Theories & future Speculation

[Paraden1989]

In the Skypiea arc, Eiichiro Oda made Skypiea a parallel to heaven, so I wouldn't be surprised if he made Fishman Island a parallel to Hell because it would be "under the sea."

I think that the future story plot for the Fishman Island Arc will be that a bunch of fishermen, from the Shabondy Islands, would be trying to take over Fishman Island. A battle between fishermen and Fishman with the Straw Hats in the middle of the whole thing!!!!!

[ellifeedn]

^What about the mermen?


As for my theory.

Spoiler:

I think that the metal that Kuma is made of, since he's a cyborg, is the metal Wapol made in his mini-arc story. I feel this is what ties Wapol back into the main story since there's a high chance of characters in mini-arc stories returning to the main story.

[Rahan]

Originally Posted by ellifeedn

As for my theory.

Spoiler:

I think that the metal that Kuma is made of, since he's a cyborg, is the metal Wapol made in his mini-arc story. I feel this is what ties Wapol back into the main story since there's a high chance of characters in mini-arc stories returning to the main story.

Spoiler:

I don't remember Wapol mini-story at all, but unless Kuma was turned into a cyborg very recently, it shouldn't be possible.
The Straw Hats have been travelling together for less than year. Kuma and his cyborg body should be much older.

[Thursaz]

Originally Posted by Paraden1989

In the Skypiea arc, Eiichiro Oda made Skypiea a parallel to heaven, so I wouldn't be surprised if he made Fishman Island a parallel to Hell because it would be "under the sea."

I think that the future story plot for the Fishman Island Arc will be that a bunch of fishermen, from the Shabondy Islands, would be trying to take over Fishman Island. A battle between fishermen and Fishman with the Straw Hats in the middle of the whole thing!!!!!

Actually, to your logic, Skypeia was a parallel to heaven, yes, but Oda had a hell hidden inside it in the form of Enel. It's possible that Fishman Island seemed like a hell (though I doubt it xD) but actually be a heaven in disguise. You know, Jimbei being a Shichibukai to protect Fishman Island from the World Government, or some such unlikely thing. Yes, I realise my own theory is unlikely. xD

Another theory of mine is that Smoker may join the Straw Hats, unlikely as that is. Smoker may discover something bad about the World Government and be kicked out of the Marines, thrown into the water to drown, after which Luffy might order Zoro to save him or something similar. After which he might, upon discovering Smoker's situation, ask him to join, prompting a shocked reaction from the crew. xD It's unlikely, but still!

[ellifeedn]

Originally Posted by Thursaz

Actually, to your logic, Skypeia was a parallel to heaven, yes, but Oda had a hell hidden inside it in the form of Enel. It's possible that Fishman Island seemed like a hell (though I doubt it xD) but actually be a heaven in disguise. You know, Jimbei being a Shichibukai to protect Fishman Island from the World Government, or some such unlikely thing. Yes, I realise my own theory is unlikely. xD

I actually like that theory. The whole heaven inside hell thing, it could be that the island looks like a really rough place filled with dangerous looking people and creatures, but the place is relatively peaceful.

I have this theory that perhaps the fishmen's hatred towards humans stem from the World Government possibly having control over the island, not just fishmen are superior to humans.

[kayote]

i could see that. also if and yes it is a big IF Jimbei is there than he would keep the bad out and protect the people. he could be the good Shichibukai out of the lot. seeing as all the ones that we have seen in detail all want more power.

Jimbei could have the same morals and values as the Strawhats.

this is way out there but it would be good to see.

[Paraden1989]

I think it would be awesome if the straw hats find out that Oz came from Elbaf, but it would really be funny to find out that Oz was an ancestor of ether Luffy or Jaguar D. Saul.

[BlackNhite]

A comrade of mine came up with this while we were watching the Funi DVD's.

The mini-arc where they meet Gaimon, the guy trapped in the treasure chest. It just seemed too out of place and insignificant to warrant any place in the storyline. But, as has been stated, Oda loves his foreshadowing and he tends to make even the most mundane events into major turning points/symbolism for later on.

When the Strawhats do get there, will there even be a treasure left? Will someone have beaten them to it? An even then, if there is nothing there, how would they all react? My comrade figured, what if Gaimon's little story was an overall representation of the story? I could see Oda doing it.

[ellifeedn]

This is something that I came up with when the crew set sailed for Fishmen Island in the manga (warning: there be some spoilers in this farfetched idea of mine) and while I made a few changes here and there to reflect the current events of the story, the original premise is still there.

Spoiler for some manga spoilers:

Now then, when the Strawhat crew finally reach the island, they'll find that the World Government has control over the place like Great Britain had control over India many years ago. They defend themselves against marines and fishmen until some people rescue them. The Strawhats agree to help the people save the island from WG based on some prophecy written in Poneglyph. I'm going to make the following events brief and to the point (because if I didn't, the post would be too long): Usopp leads the rebel forces to fight back the WG's forces, Zoro does a great miracle, the Red Line is destroyed and the WG headquarters falls with it, Usopp reveals the end of the plan he made and the island is safe from the falling boulders, and the Strawhats are now in the New World.

I know some will think that I'm copying things from Code Geass, and while I did watch it, I didn't start that series until the middle of its second season.

[iKumdo]

Spoiler for Long Plot "Theory":

As many of you already know, there was an “argument” (or rather, just me thrashing Phenomenol) about the plot importance of every arc and every chapter of One Piece. The main argument stems from the fact that several (or rather, just two) members on the OP forums believe that the Davy Back Fight was nothing more than a “filler” arc to the series. As someone who does a good deal of study in the field of fiction, I feel that I’m qualified to make a case about this. Prepare yourself for one of the most studious look at One Piece.

