AnimeSuki Forums

Mirificus · 2007-09-02, 15:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProtoMan

Again, Nanoha has never been a show where the plot was subtle or anything. Sure, it came a surprise the twists we saw during the first season, specially with Fate introduction. But after that it required little imagination to see where everything was going, at least the bigger strokes. StrikerS did nothing but continue that tradition. Is it something bad? Sure, since it just goes to show poor scripwritting and a lazy plot. Is it something tremendously detrimental? Not for me at least, since I never watched Nanoha for its plot since it started.

The animation has been inconsistent and the show keeps on resorting to telling rather than showing. If you take away the talking and the plot, what exactly are you left with?

Quote:

I was saying when comparing it to its cousins, those of the shounen and, to a leaser extent, the seinen genre. Out of all the anime genres, those have the most predictable plots in the anime world. Nanoha is higher than the rest of its family, but still she suffers from the family syntoms. I never denied that.

I wasn't looking at it in regard to genre conventions. I don't even know the typical shounen/seinen/magical girl genre conventions. I look at how Strikers stands on its own and with the rest of the Nanoha series.

Quote:

And I agree with you. As I said, I never denied that Nanoha has faults, I just said they are being blown out of proportion when considering the scope of the series. And within the scope of the series what you mentioned IS a big fault, since we are talking some illogical character relationship in here. (unless its just a parody about the fan's so called Nanoha school of befriending. Maybe the show is just poking fun at itself?)

That could very well have worked but the tone of Strikers has never really struck me as satirical. For better or worse, it seems to take itself pretty seriously.

Quote:

Again, maybe I have not stated my point clearly. My point has been that:

- We are marking flaws the series have, but that are not the focus of the series, and this, while bad, they are not extremely detrimental
- Inside the scope of the series, the third season still has faults, but at least on my opinion the overall balance is positive.
- My opinion, as everyone else's is not absolute, it's just a recollection of my own impressions and what I like. I'm just voicing out my thoughts since, as Chaos2Frozen said, we are underrepresented

I want to like the show as it has its good points but I can't help but recognize the undeniable decline in quality.

Proto · 2007-09-02, 15:35

Quote:

Yet people overlooked the most embarassing plot hole of the first half of the series (the emo-Tea arc)? Seems odd to me.

Really? Personally it has been my favorite part of the series. Everything that goes in pro of flesheninig out a character is a plus in my book. Then again it goes to show that we all have different tastes

Quote:

It's pretty dangerous. If the TV series itself is uninteresting, nobody will bother with other materials.

The manga standalone's chapters are included in Megami, so most people will see them anyway. As they see that they actually serve as a good complement to the series, people will go for the SS and whatever other material is available. It's all a big confabulation

Quote:

The animation has been inconsistent and the show keeps on resorting to telling rather than showing. If you take away the talking and the plot, what exactly are you left with?

Well, obviously we would still be left with the setting and the characters, and their inner relationships. Since I am tossing the setting as well, we are left with the characters, as I mentioned before. And yeah, I know that even within that there are faults, but I already addressed those previously

Avatar_notADV · 2007-09-02, 15:36

Let's put it this way - the show's all right for the genre (magical girl-ish), but not as good as the previous seasons, which were good enough that a lot of people who don't have a lot of patience with the genre normally were attracted to it.

The writing's not as good in the new season. The new characters aren't all that compelling, though I do like Subaru and Tea. The development of the villains, which was absolutely beautifully done in A's and pretty damn good in the original season, is lacking almost altogether in Strikers.

It's fair to say that we're setting a high bar for the series - we are, and the first two seasons of Nanoha were friggin' good - but it's also fair to say that Strikers ain't clearing that bar.

