why he was given that badge, to acknowledge his existence. if i'm not mistaken, he was the first of his kind. he got his powers by accident. humans aren't supposed to become shinigami, it's forbidden for a shinigami to transfer their powers to a human that's why rukia was held responsible for her actions. it's a crime.

having isshin turn out to be of noble shinigami blood would make more sense. the kuchiki, shiba and shihouin are all powerful, far more powerful than normal citizens of soul society. if isshin was one of them then ichigo's super reiatsu would be explained.

of course he would know urahara and yoruichi. if he was one of the most powerful shinigami in soul society he would definitely know them. besides, how many shinigami do you know hide on earth? not that many. isshin even knows about the vizards. they can detect each other's reiatsu, of course they would eventually cross paths. the world is not big enough for powerful beings like that.

i don't really agree with that concept. just because isshin went through it, ichigo would as well. remember that this is the guy who only trained for 10 days, gained bankai in 3 days and learned to hone his hollow powers for just a month. so if isshin regained his shinigami powers after 16 years, ichigo would probably regain his in much lesser time.

you have quite an imagination there dude. it's good that you're trying to speculate on the possibilities but sometimes it can get too extreme and even farfetched. no offense meant.

Wait for a second what did you think Isshin was when you first saw him besides a soul reaper. I am simply bringing up Ryuken. And if you know a subsititute is a half human half shinigami then go with it because that is what I am talking about.
Oh and remember movie 3

[ronin myael]

the movies have practically nothing to do with the series itself, same thing with the fillers. there are some things that they have taken from the manga but they're pretty much not connected to the main storyline.

when i first saw isshin? i thought he must have been one of the strongest shinigami in soul society who somehow gave up his position and lived among humans. remember that yoruichi, tessai and urahara did the same. they simply used gigai to blend in. urahara is a genius so he might have invented a gigai that can age or even replaced his every few years to make it look that he had aged. he can do the same for his clients and he obviously knows isshin. i won't be surprised if isshin had been his client since he came to settle on earth.

ryuken and isshin might have had an encounter years ago. karakura town is far too small for them not to meet and know about each other. they're not exactly friends, merely acquaintances.

substitute shinigami was a title especially given to ichigo because they didn't know what else to call him. he's human, he's not dead and yet he's a shinigami. he's practically an anomaly. he's neither a part of soul society nor has he formally pledged his allegiance to them. he's not part of the gotei 13. and do you remember the afro shinigami who replaced rukia as the resident shinigami of karakura town? he didn't even know ichigo. when ichigo showed him his substitute shinigami badge he laughed it off saying he hasn't heard of such a thing.

here's a link to bleach wiki where they're talking about the term substitute shinigami. check it out. http://bleach.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:I...tute_Shinigami

[Kyero Fox]

Originally Posted by Ghuanafein

I'm not sure if anyone has covered this, as I haven't had a chance to read the 800+ posts on here, but going back to who Kurosaki Isshin is: in episode 41,when Rukia, Byakuya, Ukitake, and the others are standing on the bridge after Ganju's failed attempt to rescue Rukia, Captain Ukitake makes the comment about how Ichigo is at least Captain level. He asks Byakuya who Ichigo is and Bykauya says "No Relation. At least, not to the man who just flashed through your mind, my senior." How about this idea? The idea that Ichigo's mother was a Quincy is a very valid option. Say Isshin fell in love with a Quincy, which would be unacceptable by Soul Society's standards, basically an embarrassment to Shinigami everywhere. How does Soul Society deal with embarrassment? They hide it in the dark as though it never happened. I think that Isshin was exiled from Soul Society after it was discovered that he was in love with a Quincy, and all records of him were destroyed and everyone was told that Isshin was never to be spoken of again.....?

Jjust for that? No I think uryuu would have been wanted after all this if they were that upset.