Let’s resolve an issue first: what “genre” does One Piece fall under? The most obvious answer is that One Piece is a “manga.” Manga is translated to “graphic novels” here in the United States, so we can argue that, technically, One Piece is a series of short novels. Therefore, it shouldn’t be much of a problem to compare the type of story progression in One Piece to any novel I see fit. The second genre that One Piece falls under is “Adventure.” One Piece has action, it has comedy, but in the end, it’s an adventure story.

What adventure novel can we compare One Piece to? How about The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn by Mark Twain? The general plot of this novel is rather similar to One Piece after all. One Piece is about a young lad named Luffy traveling on a boat with friends towards Raftel to obtain One Piece. Huckleberry Finn is a young lad traveling on a raft towards the North to help his friend Jim obtain freedom. It’s similar enough right? Now, I won’t make an essay of this comparison, but I will bring it up now and then to prove some points.

Now let’s get to the general plot stuff. The most important thing you should remember is that the plot never drives the story, the characters do, or rather, the character drives the story, not the other way around. Lot of people are confused about this, but when it comes to stories, especially novels, the characters are the most important part of the story, and these characters will be the ones to drive the plot. Without characters, there is no plot, but without plot, characters can still exist. This is why any form of character development is vital to the plot. This is also why anytime new characters are introduced, we can mark these points as important plot development regardless of what else happens. The importance of character is even more prominent in a manga series like One Piece where each individual arc can be considered a novel of its own.

Now that we know character is the most important thing, let’s look at the plot itself.

What is the general plot of One Piece, and adventure story? Simple! The Straw Hat Crew goes to an island, triggers an event, gets in and out of trouble, and finally, moves on to the next island. Sometimes the island is in the sky, and other times, the island is actually a ship, but the general idea is there. The way plot moves in any story is simple as well: they’re nothing more than a series of events connected to each other. Because of this, each event is important to the plot. If we were to simply break apart One Piece into nothing more than the basic plot, we’d have Luffy grabbing One Piece and nothing else. Similarly, Huckleberry Finn might as well take a ferry up north. Instead, Huckleberry Finn goes through events, which by themselves don’t seem as important to the general plot, but in the end, makes a hell of a book. Each of these events develops the characters, and as I’ve said, character drives the plot. As the characters are placed in events with conflicts, the plot slowly moves forward to reveal the overall plot. Regardless of how boring, and how seemingly useless they appear, these events are essential in their own way. Sure, we can pull out Davy Back and still have One Piece, but we can also strip apart nearly every arc, as well as completely delete some and still have One Piece plot. The thing to remember, in terms of general plot is concerned, is that the events that happen is what makes One Piece, or any novel, worth reading. It isn’t about the amazing plot twists; it’s all of the events on their own.

So then, let’s get to the fun part. Why was the Davy Back Fight important to the One Piece plot? To put it plainly: it’s an event that connects two other events in One Piece. It’s the same with the appearance of the two con artists in Huckleberry Finn. By itself, neither of these two events in their respective story provides a major plot event, but it’s an event that continues the story; it’s something that keeps the pacing of the story at the proper rhythm. It’s true that Luffy and company could’ve ran into Aokiji the moment they drop out of Skypiea, and the plot would’ve moved on, but it wouldn’t have moved on comfortably. Things would have been abrupt, and it wouldn’t have established a comfortable transition to go from Skypiea to Water 7 in that matter. If it was a movie, maybe that quick transition would’ve been forgiven, but One Piece is a novel, and a steady pacing is necessary to the movement of plot. Continual events need to happen to connect the plot properly. It’s also a way to establish a form of reality in an unreal world. It would seem very exhausting if big events happen too often too close.

The Davy Back Fight is also major “nakama spirit” arc. Before you run and yell that every arc is like that, consider that Davy Back is much more focused and concentrated on it. Besides that, anytime these events happen, it’s a form of character development, so each time is important. Otherwise, Oda only needs to do it once in the series. The crew almost loses Chopper, and the only way to win him back was through a team effort by two hateful rivals. The whole idea about losing and winning nakama is even more significant in this arc because the arc right after really tests the “nakama spirit” of the crew. Robin leaves and so does Ussop, and this arc is a good background to that.

In the end, the subtle importance of the Davy Back arc is open for debate, but the actual significance of the arc is clear. We can understand the thematic value of Davy Back as well as see the way in which in nicely establishes some of the conventions needed for any novel or graphic novel. Grab a book; grab Huckleberry Finn, and see how plot works in stories. The Davy Back might not be necessary to the general plot of One Piece, but the argument that states that is clearly missing a major point. To say that the events of Davy Back are unimportant is the same as saying that the history of Don Krieg or Alrong are all useless. In essence, they are; we can still get the story of One Piece without them, but the reason why One Piece works so well is because Oda knows that these are essential to make the series enjoyable to read. His ability to get the pacing right with rich, enjoyable characters and stories is what makes this work, and the Davy Back is a great example of this. Without the Davy Back, or any other damn arc in the manga, One Piece wouldn’t be as great as it is; the world of it, the story, the plot, the characters are all thoroughly developed in each arc. There is a good reason why One Piece has been on the top three manga list since 1998.

[Tsukou]

Originally Posted by iKumdo

Spoiler for Long Plot "Theory":

As many of you already know, there was an “argument” (or rather, just me thrashing Phenomenol) about the plot importance of every arc and every chapter of One Piece. The main argument stems from the fact that several (or rather, just two) members on the OP forums believe that the Davy Back Fight was nothing more than a “filler” arc to the series. As someone who does a good deal of study in the field of fiction, I feel that I’m qualified to make a case about this. Prepare yourself for one of the most studious look at One Piece.