But that's not ep 23 commentary. ;p As far as that goes, it's not so bad that I'm not willing to let it play out, and there's still potential for a good ending - which is something that A's did not do well, so it could end up "each has its own strengths" eventually. And the animation's improving greatly with the DVD releases, thank goodness. So yeah, we can pick at it and pick at it, and certainly there's problems, but it's too early to throw up one's hands in despair...

xizro345 · 2007-09-02, 15:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProtoMan

Really? Personally it has been my favorite part of the series. Everything that goes in pro of flesheninig out a character is a plus in my book. Then again it goes to show that we all have different tastes

I call a wasted opportunity. All that cliffhanger resolved in what I can sum as "Nanoha is always right". Really disappointing.
If people can pass over this I don't see why they can complain about the rest of the series.

Mirificus · 2007-09-02, 15:57

My thoughts on episode 23. Fewer flashbacks would have helped with the pacing. The second and third seemed extraneous. It didn't disappoint me but to be honest, I wasn't expecting a whole lot by this point.

Spoiler:

Skyfall · 2007-09-02, 16:00

On the whole, i am going to sat the overall quality of StrikerS is lacking in almost all of the areas. From the very get go it has been plagued with pacing problems. The screentime and coverage characters get is uneven (Caro and Erio are not exactly well developed (though could be worse), despite being a part of the main cast) and the direction and focus of the show is questionable. Doesn't help the show is often wasting time (which could have been put to good use elsewhere) on seemingly unimportant things and their blunt method of storytelling.

They have introduced so many characters they simply don't know what to do with them. As a result we have villains about whom we couldn't care less about (As it is now, the 'bad guys' are far less developed than Wolkenritter were 6 episodes in to A's) and character interactions that make little sense, even though they should have. (Hello Lutecia and Lightning squad).

StrikerS feels like a project that was intended to be of an epic scale, but proved to be beyond the abilities of scriptwriters to pull off in a satisfying manner. What we have as a result is unclear direction, shaky plot and somewhat forced character interactions. Quantity is not better than quality when setting up characters that are supposed to form the core of the story.

StrikerS having manga and sound stages does not help any way either - if i have to resort to other sources in order to get the whole enjoyment/understanding out of the show, it is a huge flaw right then and there. As it is now, the show is absolutely mediocre on its own, and it certainly does not live up to its predecessors. I think calling it one of the biggest letdowns of the season wouldn't be much of a stretch, considering people were looking towards this quite a bit.

Demon Eyes · 2007-09-02, 16:05

All those who saw this surprise coming(You know what I'm talking about), please raise your hands.....

I see...No one....

*Grins*

And so, they start falling like crazy!

God damn perfect for a perfect surprise!

Still waiting for the ultimate surprise though!!

But wait, My Fate is still under wraps?!!! What F*****??!!

I love Nanoha!

Estavali · 2007-09-02, 16:29

Spoiler for Hmm...:

mist2123 · 2007-09-02, 16:45

Question about nanoha?

Spoiler:

Chaos2Frozen · 2007-09-02, 17:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by xizro345

I call a wasted opportunity. All that cliffhanger resolved in what I can sum as "Nanoha is always right". Really disappointing.
If people can pass over this I don't see why they can complain about the rest of the series.

Are you serious? You're comparing 2 episodes against the entire second half of the season?

I agree, I don't like that arc, but only because it took too long. But I tolerate it because it's only 2 episodes and I had hoped that it would be the end of Stars development.

Chaos2Frozen · 2007-09-02, 17:15

@ProtoMan

I see what you mean. You DO accept that StrikerS has many faults, but the only reason why you can still enjoy it is because your expectation of it has been alot lower than the rest of us here...

Maybe because we value different things, but the amount and the depth of those mistakes is more than I (And alot others) can accept.

Favoring only certain main characters? Might as well get rid of the rest! Okay, abit extreme... The point is, they've messed up, and the only reason why you're still okay with it, is because you don't find it as serious... Probably because all you're interested in is Nanoha, Fate, Subaru, Teana...

Well, I like character interaction too, where my Lutecia/Erio/Caro?

P.S - Yeah, numbers are important... Look at the NxF fans

Algent · 2007-09-02, 17:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by mist2123

Question about nanoha?

Spoiler:

That is a good question, I wonder how many more limiter she have.
Also, her last attack injuried her ?

