Mahou Senki Lyrical Nanoha Force Manga Discussion

[Justin_Brett]

Well Arnage kind of blows the idea of them having hidden scars out of the water with her outfit. Deville, too, unless he's got it 'down there'.

[FRS]

I always got the impression that their infection was more mental problem ( going berserk and bloodlust) than physical, Toma vision and mind process was altered but otherwise his body is still functionning.

[Koveras Alvane]

Originally Posted by FRS

I always got the impression that their infection was more mental problem ( going berserk and bloodlust) than physical, Toma vision and mind process was altered but otherwise his body is still functionning.

Implying that mental process are more than "just" the mind-bogglingly complex chemistry of a very physical brain.

[Keroko]

Mental and physical always are two different things in fiction.

Still, the whole super regeneration, body toughness and 'will turn into a blob if no killing' show its very much a physical thing.

[itanshi1]

Did i miss a note here that Heimdall is added to the usual location?

I was thinking some of the scenes were in a different order

[Fluegel]

This is starting to remind me of MGS4 all over again.

When in doubt of any explanation,

Nano-Machines.
Nano-Machines Everywhere.

[Sheba]

To excuse super-powers, in the 1950s-1960 something, the excuse was RADIOACTIVITY. Between 1970s-1990s, it was mainly GENETICS. Now, it is NANOMACHINES.

[Arcc]

I think that "a wizard did it" is still totally applicable in this context.

[Keroko]

"MAGIC!" will always be a viable excuse, mostly because magic can't be debunked by science. Since, you know, "MAGIC!"

[Justin_Brett]

Originally Posted by Arcc

I think that "a wizard did it" is still totally applicable in this context.

For the people who are immune to magic.

But yeah, I wouldn't worry about it too much. The Hucks only have these powers so they can actually pose a threat to the good guys in the first place, really, so they're not meant to be questioned.

Like Doomsday. He was created just to kill Superman, and at the time had no backstory at all.

[Tiresias]

Originally Posted by Arcc

I think that "a wizard did it" is still totally applicable in this context.

Perhaps. Still, I couldn't help but think that Tsuzuki's trying to do Star Wars' Midichlorian approach here...

Maybe it's the matter of wording. There's been more techy words instead of wizardy ones lately. Using the word 'Virus' instead of 'Curse' for instance.

[Justin_Brett]

...well now I can't unsee that.

"Even Curren doesn't have an Eclipse virus count that high!"

[00-Raiser]

You guys are talking like the Eclipse is some kind of deus ex machine plot device.

The virus was mentioned early on and it has a clear set of abilities that the story has stuck to the whole way. It's not like the Huckebein keep pulling out random super powers that are hand waved by "Oh, it's just another effect of the virus!"

[Justin_Brett]

Oh, I was saying the only reason the Virus makes them super strong as well as dependant on killing was so they could fight Section Six. Which is true, in much the same way Doomsday is super-strong so he could fight Superman on equal fighting.

The other guys were just complaining that it doesn't really have any down-sides for them, which I kind of agree with. It's not like they're going to get withdrawals in the middle of a fight.

[Keroko]

Originally Posted by Tiresias

Perhaps. Still, I couldn't help but think that Tsuzuki's trying to do Star Wars' Midichlorian approach here...

A detail people often tend to forget is that midichlorians don't change anything about the Force itself, its merely how Jedi connect to it. Ever since Empire we knew that being a Jedi was something biological, midichlorians merely explained what that biological thing is.

Midichlorians in Nanohaverse? We already have them. They're called Linker Cores.

[00-Raiser]

Originally Posted by Justin_Brett

Oh, I was saying the only reason the Virus makes them super strong as well as dependant on killing was so they could fight Section Six. Which is true, in much the same way Doomsday is super-strong so he could fight Superman on equal fighting.

The other guys were just complaining that it doesn't really have any down-sides for them, which I kind of agree with. It's not like they're going to get withdrawals in the middle of a fight.

Turning into a pile of goo if you don't kill is a pretty big downside.

And the virus isn't the only thing they have going for them. Section 6 has the means to hurt them and potentially beat them. The strike cannons were shown to work on them, Heimdall would have worked on them too. And yet, the Huckebein are still able to put up a fight and score some wins. Beyond their powers they do have their own set of combat skills.

Compare to Accelerator from Index. All he had going for him was his super power, but once Thoma negated it, Accelerator was a super weakling.

I suppose the Doomsday comparison is apt, in that Superman was so ridiculously broken himself that they needed to make Doomsday since no one else could beat him. Same kinda thing going on in Nanoha, where the protagonists were insanely powerful and unbeatable by season 3.

[Tiresias]

Originally Posted by Justin_Brett

...well now I can't unsee that.

"Even Curren doesn't have an Eclipse virus count that high!"

Well they already has some kind of power meter back at season one, when they still describe it with numbers instead of power levels...