Let’s resolve an issue first: what “genre” does One Piece fall under? The most obvious answer is that One Piece is a “manga.” Manga is translated to “graphic novels” here in the United States, so we can argue that, technically, One Piece is a series of short novels. Therefore, it shouldn’t be much of a problem to compare the type of story progression in One Piece to any novel I see fit. The second genre that One Piece falls under is “Adventure.” One Piece has action, it has comedy, but in the end, it’s an adventure story.

What adventure novel can we compare One Piece to? How about The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn by Mark Twain? The general plot of this novel is rather similar to One Piece after all. One Piece is about a young lad named Luffy traveling on a boat with friends towards Raftel to obtain One Piece. Huckleberry Finn is a young lad traveling on a raft towards the North to help his friend Jim obtain freedom. It’s similar enough right? Now, I won’t make an essay of this comparison, but I will bring it up now and then to prove some points.

Now let’s get to the general plot stuff. The most important thing you should remember is that the plot never drives the story, the characters do, or rather, the character drives the story, not the other way around. Lot of people are confused about this, but when it comes to stories, especially novels, the characters are the most important part of the story, and these characters will be the ones to drive the plot. Without characters, there is no plot, but without plot, characters can still exist. This is why any form of character development is vital to the plot. This is also why anytime new characters are introduced, we can mark these points as important plot development regardless of what else happens. The importance of character is even more prominent in a manga series like One Piece where each individual arc can be considered a novel of its own.

Now that we know character is the most important thing, let’s look at the plot itself.

What is the general plot of One Piece, and adventure story? Simple! The Straw Hat Crew goes to an island, triggers an event, gets in and out of trouble, and finally, moves on to the next island. Sometimes the island is in the sky, and other times, the island is actually a ship, but the general idea is there. The way plot moves in any story is simple as well: they’re nothing more than a series of events connected to each other. Because of this, each event is important to the plot. If we were to simply break apart One Piece into nothing more than the basic plot, we’d have Luffy grabbing One Piece and nothing else. Similarly, Huckleberry Finn might as well take a ferry up north. Instead, Huckleberry Finn goes through events, which by themselves don’t seem as important to the general plot, but in the end, makes a hell of a book. Each of these events develops the characters, and as I’ve said, character drives the plot. As the characters are placed in events with conflicts, the plot slowly moves forward to reveal the overall plot. Regardless of how boring, and how seemingly useless they appear, these events are essential in their own way. Sure, we can pull out Davy Back and still have One Piece, but we can also strip apart nearly every arc, as well as completely delete some and still have One Piece plot. The thing to remember, in terms of general plot is concerned, is that the events that happen is what makes One Piece, or any novel, worth reading. It isn’t about the amazing plot twists; it’s all of the events on their own.

So then, let’s get to the fun part. Why was the Davy Back Fight important to the One Piece plot? To put it plainly: it’s an event that connects two other events in One Piece. It’s the same with the appearance of the two con artists in Huckleberry Finn. By itself, neither of these two events in their respective story provides a major plot event, but it’s an event that continues the story; it’s something that keeps the pacing of the story at the proper rhythm. It’s true that Luffy and company could’ve ran into Aokiji the moment they drop out of Skypiea, and the plot would’ve moved on, but it wouldn’t have moved on comfortably. Things would have been abrupt, and it wouldn’t have established a comfortable transition to go from Skypiea to Water 7 in that matter. If it was a movie, maybe that quick transition would’ve been forgiven, but One Piece is a novel, and a steady pacing is necessary to the movement of plot. Continual events need to happen to connect the plot properly. It’s also a way to establish a form of reality in an unreal world. It would seem very exhausting if big events happen too often too close.

The Davy Back Fight is also major “nakama spirit” arc. Before you run and yell that every arc is like that, consider that Davy Back is much more focused and concentrated on it. Besides that, anytime these events happen, it’s a form of character development, so each time is important. Otherwise, Oda only needs to do it once in the series. The crew almost loses Chopper, and the only way to win him back was through a team effort by two hateful rivals. The whole idea about losing and winning nakama is even more significant in this arc because the arc right after really tests the “nakama spirit” of the crew. Robin leaves and so does Ussop, and this arc is a good background to that.

In the end, the subtle importance of the Davy Back arc is open for debate, but the actual significance of the arc is clear. We can understand the thematic value of Davy Back as well as see the way in which in nicely establishes some of the conventions needed for any novel or graphic novel. Grab a book; grab Huckleberry Finn, and see how plot works in stories. The Davy Back might not be necessary to the general plot of One Piece, but the argument that states that is clearly missing a major point. To say that the events of Davy Back are unimportant is the same as saying that the history of Don Krieg or Alrong are all useless. In essence, they are; we can still get the story of One Piece without them, but the reason why One Piece works so well is because Oda knows that these are essential to make the series enjoyable to read. His ability to get the pacing right with rich, enjoyable characters and stories is what makes this work, and the Davy Back is a great example of this. Without the Davy Back, or any other damn arc in the manga, One Piece wouldn’t be as great as it is; the world of it, the story, the plot, the characters are all thoroughly developed in each arc. There is a good reason why One Piece has been on the top three manga list since 1998.

Spoiler for plot theory question:

But basically what you're saying is, it's there, for the sake of being there. Since you mentioned that it is about as irrelevant as Don Krieg or Arlong's history, it brings me to why I think the Davy Back fight was really more fillerish, then actual substance of a substantial plot point/arc. Arlong's history is deeply tied into fishman history, which goes back to the Shichibukai, and even further with Fisher Tiger, along with the connections between Hachi and Rayleigh, and the Sun Mark.. and you understand what I'm saying.