I hope IV will be killed in a horrible way

Tia part his really good, 1vs3 and she already killed 2

Chaos2Frozen · 2007-09-02, 17:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Demon Eyes

All those who saw this surprise coming(You know what I'm talking about), please raise your hands.....

I see...No one....

*Grins*

"The Dark gods see all... "

*Grins*

Quote:

Originally Posted by Demon Eyes

And so, they start falling like crazy!

God damn perfect for a perfect surprise!

Still waiting for the ultimate surprise though!!

The ultimate surprise would be a little girl dying.

It's the only 'shocking' card up their sleeves now, might as well play it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Demon Eyes

But wait, My Fate is still under wraps?!!! What F*****??!!

I love Nanoha!

Yup, these are the NxF fans...

Dream_Traveller · 2007-09-02, 17:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Algent

That is a good question, I wonder how many more limiter she have.
Also, her last attack injuried her ?

I hope IV will be killed in a horrible way

Tia part his really good, 1vs3 and she already killed 2

Come now, Numbers won't be killed by projectiles of that size. They were knocked out, despite the lifeless look Uendi's face, but I assure you they're not dead.

Don't get me started on my old "Nanoha is not the anime for death" rant again...

A good episode, though, and Teana's part was indeed good, along with Subaru's skirmish...one question remains...

Where in the blue heck is Cinque? And Due for that matter?

Alright, so it's only been three episodes since Due first showed up, but it's been 6 now, maybe 7, for Cinque. What's taking them? Both have to show up some time soon.

Kha · 2007-09-02, 17:31

Gosh I see that everyone seems to agree what a letdown this has been; I'm no different. Everything has been discussed to pieces, so once I watch the RAW later I'll be back.

Meanwhile, I smell something familiar...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keroko

Some of us have got to have alter egos working at 7arcs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by arkhangelsk

In that case, clearly the problem is that we don't have enough moles in that company...

(

)

Quote:

Originally Posted by krisslanza

Yes! Or some of you are 7Arc sleeper agents! O_O

(

)

Key Board · 2007-09-02, 17:39

Cinque is probably still in repairs

or maybe she was recycled

serenade_beta · 2007-09-02, 17:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Key Board

or maybe she was recycled

That would be a bit...

FlareKnight · 2007-09-02, 17:47

Damn straight what happened to the Caro/Erio/Lutecia interactions? What happened to lone island episode....Well it could've happened

. Seemed like there was plenty of chance for that kind've stuff around 11/12. But then they brought in Vivio and things just shifted and dropped the Lightning Squad. Caro got an episode with flashbacks to cover her past and why she was there and eventually Erio got a short flashback and that was about it. WIth some work they could've made the attempt to convert Lutecia actually make sense.

Though it's episode 23 seems we've hit the series overall discussion as well here. Just seems like the Chrono getting married to Amy was the tip of the iceberg on things I wasn't satisfied with here. Not that I dislike Subaru and Teana, but I think they had did hit some issues with StrikerS. In the end one good thing coming from StrikerS though is that it made me go and watch the first two series which wouldn't have happened otherwise.

Spoiler for Ep Thought:

FlameSparkZ · 2007-09-02, 17:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Estavali

Spoiler for Hmm...:

My thoughts:

Spoiler for Episode 23:

Looking forward to the next episode

Quote:

Originally Posted by Key Board

Cinque is probably still in repairs.

Haha...or maybe she's going to save Sein from Sister Schach...highly likely.

Either that or Due is going to 'seduce' Schach and then stab her from behind

aroduc · 2007-09-02, 18:41

The important parts of the episode.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ieKBp7zYMqA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WLaXwjNRQo

Well, minus Vivio.