[secretzfan]

Originally Posted by ronin myael

the movies have practically nothing to do with the series itself, same thing with the fillers. there are some things that they have taken from the manga but they're pretty much not connected to the main storyline.

when i first saw isshin? i thought he must have been one of the strongest shinigami in soul society who somehow gave up his position and lived among humans. remember that yoruichi, tessai and urahara did the same. they simply used gigai to blend in. urahara is a genius so he might have invented a gigai that can age or even replaced his every few years to make it look that he had aged. he can do the same for his clients and he obviously knows isshin. i won't be surprised if isshin had been his client since he came to settle on earth.

ryuken and isshin might have had an encounter years ago. karakura town is far too small for them not to meet and know about each other. they're not exactly friends, merely acquaintances.

substitute shinigami was a title especially given to ichigo because they didn't know what else to call him. he's human, he's not dead and yet he's a shinigami. he's practically an anomaly. he's neither a part of soul society nor has he formally pledged his allegiance to them. he's not part of the gotei 13. and do you remember the afro shinigami who replaced rukia as the resident shinigami of karakura town? he didn't even know ichigo. when ichigo showed him his substitute shinigami badge he laughed it off saying he hasn't heard of such a thing.

here's a link to bleach wiki where they're talking about the term substitute shinigami. check it out. http://bleach.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:I...tute_Shinigami

Oh so you did no his was a shinigami when you first saw him that is what I wanted to be seen. The reason for me bringing up movie 3 was not for a connection to the actual story, but to see if you rembered the part when Renji was talking to Ichigo and Renji lost his memory.
Ichigo: I am substitute shinigami Kurosaki Ichigo
Renji: Substitute eh well yets see what you got.
Something like that although judging by how Renji said it he likely thought Ichigo was joking.

So many questions can stir up from Ryuken. Any way Isshin was most likley kicked out of soul society. I like that I idea better. I mean Isshin most likely went to the human world and met Ryuken and Masaki. Of course marrying Masaki was bad on it's on. He was in love though (This is similar to to my belief on Toshiro too) He was kicked out for marrying not a shinigami, but a human and had too leave.

Spoiler for Manga option 2:

Or perhaps when Isshin used Mugetsu he lost his powers and had to leave and then he came to meet Masaki and Ryuken

[ronin myael]

hmmm...i think you're reading too much into their words and actions, even from the movies that don't really mean much to the series. the movies are meant for the entertainment of the fans, it's not meant to be taken as part of the series itself. they're not written by kubo.

of course i knew he's a shinigami! he looked the part, acted the part and had the powers for the part. not to mention that he took out grand fisher with just one swing and he didn't even release his sword yet. so yeah, i'd say he's some powerful shinigami.

ah, for now that's just fairy tale. we don't really know for sure who masaki was or if she was really the reason why isshin "fell" to earth. if she was then i could point out some inconsistencies. if she was the reason, then isshin would have left soul society fairly recently, maybe just 18 years or so. she's human and mortal. even if she was someone who had strong reiatsu she still would have been mortal.

but then that would make isshin a contemporary of rukia and renji who became shinigami recently compared to the likes of byakuya. if isshin had been part of soul society during that time then renji would have recognized him or someone from his generation or even byakuya's generation like gin. but they don't. when he appeared to fight against aizen, the ones who recognized him were the older shinigami. gin didn't know him, but aizen did. aizen had been a shinigami for more than 100 years just like urahara, yoruichi and shinji.

so no, i don't think masaki was the reason. i think he hid on earth just like urahara and the others did. perhaps he even came to earth before they did. it had probably something to do with him losing his powers. when a shinigami loses his powers he might as well be a mortal. then meeting masaki gave him a reason to stay mortal and powerless. he married her, had children and was happy. until she died and their son started gaining shinigami powers.

the substitute shinigami thing is just a title. it's not a species or group of shinigami like the vizards. there is only one substitute shinigami and it's ichigo. remember that he got that title because when he first gained shinigami powers he borrowed rukia's powers. he stabbed himself with her sword and she transferred her powers to him so he could fight the hollow who was about to kill his family. if i'm not mistaken rukia said something about it being temporary, just until she could regain her strength. so she forced him to do her shinigami duties. so he was rukia's substitute. he even had an awkward-looking zanpakutou, very different from his later zanpakutou, that's because he had some of rukia's powers in him at that time. but when byakuya stripped him of rukia's powers and he gained his own, his sword took another the shape, the true shape of zangetsu. but the title stuck to him since he couldn't really be considered a shinigami. he doesn't live in soul society, he's not dead, he has a mortal body and he's not part of gotei 13. if he was then he probably would have been made a captain or a vice-captain at the very least. but he's not. do you understand?