The problem I had with the Davy Back arc, was that it was a completely self-contained arc, with no real connection to anything. Whether you read it or not, you have no problem reading the rest of the manga. There was no substantial connection between any points in the One Piece world. (Of course maybe Oda will go back to it, and show the relevance, but I'm doubtful of this).

I mean, maybe if you can show me how this arc was in any way meaningful to anything, outside of the arc itself. In every other arc, we see it as another insight into the world of One Piece, and how every story, every person is in someway connected to one another. But at the same time, I felt that this Davy Arc was so self-contained, that it pertained nothing to the One Piece world, aside from the One Piece crew, and the Davy Back crew. To me, this means that this section could easily be removed, and still have continuity in the series. Thus leading it to be more of a filler arc.

Now I understand when you say that characters ultimately drive the plot. But unfortunately, characters alone don't make a good story either. A good story in conjunction with well-made characters creates something amazing. If either is lacking, we can immediately tell. The one problem I have with your analogy is that One Piece and The Adventures of Huck Finn has a glaring difference. One Piece is as much about the characters as it is about the world the characters are living in. That's what makes it amazing, the world itself, is an entity. Obviously Luffy is the focal point of the One Piece manga, but I would most certainly pay to read how other stories were formed. About other crews, and other stories in the One Piece world.

Now you can also argue that Davy Back is like one of the stories of another crew. But the biggest problem is that I don't see how it connects to the rest of the world. I didn't really feel for the Foxy Pirates. I felt they didn't really have a deep and involved background, nor really interested. I mean, reading it may have given me a few chuckles, but overall it was dull.

While I'm not saying I could have done a better job, I just felt that maybe there was a better way to transition between Sorajima and Aokiji. I understand that it would have been abrupt to have from one, immediately to the next, but I mean, we see them running from one major plot line to the next all the time. I felt like this "filler" was to help relieve Oda and give him time to set up his thoughts for how he wanted the next arc to be, but it still doesn't feel like he put that much thought into it. And it felt like it was "filling" up time..

While I do agree that the idea of losing a nakama in this arc, helped bridge the losing of another nakama on the next, that felt a little odd. Doing a joke of losing a nakama, into really losing a nakama.. it just didn't sit well either.

Another problem I have with your statement is that you are giving the Davy Back Arc as much value as any other arc, which is an argument that I just can't see how you justify. You tell me that it's about nakama spirit, and a "preparation" for the upcoming upheaval that is the Strawhats Crew. But the twist would have been more shocking to me, if we didn't experience the Davy Back arc to begin with, and would have had a greater impact in my mind.

Just because there's a great work of ficton, doesn't mean it is perfect. That much is absolute. I mean, I've read my share of books, and there are times, when I ask myself was this section really necessary in the book, because it seemed to have little to no-relevance to the main plot line, except that it involved the main characters of the main plot line. But other then that, had no real significance towards anything, except for being. That doesn't mean I like the book any less, it just means, that's what I thought about it.

I think I've gone on too long, because I've been rambling for a while, but my main point is this.

With or without the Davy Back arc, the story would exist. The One Piece World has shown no relation to this arc, aside from the fact that the Strawhats accidently ran into it. Every other place, has shown a relevance into the One Piece World, and how it is formed. Tell me what relation this Davy Back arc had with the One Piece world, whether it be the future, or the history. Because I honestly see ZERO relation.. I see it as a self-contained story, with no relevance to anything outside of the self-contained story.

Finally, just good characters don't make for a good story, nor does a good story make good characters. They are needed to each other, as a symbiotic lifeform. To say that one creates the other, or vice-versa is in my opinion, wrong. The most interesting characters can do the most uninteresting things, and that would make for bad story. Davy Back arc simply had the good characters, in a self-involved uninteresting story, which became nothing in the series. That's a filler to me.

It's not even the fact that it was boring to me. It's because it simply had no relation to anything outside of the arc itself. No relation to the One Piece world which all other arcs had. It's only use was that of "character development" which frankly, I didn't see much of either, they remained basically the same.. going in and going out.. (but you can prove me wrong on that). The thematic value of the Davy Back arc was well established prior to the Davy Back arc. And the one piece story/world remained the same. We also learn no new pieces of information, about anything pertaining to anything outside of the arc itself. To me that sounds like a filler.

[BlackNhite]

Originally Posted by Tsukou

Spoiler for plot theory question:

But basically what you're saying is, it's there, for the sake of being there. Since you mentioned that it is about as irrelevant as Don Krieg or Arlong's history, it brings me to why I think the Davy Back fight was really more fillerish, then actual substance of a substantial plot point/arc. Arlong's history is deeply tied into fishman history, which goes back to the Shichibukai, and even further with Fisher Tiger, along with the connections between Hachi and Rayleigh, and the Sun Mark.. and you understand what I'm saying.

The problem I had with the Davy Back arc, was that it was a completely self-contained arc, with no real connection to anything. Whether you read it or not, you have no problem reading the rest of the manga. There was no substantial connection between any points in the One Piece world. (Of course maybe Oda will go back to it, and show the relevance, but I'm doubtful of this).

I mean, maybe if you can show me how this arc was in any way meaningful to anything, outside of the arc itself. In every other arc, we see it as another insight into the world of One Piece, and how every story, every person is in someway connected to one another. But at the same time, I felt that this Davy Arc was so self-contained, that it pertained nothing to the One Piece world, aside from the One Piece crew, and the Davy Back crew. To me, this means that this section could easily be removed, and still have continuity in the series. Thus leading it to be more of a filler arc.