Caps, etc.
http://blog.seiha.org/?p=312

View Poll Results: Nanoha - StrikerS - Episode 23 Rating
Perfect 10	18	34.62%
9 out of 10 : Excellent	17	32.69%
8 out of 10 : Very Good	12	23.08%
7 out of 10 : Good	4	7.69%
6 out of 10 : Average	1	1.92%
5 out of 10 : Below Average	0	0%
4 out of 10 : Poor	0	0%
3 out of 10 : Bad	0	0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad	0	0%
1 out of 10 : Painful	0	0%
Voters: 52. You may not vote on this poll

2007-09-02, 15:57	Link #65
Mirificus Senior Member Join Date: May 2007	My thoughts on episode 23. Fewer flashbacks would have helped with the pacing. The second and third seemed extraneous. It didn't disappoint me but to be honest, I wasn't expecting a whole lot by this point. Spoiler: -It was nice to see Nanoha acting appropriately this episode. She didn't waste any time with Dieci and knocked her out with one shot and she did take the shot opportunity against Quattro when she thought she had a chance. -It seems like even changing forms can't prevent Vivio from whining. -TSAB ground mages make their appearance. Their green uniforms may as well be red. -I liked the flashback with Ginga, Subaru and Quint. Hopefully this won't be the last we see of Ginga acting normally. It seems she's always liked fighting -The second flashback and third flashbacks seemed excessive and unnecessary. -"Alright buddy" -it's more fun when they use a native English speaker to mangle the words -This is the first time I've seen Shamal in combat with a serious look on her face. Now she finally matches the A's DVD covers Concentrating decisive force against a single target = win. -Teana = awesome -Subaru vs Ginga seemed kind of anti-climatic with the constant interruptions. Why Subaru would be able to win at that particular point and not earlier or later, I have no idea. -What is a Hayate? __________________ Last edited by Mirificus; 2007-09-02 at 16:24.

2007-09-02, 16:00	Link #66
Skyfall Lost in my dreams... Join Date: Jun 2006 Age: 37	On the whole, i am going to sat the overall quality of StrikerS is lacking in almost all of the areas. From the very get go it has been plagued with pacing problems. The screentime and coverage characters get is uneven (Caro and Erio are not exactly well developed (though could be worse), despite being a part of the main cast) and the direction and focus of the show is questionable. Doesn't help the show is often wasting time (which could have been put to good use elsewhere) on seemingly unimportant things and their blunt method of storytelling. They have introduced so many characters they simply don't know what to do with them. As a result we have villains about whom we couldn't care less about (As it is now, the 'bad guys' are far less developed than Wolkenritter were 6 episodes in to A's) and character interactions that make little sense, even though they should have. (Hello Lutecia and Lightning squad). StrikerS feels like a project that was intended to be of an epic scale, but proved to be beyond the abilities of scriptwriters to pull off in a satisfying manner. What we have as a result is unclear direction, shaky plot and somewhat forced character interactions. Quantity is not better than quality when setting up characters that are supposed to form the core of the story. StrikerS having manga and sound stages does not help any way either - if i have to resort to other sources in order to get the whole enjoyment/understanding out of the show, it is a huge flaw right then and there. As it is now, the show is absolutely mediocre on its own, and it certainly does not live up to its predecessors. I think calling it one of the biggest letdowns of the season wouldn't be much of a stretch, considering people were looking towards this quite a bit. __________________

2007-09-02, 16:05	Link #67
Demon Eyes May Haru-ki Be With You Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Dublin	All those who saw this surprise coming(You know what I'm talking about), please raise your hands..... I see...No one.... Grins And so, they start falling like crazy! God damn perfect for a perfect surprise! Still waiting for the ultimate surprise though!! But wait, My Fate is still under wraps?!!! What F****??!! I love Nanoha! Last edited by Demon Eyes; 2007-09-02 at 16:23.*

2007-09-02, 16:29	Link #68
Estavali 物語は、もう、おしまい……？ Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: In the Horizon Age: 43	Spoiler for Hmm...: Zafira sounds and looks surprisingly well for someone previously in a very bad shape (half-dead even). Shamal must really have given him some special treatment . I'm glad I'm not the only who thought of Hayate and Rein I during Vivio's "burst of growth" part. Though I wonder if the Scaglietti family have a hand in deciding adult Vivio's clothes. Kings are supposed to look royal, aren't they? Vivio (or Scaglietti) could take a page from Gilgamesh or Saber when it comes to kingly fashion. So it was a in-built self-defense ability, hmm? So why didn't this ability kick up during Vivio's abduction? Is Lutecia's loli barrier so haxxed that even the Sei-Ou no Yoroi isn't a match? if so, Nanoha must really regret losing her loli status. Tiana has proven four things today: 1) Brains and guts are indeed your best friends in a pinch. 2) Two are definitely better than one. 3) Nanoha's lessons are useful afterall. 4) And that tsunderes rule the world . __________________ Signature by liro