[secretzfan]

something to do with him losing his powers. when a shinigami loses his powers he might as well be a mortal.

This was my second option that could have happened

Spoiler for Manga:

He used Muegetsu in SS and lost his powers so was exiled from SS

that simple
he then

most likely went to the human world and met Ryuken and Masaki. Of course then marrying Masaki

As for the substitute shinigami thing it was simply something I used to believe about Isshin. I mean movies aren't cannon, but they still have to stay on track with the Bleach laws and they can't like do something crazy like say quinces came from outer space or something

[Alchemist007]

I wonder what Isshin's role will be in the current manga arc

Spoiler for manga:

His disappearance is bound to come up significantly I think.

[Abhorsen]

Dont know whats been said apart from the last few pages but heres what i think about Isshin :

He must have been a captain (he wears the robe) after the time Vizards were, so between now and 100 years ago.
This is because they say he left SS after his wife died (which was about 5 of 6 years ago) but he wasnt seen in the flash back episodes of Urahara and Vizards.
Doing some reaserch i know who was the captains around 100 years ago and who took over from them.
Like Yuroichi -> Soi Fon
Byakuya's Grandfather -> Byakuya
so on... easy to research.
The only mystery me and my friend have come across is the 10th Divisions previous captain.. All we know is Unohana saying he was 'Killed in Action'.
RIIGHT? catching on?
Shinigami ways Hitsugaya is still young, 'Boy-Genius'.
So with all this we have come to the conclusion that Isshin was the previous captian of the 10th division.

PS. sorry if im repeating anything already said

Edit: There is no record of a 10th captain before Hitsugaya!

[Tenza-Zangetsu]

Originally Posted by Abhorsen

Dont know whats been said apart from the last few pages but heres what i think about Isshin :

He must have been a captain (he wears the robe) after the time Vizards were, so between now and 100 years ago.
This is because they say he left SS after his wife died (which was about 5 of 6 years ago) but he wasnt seen in the flash back episodes of Urahara and Vizards.
Doing some reaserch i know who was the captains around 100 years ago and who took over from them.
Like Yuroichi -> Soi Fon
Byakuya's Grandfather -> Byakuya
so on... easy to research.
The only mystery me and my friend have come across is the 10th Divisions previous captain.. All we know is Unohana saying he was 'Killed in Action'.
RIIGHT? catching on?
Shinigami ways Hitsugaya is still young, 'Boy-Genius'.
So with all this we have come to the conclusion that Isshin was the previous captian of the 10th division.

PS. sorry if im repeating anything already said

Edit: There is no record of a 10th captain before Hitsugaya!

or he could be from squad 0 and throw your hypothesis out the window

[jtjr26]

My own theory is what if Isshin was part of the Soul Society but from a long time ago, that left or was lost/trapped some how and when he escaped a lot of time had passed and he decided to make a life for himself in the living world rather that return to the Soul Society. Maybe he helped Urahara get settled into the real world.

[secretzfan]

Maybe Isshin was a substitute before he became a shinigami there were substitutes before Ichigo right. he then later died and beacme a shinigami this would make Ichigo and Isshin more alike.

Now onwards to this connection to Ginjou Kuggo. Ginjou was likely a soul reaper to since he has a bagde Ginjou knows urahara just like Isshin does also. It is likey that Issshin got his powers back from fullbringers. It could have been if not Ginjou another fullbringer like Ginjou's dad.

[DemonsStilletto]

I know this thread hasn't been very active in a while but I figured hey what the heck? Maybe someone might catch sight of my response to it and continue the discussion because hey, let's face it, Isshin Kurosaki is one tricky little bugger and is extraordinarily fun to discuss. I don't exactly have a theory of my own but more like questions I am going to pose that me and my younger sister have discussed as well as responses to theories that I have read about myself. Let's see how this goes, eh? Forewarned, I tried to keep this as relatively spoiler free for those who haven't read the manga or watched the subs to almost current, but a few unmarked ones may or may not have slipped through unintentionally. I'll do my best to come back and mark these up in days ahead.