Now I understand when you say that characters ultimately drive the plot. But unfortunately, characters alone don't make a good story either. A good story in conjunction with well-made characters creates something amazing. If either is lacking, we can immediately tell. The one problem I have with your analogy is that One Piece and The Adventures of Huck Finn has a glaring difference. One Piece is as much about the characters as it is about the world the characters are living in. That's what makes it amazing, the world itself, is an entity. Obviously Luffy is the focal point of the One Piece manga, but I would most certainly pay to read how other stories were formed. About other crews, and other stories in the One Piece world.

Now you can also argue that Davy Back is like one of the stories of another crew. But the biggest problem is that I don't see how it connects to the rest of the world. I didn't really feel for the Foxy Pirates. I felt they didn't really have a deep and involved background, nor really interested. I mean, reading it may have given me a few chuckles, but overall it was dull.

While I'm not saying I could have done a better job, I just felt that maybe there was a better way to transition between Sorajima and Aokiji. I understand that it would have been abrupt to have from one, immediately to the next, but I mean, we see them running from one major plot line to the next all the time. I felt like this "filler" was to help relieve Oda and give him time to set up his thoughts for how he wanted the next arc to be, but it still doesn't feel like he put that much thought into it. And it felt like it was "filling" up time..

While I do agree that the idea of losing a nakama in this arc, helped bridge the losing of another nakama on the next, that felt a little odd. Doing a joke of losing a nakama, into really losing a nakama.. it just didn't sit well either.

Another problem I have with your statement is that you are giving the Davy Back Arc as much value as any other arc, which is an argument that I just can't see how you justify. You tell me that it's about nakama spirit, and a "preparation" for the upcoming upheaval that is the Strawhats Crew. But the twist would have been more shocking to me, if we didn't experience the Davy Back arc to begin with, and would have had a greater impact in my mind.

Just because there's a great work of ficton, doesn't mean it is perfect. That much is absolute. I mean, I've read my share of books, and there are times, when I ask myself was this section really necessary in the book, because it seemed to have little to no-relevance to the main plot line, except that it involved the main characters of the main plot line. But other then that, had no real significance towards anything, except for being. That doesn't mean I like the book any less, it just means, that's what I thought about it.

I think I've gone on too long, because I've been rambling for a while, but my main point is this.

With or without the Davy Back arc, the story would exist. The One Piece World has shown no relation to this arc, aside from the fact that the Strawhats accidently ran into it. Every other place, has shown a relevance into the One Piece World, and how it is formed. Tell me what relation this Davy Back arc had with the One Piece world, whether it be the future, or the history. Because I honestly see ZERO relation.. I see it as a self-contained story, with no relevance to anything outside of the self-contained story.

Finally, just good characters don't make for a good story, nor does a good story make good characters. They are needed to each other, as a symbiotic lifeform. To say that one creates the other, or vice-versa is in my opinion, wrong. The most interesting characters can do the most uninteresting things, and that would make for bad story. Davy Back arc simply had the good characters, in a self-involved uninteresting story, which became nothing in the series. That's a filler to me.

It's not even the fact that it was boring to me. It's because it simply had no relation to anything outside of the arc itself. No relation to the One Piece world which all other arcs had. It's only use was that of "character development" which frankly, I didn't see much of either, they remained basically the same.. going in and going out.. (but you can prove me wrong on that). The thematic value of the Davy Back arc was well established prior to the Davy Back arc. And the one piece story/world remained the same. We also learn no new pieces of information, about anything pertaining to anything outside of the arc itself. To me that sounds like a filler.

And you know what, I'm just fine with the Davy Back Arc being just as you say it is. Not everything in the world needs to be inter-connected, that's just not realistic in itself and can get rather... repetitive after a while. It was nice to see something merely for the purpose of random entertainment.

Besides, you can't rule out that this arc may have connections outside the series. Maybe Oda's making allusions to some other media; some movie/game/etc that he happens to enjoy. Maybe this just came to him randomly through his dreams and he was compelled to go with it. Maybe he just did to waste time...

But at any rate, the series has yet to end so we can't be 100% on whether or not this arc will have some relevance later on in the plot. Maybe the only importance of this arc was meeting the Foxy Pirates because they'll be recurring characters much like Hachi was. After all, Oda does have a way of digging up the most miniscule of details half-way later into the series, just look at Brook and Laboon.

Not that I'm trying to disprove anyone or anything like that, I merely ask that we keep our minds open. The possibilities are endless...

[iKumdo]

Originally Posted by Tsukou

Spoiler for plot theory question:

But basically what you're saying is, it's there, for the sake of being there. Since you mentioned that it is about as irrelevant as Don Krieg or Arlong's history, it brings me to why I think the Davy Back fight was really more fillerish, then actual substance of a substantial plot point/arc. Arlong's history is deeply tied into fishman history, which goes back to the Shichibukai, and even further with Fisher Tiger, along with the connections between Hachi and Rayleigh, and the Sun Mark.. and you understand what I'm saying.

The problem I had with the Davy Back arc, was that it was a completely self-contained arc, with no real connection to anything. Whether you read it or not, you have no problem reading the rest of the manga. There was no substantial connection between any points in the One Piece world. (Of course maybe Oda will go back to it, and show the relevance, but I'm doubtful of this).

I mean, maybe if you can show me how this arc was in any way meaningful to anything, outside of the arc itself. In every other arc, we see it as another insight into the world of One Piece, and how every story, every person is in someway connected to one another. But at the same time, I felt that this Davy Arc was so self-contained, that it pertained nothing to the One Piece world, aside from the One Piece crew, and the Davy Back crew. To me, this means that this section could easily be removed, and still have continuity in the series. Thus leading it to be more of a filler arc.