2007-09-02, 15:36	Link #63
Avatar_notADV Once and Current Subber Join Date: Dec 2005	Let's put it this way - the show's all right for the genre (magical girl-ish), but not as good as the previous seasons, which were good enough that a lot of people who don't have a lot of patience with the genre normally were attracted to it. The writing's not as good in the new season. The new characters aren't all that compelling, though I do like Subaru and Tea. The development of the villains, which was absolutely beautifully done in A's and pretty damn good in the original season, is lacking almost altogether in Strikers. It's fair to say that we're setting a high bar for the series - we are, and the first two seasons of Nanoha were friggin' good - but it's also fair to say that Strikers ain't clearing that bar. But that's not ep 23 commentary. ;p As far as that goes, it's not so bad that I'm not willing to let it play out, and there's still potential for a good ending - which is something that A's did not do well, so it could end up "each has its own strengths" eventually. And the animation's improving greatly with the DVD releases, thank goodness. So yeah, we can pick at it and pick at it, and certainly there's problems, but it's too early to throw up one's hands in despair...

2007-09-02, 16:45	Link #69
mist2123 Banned Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: M.U	Question about nanoha? Spoiler: how many limiters does she have??

2007-09-02, 17:15	Link #71
Chaos2Frozen We're Back Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Redgrave City Age: 35	@ProtoMan I see what you mean. You DO accept that StrikerS has many faults, but the only reason why you can still enjoy it is because your expectation of it has been alot lower than the rest of us here... Maybe because we value different things, but the amount and the depth of those mistakes is more than I (And alot others) can accept. Favoring only certain main characters? Might as well get rid of the rest! Okay, abit extreme... The point is, they've messed up, and the only reason why you're still okay with it, is because you don't find it as serious... Probably because all you're interested in is Nanoha, Fate, Subaru, Teana... Well, I like character interaction too, where my Lutecia/Erio/Caro? P.S - Yeah, numbers are important... Look at the NxF fans __________________ Devil Trigger , Subhuman , Crimson Cloud , Mad Qualia

2007-09-02, 17:39	Link #76
Key Board Carbon Join Date: Nov 2003	Cinque is probably still in repairs or maybe she was recycled

2007-09-02, 17:47	Link #78
FlareKnight User of the "Fast Draw" Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Canada	Damn straight what happened to the Caro/Erio/Lutecia interactions? What happened to lone island episode....Well it could've happened . Seemed like there was plenty of chance for that kind've stuff around 11/12. But then they brought in Vivio and things just shifted and dropped the Lightning Squad. Caro got an episode with flashbacks to cover her past and why she was there and eventually Erio got a short flashback and that was about it. WIth some work they could've made the attempt to convert Lutecia actually make sense. Though it's episode 23 seems we've hit the series overall discussion as well here. Just seems like the Chrono getting married to Amy was the tip of the iceberg on things I wasn't satisfied with here. Not that I dislike Subaru and Teana, but I think they had did hit some issues with StrikerS. In the end one good thing coming from StrikerS though is that it made me go and watch the first two series which wouldn't have happened otherwise. Spoiler for Ep Thought: So next week I guess we're getting Fate cutting loose again. Plus the Erio/Caro battle against mind controlled Lutecia. Hope at least the fights go well since that is one thing to still look forward to. __________________ Anime-Evo

2007-09-02, 18:41	Link #80
aroduc Ruiner of Things Join Date: Dec 2005	The important parts of the episode. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ieKBp7zYMqA http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WLaXwjNRQo Well, minus Vivio. Caps, etc. http://blog.seiha.org/?p=312