First of all, one of the first things that comes into our minds first appears in episode 112 of the anime and we know it's in the manga but we're not sure what chapter right off the top of our heads, Isshin makes a comment to Urahara basically saying that civility isn't in Urahara's nature (Don't have the exact scripting in front of me and my internet refuses to play any videos right now or load any of the manga sites for some reason). This makes us wonder what is the exact state of their relationship. It feels a little .... distant or maybe more professional in nature than like actual friendship. So if that's the case, who is the upper professional and who is the lower one?

Second thing that we took notice of is for being without his powers or the use of his powers for 20 years, Isshin knows A LOT more than he probably should. Or more than just a mere lower shinigami would know. So the idea of him being a VC is definitely plausible (I mean look at Ikkaku - he's a VC but has a bankai so that puts him closer to Captaincy but he chooses to remain put), but personally I lean more towards him being a Captain if he was indeed part of the Gotei 13 at one point in time. He also knows a heck of a lot about Aizen's plans. Which really brings up the question of the timeline on his existence. Aizen's plans developed well before the TBTP arc, which is well over 100 years previous to the current time. Shinji in episode 111 (and I'm pretty sure the chapter in the manga that the episode stems from but I will have to double check this one when my computer is more cooperative) states that he recognizes the spiritual pressure as one belonging to a soul reaper but he doesn't recognize it so it's no one he personally knows of. That being the case this places Isshin in one of two spots: either right before Shinji and the other Vizards pop up in the Academy or the Gotei 13 or right after the TBTP incident but he vanishes right before Rukia comes into the story with the Kuchikis. I mean think about it for a second - if he was around when she was adopted, surely she would have met him or heard of him at some point thus would be able to eventually recognize him. But she hasn't yet. So in my head and my sister's head, this places Isshin in the timeline anywhere from 40-50 years ago or even further back than this. Makes sense to us but that's not saying a whole lot.... Anyways, the whole question here is just how on Earth does Isshin know as much as he does? He even knows about Ichigo's situation with the inner Hollow and the Vizards! He looks at Urahara and says it looks like they made contact with Ichigo just like Urahara had predicted. So where did THIS conversation have its basis in? When exactly have these two discussed this? This is something we hope KT clears up in the future.

Something that crosses our minds here is at the end of this conversation is Urahara makes the comment when they sense Ichigo headed that way that if Ichigo finds his dad in this form it's going to cause trouble for Isshin. Aside from the reaction from Ichigo, what else could that be? Is Isshin hiding from something? Or does he want to stay incognito until the last possible moment? Scratching our heads once again...

We noticed his reaction to when Ulqiuorra and Yammy appear and it's weird. Karin asks him if he sensed that in any way and he doesn't react. Does he not know how to react? Or does he merely not want to be given away? Just weird again.

Spoiler for Bleach, episode 111, Issin enters the fray:

We took notice how Isshin's handle/hilt/lower part of his unreleased zanpaukto looks a lot like/is exactly the same as Ichigo's when Ichigo carried the massive blank zanpaukto.

There's an idea here that we will be speaking on in just a few moments....

Okay, this note has to do with a filler episode but it does bring up a funny note.

Spoiler for Bleach, Episode 304, Finally the back of the haori?:

In Episode 304 (right now a subbed epi) , we finally get a glimpse on the back of Isshin's haori. I heard cheers all over the place at the thought of this. Well, I won't tell you what's there if you have not seen this yet but when you do, look it up. I am willing to bet that the symbol they put there was merely for a tease and to fill up space there since Isshin would finally wear it properly and we'd see the back, especially finding out what it might mean in kanji.

Honestly, I'm still not sure KT knows what's going on with Isshin himself. ALTHOUGH, from the interviews I've read and watched, KT does indeed have plans for Isshin, especially in the next long arc. So we will get to see what KT finally has to say on the matter here.

Returning to the canonized storyline here - in the fight against Aizen himself, irregardless of whether it was kidou or mere air pressure manipulation from a massive physical force,

Spoiler for Bleach, episode ???, Isshin giving Aizen the finger:

Isshin giving Aizen the world's biggest 'eff you' attack with one finger

is a huge pointer at just how bad a-- Isshin truly is, more so if it was sheer physical force.

Staying in this fight, this brings up a point I referred to earlier.