Now I understand when you say that characters ultimately drive the plot. But unfortunately, characters alone don't make a good story either. A good story in conjunction with well-made characters creates something amazing. If either is lacking, we can immediately tell. The one problem I have with your analogy is that One Piece and The Adventures of Huck Finn has a glaring difference. One Piece is as much about the characters as it is about the world the characters are living in. That's what makes it amazing, the world itself, is an entity. Obviously Luffy is the focal point of the One Piece manga, but I would most certainly pay to read how other stories were formed. About other crews, and other stories in the One Piece world.

Now you can also argue that Davy Back is like one of the stories of another crew. But the biggest problem is that I don't see how it connects to the rest of the world. I didn't really feel for the Foxy Pirates. I felt they didn't really have a deep and involved background, nor really interested. I mean, reading it may have given me a few chuckles, but overall it was dull.

While I'm not saying I could have done a better job, I just felt that maybe there was a better way to transition between Sorajima and Aokiji. I understand that it would have been abrupt to have from one, immediately to the next, but I mean, we see them running from one major plot line to the next all the time. I felt like this "filler" was to help relieve Oda and give him time to set up his thoughts for how he wanted the next arc to be, but it still doesn't feel like he put that much thought into it. And it felt like it was "filling" up time..

While I do agree that the idea of losing a nakama in this arc, helped bridge the losing of another nakama on the next, that felt a little odd. Doing a joke of losing a nakama, into really losing a nakama.. it just didn't sit well either.

Another problem I have with your statement is that you are giving the Davy Back Arc as much value as any other arc, which is an argument that I just can't see how you justify. You tell me that it's about nakama spirit, and a "preparation" for the upcoming upheaval that is the Strawhats Crew. But the twist would have been more shocking to me, if we didn't experience the Davy Back arc to begin with, and would have had a greater impact in my mind.

Just because there's a great work of ficton, doesn't mean it is perfect. That much is absolute. I mean, I've read my share of books, and there are times, when I ask myself was this section really necessary in the book, because it seemed to have little to no-relevance to the main plot line, except that it involved the main characters of the main plot line. But other then that, had no real significance towards anything, except for being. That doesn't mean I like the book any less, it just means, that's what I thought about it.

I think I've gone on too long, because I've been rambling for a while, but my main point is this.

With or without the Davy Back arc, the story would exist. The One Piece World has shown no relation to this arc, aside from the fact that the Strawhats accidently ran into it. Every other place, has shown a relevance into the One Piece World, and how it is formed. Tell me what relation this Davy Back arc had with the One Piece world, whether it be the future, or the history. Because I honestly see ZERO relation.. I see it as a self-contained story, with no relevance to anything outside of the self-contained story.

Finally, just good characters don't make for a good story, nor does a good story make good characters. They are needed to each other, as a symbiotic lifeform. To say that one creates the other, or vice-versa is in my opinion, wrong. The most interesting characters can do the most uninteresting things, and that would make for bad story. Davy Back arc simply had the good characters, in a self-involved uninteresting story, which became nothing in the series. That's a filler to me.

It's not even the fact that it was boring to me. It's because it simply had no relation to anything outside of the arc itself. No relation to the One Piece world which all other arcs had. It's only use was that of "character development" which frankly, I didn't see much of either, they remained basically the same.. going in and going out.. (but you can prove me wrong on that). The thematic value of the Davy Back arc was well established prior to the Davy Back arc. And the one piece story/world remained the same. We also learn no new pieces of information, about anything pertaining to anything outside of the arc itself. To me that sounds like a filler.

Spoiler for response:

As I have mentioned before, it is obvious that Davy Back Fight is not as significant or interesting to the main plot, but its presence is about as necessary as any other arc in the story.

As stupid as this might sound, it's rather true that good characters with good conflicts create good enough of a story. When you read books like David Copperfield, that's pretty much what you get. Story is driven by characters and their conflict, and that creates good plot. There doesn't have to be any convoluted twists, but a good climax would be great. Davy Back fight had good characters (if you don't like the Foxys, at least you had the main SH crew) with a conflict.

I understand your argument about Arlong's connection with the Shichibukai, but what about Don Krieg? What about Kuro? Think about every villain on the East Blue; none of them were quite necessary. These villains, and their past were used to give us a deeper look into the characters that would join the crew as well as a look at the world of One Piece.

The Davy Back Fight also did the same, though it was less "flashy." We get to see more about the world of One Piece. Another weird island, another aspect (the Davy Back Fight), and another look into the characters (the SHs could've just destroyed the Foxy crew instead of participating in the games).

I've also mentioned the necessary of establishing a form of "realism" in an unreal world. Constantly going through massive events in the story can get tedious and seem unreal.

Overall, it's too early to determine the true value of the Davy Back arc, but currently, it stands as a necessary arc. Not because of its significance to the main plot, but because of the way it establishes the story and the way it satisfies the conventions of novels. You might think that there are points in the novels you read that seem unnecessary, but they're all there for a good reason. I don't know if you have, but try looking into creative writing books/classes. Simply reading books is not enough to understand the aspects of novels.

[Rinji]

Originally Posted by BlackNhite

And you know what, I'm just fine with the Davy Back Arc being just as you say it is. Not everything in the world needs to be inter-connected, that's just not realistic in itself and can get rather... repetitive after a while. It was nice to see something merely for the purpose of random entertainment.

