Man, I just learned about sleep/dreaming and REM sleep a month ago. Also things about Freud(Sigmund). I didn't think it would come in handy in an anime!!??
The novel has a little bit more to say with "oh come on! this result is so cliche!" than the anime but it's a fair trade off.
I've already started hearing complaints (on other forums/blogs, generally from people who haven't watched the anime or read the novel) that of course the main character gets to kiss the girl, that's so obviously cliche. And I always have to suppress myself from pointing out that yes, the main character agrees with them.
I think everyone's overthinking this. The episode itself tells us a lot about what's going on and why. Starting at about 15:32...
Kyon and Haruhi begin to have this strange argument. I say strange because at first they seem to be talking past each other, and also because the topic of the argument is unconventional (how often do you debate with someone whether the world should continue to exist or not?)
Kyon asks Haruhi whether she wouldn't rather go back to the old world. He gives several reasons the new world would be undesirable: There doesn't seem to be anything to eat, the things Haruhi put so much effort into (SOS-Dan) don't exist anymore. Haruhi glibly deflects all these complaints because she has a feeling it will all work out in the end. At 16:06 Kyon says "I want to go back" and she hesitates for the first time.
Kyon's half of the argument takes a very interesting turn. He says "I found out something interesting after being thrown into this situation. I may complain all the time but I really liked how my life was." (emphasis added by me). That's a deep insight into Kyon's personality... Don't necessarily believe him when he complains about something. He complains about SOS-Dan perpetually but he never leaves. Is this because of some sense of duty to the human race? I believe he stays because he really likes the company, and he complains because that's just his personality. He gripes about Haruhi all the time too but that's no reason to think he dislikes her.
Then he mentions how much he's enjoyed being around his friends at school, including Mikuru, Itsuki, and Yuki (and surprisingly Asakura). Haruhi response is VERY interesting: "I'm sure we'll see them again. This world won't be covered in darkness forever. The sun will rise tomorrow." She's making a promise to Kyon to include those people in the new world. You could say the new world will be what Kyon wants it to be, at least in part.
Then Kyon flat out says that's not good enough. "I want to see the old them in the old world." Stop this new world business, it's not what I want. And THAT makes Haruhi let go of his hand and stop in her tracks.
"I don't get it. Weren't you fed up with that boring world? Didn't you want something more interesting to happen?" She looks like a kicked puppy. The most astounding part of this is... When has Kyon ever told her that he was bored with the old world? When has she ever said her goal was to make Kyon happy? I thought Haruhi was supposed to be the bored one! Isn't she a megalomaniac? Yet everything in her words and mannerisms here say she was trying to do this for Kyon, not herself!
Even more stunning is Kyon's response at 17:20: "I did indeed [want something interesting to happen]." This is completely against everything Kyon's told us to this point... He constantly gripes about just wanting to lead a normal life, about wishing he'd never met Haruhi. Hell, he even starts this episode with a monologue about how he wishes the time travelers, espers, and aliens would just tell Haruhi their stories and leave him alone! But there's really no reason for him to lie to Haruhi here... He's telling her the truth, and has been lying to us (and himself) this whole time.
The reason he wants to stay in the old world? Because there really are aliens, time travellers, and espers. Not because he wants to go back to a normal life, but because the old one was plenty abnormal already. He tells her that she's the center of the universe but doesn't realize it. That's not good enough for her... It's not good enough that everyone else thinks she's great. It's not good enough that Kyon's happy (though that's very, very important to her). She wants a reason to be happy in the old world too.
Heh, finnaly decided to join this forum due to all the interesting talk going on here, and partly because of Suzumiya Haruhi.
The finnal episode (er... or 6th episode?) of Haruhi was quite amazin and even went behond my expectations. The only real bad thing about it is that it's the last episode (sorta) before any new seasion is made. Makes me kinda piss that KyoAni decided that they need the animators for Kanon rather make this a full season series.
About how that kiss that stopped the closed space, I believe that she was distracted by it as Kyon called it in the novel "mixed up data" rather that her making the closed space for that purpose. After all the reason she created it was because she did not liked that old world because it was too boring. Regardless the kiss had a big meaning to her since she wanted Kyon to be with her in this new world, and even tied a pony tail the next day. I have to agrea with The Sphinx's post on why she needed a reason to like the old world.
Kyon on the other hand was pretty much forced to kiss her considering the situation he's in. He pretty much dodged the question on what he thinks about her in that moment but also kinda accept that he does not see her as just another person or some great deity like entity. Kyon is one of those guys that like to accept what would be considered the norm for everything. Regardless of what he may really think about her it would be like him accepting that he likes a insane and unpredictable girl who's looking for aliens, time travelers, and espers. Thats probably why he has an easy time admitting he likes Mikuru as she has a more normal personality dispite being a time traveler. There are many scenes that shows that they share a certain bond together and IMO he probably enjoyed that kiss but would rather commit suicide (or be forced to save the world ) before he admits that.
a.f.k. put out this title consistently fast and with great quality. By their effort, I found myself another favorite anime. I was afraid the title may go incomplete like Aishiteruze Baby, which I liked a lot too that a.f.k. did a couple of years ago that was suddenly dropped. I'm relieved that they stuck with Suzumiya Haruhi to the finish.
sumthing have left me wondering until now .. the season already finished .. but 1 main question is still left unanswered .... or issit i missed it out somewhere??
the question -> what happened 3 years ago??? ...
in episode 7 (series order - 8 in chronology) , at the scene where only Haruhi, Kyon, and Nagato are in the clubroom , theres a line where Kyon mentioned about something happened during Tanabata 3 years ago ...