Spoiler for Bleach, episode ???, Isshin and GT:

Yes, we see Isshin pull off a GT

but we never see his released zanpaukto (refer to the current manga - Ichigo does something similar in his fullbring form). Why did he not release his zanpaukto to even his shikai? Is his zanpaukto sealed away for some reason? Or did KT pull a God-mode move and put it in the form of crazy zany Isshin? We actually have the name of his zanpaukto and his zanpaukto's name and Ichigo's zanpaukto's name translates into 'scathing moon' and 'slaying moon' respectively. Brings up a new question - I know many zanpaukto often belong to the same elemental family but rarely do names ever match up nearly as succinctly as these two do. So how often does this occur? To even have similar powers (i.e. the GT and

Spoiler for Bleach, episode ???, Isshin waiting on Ichigo:

FGT

?)? I'm willing to be this proves significant by the time the series comes to a complete end.

Aizen knows a lot about Ichigo. Too much. He's been way to invested and interested in Ichigo for this to not be signifcant. It's enough that Isshin feels the need to interrupt him. Why?

Spoiler for Bleach, episode ???, Isshin training Ichigo:

In the Dangai, Isshin shows how much power he alone has in order to stop the currents himself for 2000 hours

. So what level does this put him at?

The way Isshin wears his haori? This isn't significant at all to me. All the captains and VCs wear their uniforms differently. It's a personality aspect to me. Though, hiding his unit/squad/organization affliation does fit with Isshin's apparent deceptive inclinations.

Looking like other characters, i.e. The Shibas? I'm dismissing this one big time. Here is why: Ichigo and Kaien/other Shibas look aike. This was meant as a plot device to help push Rukia into helping Ichigo save himself and his family in my head. And other characters say the same throughout the series. So Isshin and Ganju looking alike really isn't too far a stretch honestly. What gets me and this could be a coincidence just as much as anything else is how much Isshin and Shunsui look alike. I mean take a good look at them. It's eerie.

In the current manga, there is something about to go down.

Spoiler for Bleach, episode unknown, It's about to go down!:

Isshin and Urahara are hanging out

, so it's obvious. Either it's going to happen in the next chapter or two or it's going to be a linking device to the next long arc.

That kind of glowing sword looking thing that Isshin is seen holding- I wonder, could that be Isshin's zanpaukto finally released? Just a thought and most likely an errant thought at that. I also hope we get to see Urahara's bankai. That's something else that has me curious but that's for another thread altogether.

I've also been thinking about the noble family system. We know there are 4 MAJOR families and then there are lower ranking ones. We know for 3 names: Kuchiki, Shihouin and Shiba (refresh my memory - were they a MAJOR family or one of the lower ones before falling into ruin?). So this leaves 1-2 more major family names unknown. Could Isshin possibly belong to one of these unknown branches? The Shiba theory if presented right does have some sense plausibility but overall I am dismissing this one until something more solid is presented in the series. It just isn't enough to present that character look alikes in my opinion.

So this in reality leaves just a few potential options left in my opinion:
Royal Guard

Royal Family/Court

The Stealth/Punishment Forces (We never hear who was ahead of Yoriuchi. It's a stretch I know, I know, but it was an errant thought that popped into our heads.)

Or...maybe even the Soul/Spirit King himself?

Something that brings this up is the

Spoiler for Bleach, episode ???, Aizen and Urahara's final talk:

discussion between Aizen and Urahara after Ichigo releases the FGT on him

. It makes it seem as if Urahara has been working with the SK in my head this entire time or at the least knows who he is. Could this by chance be Isshin or could Isshin be the link to the SK? I mean it's hinted at multiple times throughout the series (especially in the current manga arc) that Urahara and Isshin have worked together on the issues at hand multiple times throughout time. I'm just saying it isn't precisely entirely out of the realm of possiblity at the current time.

I think at this point in time it is easy to see that whatever role Isshin has, it's important enough that KT has been keeping us just enough informed of his existence and his abilities to keep us thinking and guessing. But I think that is what makes Isshin so fun to discuss. He is perhaps the BIGGEST mystery in this series. And while discussion on his character doesn't provoke truly intellectual discussions, it does provoke alot of creativity provoking discussions. It's a fun exercise in creating our own stories etc on him and the series as a whole. Like I said, this wasn't a post about a particular theory of ours but more of questions and things we noticed about Isshin and things from other theories we agreed or disagreed with.

Looking forward to responses!