Actually it looked more like he made that fight just to continue the joke of Luffy gaining different attributes from random things. Such as his fight with Crocodile, and Water Luffy, then there was his fight with Oz as Nightmare Luffy.

I think the funniest thing about these are that the villains actually call him by these names... I mean who would really think to start calling him "Mizu Luffy"?

[Tsukou]

Originally Posted by iKumdo

Spoiler for response:

As I have mentioned before, it is obvious that Davy Back Fight is not as significant or interesting to the main plot, but its presence is about as necessary as any other arc in the story.

As stupid as this might sound, it's rather true that good characters with good conflicts create good enough of a story. When you read books like David Copperfield, that's pretty much what you get. Story is driven by characters and their conflict, and that creates good plot. There doesn't have to be any convoluted twists, but a good climax would be great. Davy Back fight had good characters (if you don't like the Foxys, at least you had the main SH crew) with a conflict.

I understand your argument about Arlong's connection with the Shichibukai, but what about Don Krieg? What about Kuro? Think about every villain on the East Blue; none of them were quite necessary. These villains, and their past were used to give us a deeper look into the characters that would join the crew as well as a look at the world of One Piece.

The Davy Back Fight also did the same, though it was less "flashy." We get to see more about the world of One Piece. Another weird island, another aspect (the Davy Back Fight), and another look into the characters (the SHs could've just destroyed the Foxy crew instead of participating in the games).

I've also mentioned the necessary of establishing a form of "realism" in an unreal world. Constantly going through massive events in the story can get tedious and seem unreal.

Overall, it's too early to determine the true value of the Davy Back arc, but currently, it stands as a necessary arc. Not because of its significance to the main plot, but because of the way it establishes the story and the way it satisfies the conventions of novels. You might think that there are points in the novels you read that seem unnecessary, but they're all there for a good reason. I don't know if you have, but try looking into creative writing books/classes. Simply reading books is not enough to understand the aspects of novels.

Spoiler:

I think this comes back to a difference of opinion whether or not it was necessary. The thing about Kuro is that he was more of a villain to introduce Usopp. Which obviously is a major character.

I just think that even if this one arc disappeared, it would have no effect on the rest of the story. And while you say that it adds realism in an unrealistic world, I always felt this was displayed more in any of the side characters in any arc. Or even in the non-superman level characters of the main crew. But I can understand what you mean.

But the one problem I have with your point is, outside of my literature classes in highschool/college (basic courses) level, who I'd guess would be the majority of the readers of this kind of action adventure fiction genre, I guess we just don't understand why it's necessary, nor how it establishes the story in a conventional novel.

All I know is, I remember reading One Piece from the beginning, and literally got so mesmerized, that I didn't stop until that arc. I mean, maybe it is something only someone who's studied a little more indepth in the world of fiction novels, but One Piece always struck to me as something if 100 people read, 100 people would understand. There's always deep and engrossing novels that very few who read it, can understand the whole thing, especially just reading it once.

I mean, I studied a lot about Roman culture and stories rooted into mythology from both Rome and Greek, moreso then western fiction(so my main background is mainly mythological), and I could probably see some correlation to what you say, but I can also see the opposite. I just think this arc's story telling fell flat, and I'm still not quite bought on it's significance, but I honestly think this is a difference of opinion, rather then fact. But then again, I'm not all that educated on literature.

[iKumdo]

Originally Posted by Tsukou

Spoiler:

I think this comes back to a difference of opinion whether or not it was necessary. The thing about Kuro is that he was more of a villain to introduce Usopp. Which obviously is a major character.

I just think that even if this one arc disappeared, it would have no effect on the rest of the story. And while you say that it adds realism in an unrealistic world, I always felt this was displayed more in any of the side characters in any arc. Or even in the non-superman level characters of the main crew. But I can understand what you mean.

But the one problem I have with your point is, outside of my literature classes in highschool/college (basic courses) level, who I'd guess would be the majority of the readers of this kind of action adventure fiction genre, I guess we just don't understand why it's necessary, nor how it establishes the story in a conventional novel.

All I know is, I remember reading One Piece from the beginning, and literally got so mesmerized, that I didn't stop until that arc. I mean, maybe it is something only someone who's studied a little more indepth in the world of fiction novels, but One Piece always struck to me as something if 100 people read, 100 people would understand. There's always deep and engrossing novels that very few who read it, can understand the whole thing, especially just reading it once.

I mean, I studied a lot about Roman culture and stories rooted into mythology from both Rome and Greek, moreso then western fiction(so my main background is mainly mythological), and I could probably see some correlation to what you say, but I can also see the opposite. I just think this arc's story telling fell flat, and I'm still not quite bought on it's significance, but I honestly think this is a difference of opinion, rather then fact. But then again, I'm not all that educated on literature.

Spoiler:

I can understand that you didn't like the arc; it's definitely not a favorite of most One Piece fans out there. Even I just kind of liked it, but that doesn't make this arc any less important.

What you, and some others are thinking is that Davy Back Fight needs to have some sort of major plot points to be worth anything, but it's not like that. As you said, Kuro was just used to introduce Ussop, but Ussop can definitely be introduced without Kuro. But the fact that Kuro was there, the way he was created was fantastic. The characteristics, the way the story unfolded was well done. This is what makes novels and stories like One Piece very interesting. Honestly, did we need that long conspiracy that Kuro created? Definitely not, but the characteristics of it worked so well. It's really about the details, the way in which the story moves.

I know that the Davy Back Fight has no major plot twists or moments like some of the other arcs, but its placement and the way it worked was very well done. In my opinion, it was a lot better than Skypiea, which is closer to being a filler arc. Think about it, how important will islands in the sky be in the end? But the fact that there are islands in the sky, the fact that the SHs went there, it all makes a fantastic story doesn't it? Doesn't it make the One Piece world so much more interesting?