Quote:
Kyon :
She's not going to start talking about what happened on Tanabata three years ago, right? @ 05:27
that sumwhat implies Haruhi told sumthing to Kyon on episode 7 (chronological order - 4 in series) ..... did i miss sumthing???
or perhaps this will be resolved in a new season?? an episode that will fit in between episode 6 and 8 of the chronology?
sumthing have left me wondering until now .. the season already finished .. but 1 main question is still left unanswered .... or issit i missed it out somewhere??
the question -> what happened 3 years ago??? ...
in episode 7 (series order - 8 in chronology) , at the scene where only Haruhi, Kyon, and Nagato are in the clubroom , theres a line where Kyon mentioned about something happened during Tanabata 3 years ago ...
that sumwhat implies Haruhi told sumthing to Kyon on episode 7 (chronological order - 4 in series) ..... did i miss sumthing???
or perhaps this will be resolved in a new season?? an episode that will fit in between episode 6 and 8 of the chronology?
Spoiler:
It'll probably take most of season 2 to answer that question.
Hmm, The Sphinx's analysis surprised me, and I think it is reasonable enough to agree with him.
Kyon "did" want that kind of life, as stated in Episode 2, but reality slapped him in the face once he got into Middle school -- that all of those: Time travellers, Aliens and Espers didn't exist. Which is why he said what he said: "I did indeed [want something interesting to happen].". My theory is even though his rational thinking would always stop him from believing, he still wished for the things that Haruhi wished for, and for that he is unconsiously attracted to her and the SOS-dan.
I agree that he might have been lying to us all this time, but it is only because his reason is speaking for him. He tends to disbelieve because he was once a believer.
@KageSenshi: That would probably be answered in the second season if they would follow my speculation (see speculation thread).
Obviously Kyon is sexually attracted to Haruhi. Anyone who denies this is just fooling themselves. Kyon is a typical teenager despite his instense sarcasm. And he values her as a friend or even more. However, I doubt that he is definitively in love, although I'm sure it could eventually progress to that point. The thought of seeing her undress certainly doesn't repulse him, but on the other hand he feels a romantic kiss at this point is more of a duty than a privledge.
Haruhi on the other hand is a bit more complex. Clearly she likes Kyon. The fact that she puts so much effort into degrading him and dragging him around proves this. However, again, it's probably not love at that point. Rather, Haruhi wants a companion to share in her adventures. Someone who wants the same thing. Kyon is that person(remember he used to be believe in all the stuff Haruhi does). Her fits of rage whenever Kyon fawns over Mikuru is part of her personality, not necessarily a sign of love. Haruhi always gets what she wants, so when someone starts encroaching on her "property" she's not going to be happy. Why she tries to tempt Kyon with Mikuru is beyond me. Maybe it's a test, maybe she's bi. Who knows.
You have to admit, Haruhi and Kyon make the perfect odd couple. It's really charming. They both care about each other and certainly have intertwined destinies, but they'd never admit to it.
But in the end, none of that matters because we all know that this entire story is just a metaphor for sex. I plan to write up a thesis about it. If they could do it with Evangelion, I can do it with Haruhi.
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 66
cookies for Sphinx ... he saved me a lot of typing. Nice....
This show is now on my list of "if you don't get it, there's probably a lot of other things you don't get."
Not original (but then what is)... but an excellent assembly of science fiction concepts, satirical dancing on anime archetypes, romance, and stellar production values.
First up, I'm gonna shamelessly jump on the holy-crap-train and give a HUGE thumbs up to the subbers of a.f.k. for their consistently fast and high quality subbing. As if releasing it within a few days wasnt fast enough, they went superspeed with this episode and released it in a matter of hours. I'm pretty certain everyone there lost ALOT of sleep over it; so, thank you very much.
I haven got off the train yet. A stellar episode this was. A fitting end to season1, because it had everything perfectly packed into 24+ minutes. While it didnt move me as much as 12, and didnt make me think as much as 13; this one had emo as well as logic. I loved how Haruhi was looking in that closed space, finally we see her actually and really happy. At first I was quite pissed because it seemed that she was being irresponsible (you know, pursuing her happiness, while ditching the rest of the world and the billions of other people and their happinesses) but then it struck me that I couldn't blame her, because she didnt know at all what was going on and what the consequences of her actions would be.