Don't try to frighten us with your magical's ways. Your sad devotion to that ancient religion has not helped you to protect the teens or given you clairvoyance enough to find the Huckebeins' hidden ship-

Originally Posted by Keroko

A detail people often tend to forget is that midichlorians don't change anything about the Force itself, its merely how Jedi connect to it. Ever since Empire we knew that being a Jedi was something biological, midichlorians merely explained what that biological thing is.

Midichlorians in Nanohaverse? We already have them. They're called Linker Cores.

I was under the impression that Linker Cores are metaphysical. And my dissatisfaction with the midichlorian thing was that it reduces the mysticism out of it (science-y word). I always prefer to know the rules and limitations on magic or the Force, but that's just to avoid "hey wait, why must [INSERT DRAMATIC EVENT] happened if he has the power of x to do y?" moments; having science explaining all in a story that was supposed to combine magic and science is a bit disappointing

Originally Posted by 00-Raiser

And the virus isn't the only thing they have going for them. Section 6 has the means to hurt them and potentially beat them. The strike cannons were shown to work on them, Heimdall would have worked on them too. And yet, the Huckebein are still able to put up a fight and score some wins. Beyond their powers they do have their own set of combat skills.

Compare to Accelerator from Index. All he had going for him was his super power, but once Thoma negated it, Accelerator was a super weakling.

Wait, for that Accelerator comparison to work shouldn't we go to the hypothetical scenario where the Hucks get their power negated?

And by your example of course the Hucks would win - it's like how Section 6 now has T-34/85's, but the Hucks has King Tigers. Can Section 6 do some damage? Yes. Does their stats compare equally? No.

Section 6 might be able to reduce the disadvantage by dropping the "shining armor knight" act and do smart things, like ambushes, illusions or traps, but that would be breaking character so good luck with that, none of the good guys had ever do those except for Chrono (who got kicked upstairs) and- where's Teana again?

...probably off to a beach photoshoot along with Steed...

[Justin_Brett]

Not for people that have no problem at all with killing, it's not.

Logic says that even if the Hucks have raw power, most of them probably aren't very talented with their abilities. And no, the Strike Cannons don't really work on them. They just regenerate. Or not get harmed at all, in Curren's case.

(Also Superman isn't really that broken, people who don't pay any attention to him just think that.)

[Arcc]

Originally Posted by Justin_Brett

Logic says that even if the Hucks have raw power, most of them probably aren't very talented with their abilities.

You say that word so much. I do not think it means what you think it means.

[Akiyoshi]

Originally Posted by 00-Raiser

It's not like the Huckebein keep pulling out random super powers that are hand waved by "Oh, it's just another effect of the virus!"

Which is exactly more or less the way Cypha portrayed those powers in her battle with Signum.

Signum: I'll chop your arm OFF!
Cypha: surprise! i have super regeneration and also a very tough body!
*Laevateinn cracks*
Agito: Then have this super multi target firebal spell!
Cypha: Useless! I have full anti-magic now haha!
Signum: Then taste the edge of my sword.
Cypha: LOL no, bladed weapons also didn't work on me...

While it's true that their powers don't make them immune against "everything" they are effectively created to counter the main cast specifically, and while it's true the AEC was designed to fight them and is able to do some damage, it also proved to be insufficient for a true method of defeating these guys. So far the Huckebein are not fighting the heroes seriously, they're only shrugging off anything launched at them by this point with the only exception of the Heimdall(and that's only because Hayate exploits a loophole) ...and Curren end up laughing at that too xDU. So yeah basically they only exist to kick the heroes butts to the next morning.

Originally Posted by Justin_Brett

The other guys were just complaining that it doesn't really have any down-sides for them, which I kind of agree with. It's not like they're going to get withdrawals in the middle of a fight.

Originally Posted by 00-Raiser

Turning into a pile of goo if you don't kill is a pretty big downside.

But not an "in-fight" downside, they didn't have a truly exploitable "weakpoint", sure if they not kill they will go mad and die as a lump of meat. But other than that, they're invincible battle-wise. Impervious to most damage, and able to recover very damn quickly for the rare cases they end up injured, enhaced strenght, good firepower and the ability to "eclipse" magic. They can shrug off being freaking dissmembered for Pete's sake! Yeah, probably said abilities can have a limit or some drawback but that wasn't stablished yet, for the moment there's no real way of taking down these guys.

Originally Posted by 00-Raiser

Beyond their powers they do have their own set of combat skills.

And we see how well said combat skills "helped" Cypha against Signum right xD? OK, teasing aside they do have some good abilities of their own and are capable fighters, but most of them rely heavily on their Eclipse-enhaced powers to fight their battles and i'm pretty sure that if they get de-eclipsed their combat capability will be greatly reduced during the first period after the de-powering until they re-learn to fight without the haxed powers.