[Chiisai Kuma]

you sir, probably summerised about 37 pages of this forum into one post.
i agree with your logic and kudos for typing it all out.

[DemonsStilletto]

Heh, thanks. I read a few pages but most of this does stem from the conversation me and my sister had one night. She asked me 'Hey sis...' and we started discussing the whole Isshin situation. So I guess we aren't that far off from the rest of the audience in many regards then. Good to know! Oh ya - I am a girl xD. Oh, how I <3 messing with people with usernames...LOL

[Chiisai Kuma]

imma girl too. my sis would knock me over the head if i tried talking about my "manga crap" to her

[DemonsStilletto]

Ahaha I see.

My biggest question about Isshin is how on Earth does he know so much and when on Earth has he been talking to Urahara. That would explain some of his character issues.

To know what he knows and yet be on the sidelines, he most definitely is not a simple character and has a bigger role to play. If he isn't directly associated with the Gotei 13 then what is he? I mean if Ichigo is truly of true blood that means Isshin HAS to be a full blood or at least more than a half breed like Ichigo is.... So in that light I personally dismiss Isshin as a substitute soul reaper. It just doesn't fit if you look at genetics.

C'mon KT, hurry up with the big reveals!

[secretzfan]

Originally Posted by DemonsStilletto

Ahaha I see.

My biggest question about Isshin is how on Earth does he know so much and when on Earth has he been talking to Urahara. That would explain some of his character issues.

To know what he knows and yet be on the sidelines, he most definitely is not a simple character and has a bigger role to play. If he isn't directly associated with the Gotei 13 then what is he? I mean if Ichigo is truly of true blood that means Isshin HAS to be a full blood or at least more than a half breed like Ichigo is.... So in that light I personally dismiss Isshin as a substitute soul reaper. It just doesn't fit if you look at genetics.

C'mon KT, hurry up with the big reveals!

If u look at what is going on now Isshin amy have been a substitute in the past, but was made a permanent shingami through the help of Kisuke, but if Isshin was part of the gotei were would he fit in the timeline, and y would he. Isshin obviously didn't care for his shingami powers, and even gave them up to be with the woman he loved Masaki of course this is not the same for Ichigo as he wants his powers back to be with Rukia again.

[Akashin]

Originally Posted by secretzfan

If u look at what is going on now Isshin amy have been a substitute in the past, but was made a permanent shingami through the help of Kisuke, but if Isshin was part of the gotei were would he fit in the timeline, and y would he. Isshin obviously didn't care for his shingami powers, and even gave them up to be with the woman he loved Masaki of course this is not the same for Ichigo as he wants his powers back to be with Rukia again.

I agree with the possibility of Isshin being a former Substitute Shinigami; it's not certain, but it is a definite possibility. Besides, Isshin being a member of the Gotei 13 in any capacity would mean Ichigo's name would be more well known than it appears to be (though Kubo could easily change this).

Though I don't know where you're getting the sense that Isshin doesn't care for his powers from. The most we've seen is that he's careful using them (only using them when he had no worry of being revealed and, during the Aizen fight, only using them out of absolute necessity), not that he dislikes them in any way. His living in the human world doesn't say much either; all that means is that he loved his wife more than he loved being a Shinigami. And given what we've seen for his love of Ichigo's mother, that's little surprise, really.

[secretzfan]

Originally Posted by Akashin

I agree with the possibility of Isshin being a former Substitute Shinigami; it's not certain, but it is a definite possibility. Besides, Isshin being a member of the Gotei 13 in any capacity would mean Ichigo's name would be more well known than it appears to be (though Kubo could easily change this).

Though I don't know where you're getting the sense that Isshin doesn't care for his powers from. The most we've seen is that he's careful using them (only using them when he had no worry of being revealed and, during the Aizen fight, only using them out of absolute necessity), not that he dislikes them in any way. His living in the human world doesn't say much either; all that means is that he loved his wife more than he loved being a Shinigami. And given what we've seen for his love of Ichigo's mother, that's little surprise, really.

Well I guess he doesn't care too much it was said before in the manga that he abandoned his powers and unlike Ichigo he seemed not to care rather he got them back or not. We've seen what Ichigo did when he lost his powers. Ichigo was devastate, but Isshin from what we have seen since the series began is alright not having powers.