[Tsukou]

Originally Posted by iKumdo

Spoiler:

I can understand that you didn't like the arc; it's definitely not a favorite of most One Piece fans out there. Even I just kind of liked it, but that doesn't make this arc any less important.

What you, and some others are thinking is that Davy Back Fight needs to have some sort of major plot points to be worth anything, but it's not like that. As you said, Kuro was just used to introduce Ussop, but Ussop can definitely be introduced without Kuro. But the fact that Kuro was there, the way he was created was fantastic. The characteristics, the way the story unfolded was well done. This is what makes novels and stories like One Piece very interesting. Honestly, did we need that long conspiracy that Kuro created? Definitely not, but the characteristics of it worked so well. It's really about the details, the way in which the story moves.

I know that the Davy Back Fight has no major plot twists or moments like some of the other arcs, but its placement and the way it worked was very well done. In my opinion, it was a lot better than Skypiea, which is closer to being a filler arc. Think about it, how important will islands in the sky be in the end? But the fact that there are islands in the sky, the fact that the SHs went there, it all makes a fantastic story doesn't it? Doesn't it make the One Piece world so much more interesting?

Spoiler:

I may I agree that Kuro wasn't necessary, but nevertheless, Kuro became the reason Usopp stepped up, and showed his guts to the crew. And so, while it may not have been necessary, it became necessary.

And I know you didn't like Sorajima that much, but that was arc was more then that.. It began with Bellamy, a member of Don Flamingo's "New Era", along with Blackbeard, and then with Montblanc Norland, and his whole story, which tied into Sorajima, as well as introducing what kind of crew Gol D Roger's had, because the old king had met them, and partied. Then with a hint at Gol D Roger's ability to hear all things. It even introduced how Goin Merry's time was about to finish. I guess there was just more foreshadowing in the arc, than with Davy Back, which created many questions.

I guess I hafta read the arc again, maybe I'll like it the more I read it. Gotta read it from a different perspective. But my main point, wasn't really to argue with you about the significance, but rather, I saw what you read, and was agreeing with the other guy's points, but when you rebutted, you didn't really say why.. and just kinda called the guy an idiot. I can understand if you dislike the guy, but at least argue the issue.. (don't get me wrong, i don't know the guy at all, which is why when i read it, you came off a little wrong)

But I mean hey, whatever, I got nothin against you, because of our different backgrounds, we read the same piece of work, and think different thinks. But that's what literature is, and that's why book clubs can actually be fun. It's open to interpretation. So, at least I got to see what you thought about the arc, and why you deemed it important. At least you took the time, so no hard feelings, haha. Any insult I may have directed at you, sorry about that.

[OtseisRagnarok]

Originally Posted by Rinji

Actually it looked more like he made that fight just to continue the joke of Luffy gaining different attributes from random things. Such as his fight with Crocodile, and Water Luffy, then there was his fight with Oz as Nightmare Luffy.

I think the funniest thing about these are that the villains actually call him by these names... I mean who would really think to start calling him "Mizu Luffy"?

That was a really good running gag, too. We need to have more Luffys. What with upcoming events, why not Sexy Luffy? (Female form, duh!)

[iKumdo]

Originally Posted by Tsukou

Spoiler:

I may I agree that Kuro wasn't necessary, but nevertheless, Kuro became the reason Usopp stepped up, and showed his guts to the crew. And so, while it may not have been necessary, it became necessary.

And I know you didn't like Sorajima that much, but that was arc was more then that.. It began with Bellamy, a member of Don Flamingo's "New Era", along with Blackbeard, and then with Montblanc Norland, and his whole story, which tied into Sorajima, as well as introducing what kind of crew Gol D Roger's had, because the old king had met them, and partied. Then with a hint at Gol D Roger's ability to hear all things. It even introduced how Goin Merry's time was about to finish. I guess there was just more foreshadowing in the arc, than with Davy Back, which created many questions.

I guess I hafta read the arc again, maybe I'll like it the more I read it. Gotta read it from a different perspective. But my main point, wasn't really to argue with you about the significance, but rather, I saw what you read, and was agreeing with the other guy's points, but when you rebutted, you didn't really say why.. and just kinda called the guy an idiot. I can understand if you dislike the guy, but at least argue the issue.. (don't get me wrong, i don't know the guy at all, which is why when i read it, you came off a little wrong)

But I mean hey, whatever, I got nothin against you, because of our different backgrounds, we read the same piece of work, and think different thinks. But that's what literature is, and that's why book clubs can actually be fun. It's open to interpretation. So, at least I got to see what you thought about the arc, and why you deemed it important. At least you took the time, so no hard feelings, haha. Any insult I may have directed at you, sorry about that.

Spoiler:

I never said I didn't like the Sorajima arc, but my argument is that you can strip apart any of the arcs and easily nickpick things that are "unnecessary," but then it wouldn't be One Piece anymore.

As for the argument in the other thread, I can't go and see what I wrote anymore, but I'm pretty sure i pointed out the obvious necessity of each arc in terms of how literature worked. The reason why I didn't go in depth with is because it was off topic, and more importantly, try to reason with Phenom, and you'll quickly see how well it turns out. Read his previous posts, and you'll see that he's not very logical. As I have mentioned, there is a clear reason why he is on the ignore list of so many.

[yaluckyboy]

I think that Franky will find a special Devil Fruit that would allow him to turn his body into any kind of mechanical tool

I have writen a post about my idea for the Meka Meka no Mi in the make your own Devil Fruit

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