And I have to confess this. I'm digging for a Yuki x Kyon relationship. The scene on the computer.. when Yuki said that personally she wanted to see him again, how it'll be nice to and at the end! when she looked at him and said that she would not let them kill him.. *swoon* Seriously. Yuki wants Kyon
And I had to LOL and yet cry at the last Mikuru scene. The tears in her eyes as she ran to Kyon almost moved me to tears (I've been pretty prone to crying the past few days) and that "I didnt know it was star-shaped" had me LingOL. Mikuru FTW seriously. She was on top MOE~~~ form in this ep. 04:35 when she sidestepped away from Kyon Later when she was tearing and whimpering (?) at Haruhi's braiding. Now I can't choose between Mikuru or Yuki for the 2nd character poll.
Okay sorry for ranting. Seriously now.
Spoiler:
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Sphinx
I think everyone's overthinking this. The episode itself tells us a lot about what's going on and why. Starting at about 15:32...
Kyon and Haruhi begin to have this strange argument. I say strange because at first they seem to be talking past each other, and also because the topic of the argument is unconventional (how often do you debate with someone whether the world should continue to exist or not?)
Kyon asks Haruhi whether she wouldn't rather go back to the old world. He gives several reasons the new world would be undesirable: There doesn't seem to be anything to eat, the things Haruhi put so much effort into (SOS-Dan) don't exist anymore. Haruhi glibly deflects all these complaints because she has a feeling it will all work out in the end. At 16:06 Kyon says "I want to go back" and she hesitates for the first time.
Kyon's half of the argument takes a very interesting turn. He says "I found out something interesting after being thrown into this situation. I may complain all the time but I really liked how my life was." (emphasis added by me). That's a deep insight into Kyon's personality... Don't necessarily believe him when he complains about something. He complains about SOS-Dan perpetually but he never leaves. Is this because of some sense of duty to the human race? I believe he stays because he really likes the company, and he complains because that's just his personality. He gripes about Haruhi all the time too but that's no reason to think he dislikes her.
Then he mentions how much he's enjoyed being around his friends at school, including Mikuru, Itsuki, and Yuki (and surprisingly Asakura). Haruhi response is VERY interesting: "I'm sure we'll see them again. This world won't be covered in darkness forever. The sun will rise tomorrow." She's making a promise to Kyon to include those people in the new world. You could say the new world will be what Kyon wants it to be, at least in part.
Then Kyon flat out says that's not good enough. "I want to see the old them in the old world." Stop this new world business, it's not what I want. And THAT makes Haruhi let go of his hand and stop in her tracks.
"I don't get it. Weren't you fed up with that boring world? Didn't you want something more interesting to happen?" She looks like a kicked puppy. The most astounding part of this is... When has Kyon ever told her that he was bored with the old world? When has she ever said her goal was to make Kyon happy? I thought Haruhi was supposed to be the bored one! Isn't she a megalomaniac? Yet everything in her words and mannerisms here say she was trying to do this for Kyon, not herself!
Even more stunning is Kyon's response at 17:20: "I did indeed [want something interesting to happen]." This is completely against everything Kyon's told us to this point... He constantly gripes about just wanting to lead a normal life, about wishing he'd never met Haruhi. Hell, he even starts this episode with a monologue about how he wishes the time travelers, espers, and aliens would just tell Haruhi their stories and leave him alone! But there's really no reason for him to lie to Haruhi here... He's telling her the truth, and has been lying to us (and himself) this whole time.
The reason he wants to stay in the old world? Because there really are aliens, time travellers, and espers. Not because he wants to go back to a normal life, but because the old one was plenty abnormal already. He tells her that she's the center of the universe but doesn't realize it. That's not good enough for her... It's not good enough that everyone else thinks she's great. It's not good enough that Kyon's happy (though that's very, very important to her). She wants a reason to be happy in the old world too.
And then he kisses her.
I like Sphinx's clearheaded analysis. +rep To add to you, Kyon did hint at his want for a more interesting life. At 5:50 he tot: When I did feel a bit dissatisfied when nothing was going on.
So perhaps some of Haruhi's spirit lives in him. And thats what makes this odd ball pairing so wonderful as Prodigous expertly pointed out above.
Anyway I do want to make sense of why Kyon got blinked into the new world with Haruhi.
does the cat really talk? (I'm know it probably does judging from the "1st" ep but I don't think we've been given the answer to that yet o.O)
The flashback panels leading up to the kiss I thought were well done, seemed to fit with how kyon was talking and the music was a plus bringing up the tension =D
(course the ponytail bit ruined the mood a bit lol)
and
Quote:
Originally Posted by Devin
Does anyone know what song the ending theme for the fansub creditis?? It's so beautiful.
Author
) before he admits that.
Later when she was tearing and whimpering (?) at Haruhi's braiding. Now I can't choose between Mikuru or Yuki for the 2nd character poll. 
To add to you, Kyon did hint at his want for a more interesting life. At 5:50 he tot: When I did feel a bit dissatisfied when nothing was going on.
