Psycho-Pass - Episode 8 Discussion / Poll

[Jimmy C]

Also on Rikako's lack of originality, I bet she didn't come up with the idea to use plastinization on her own either.

[Mighty_frog]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

A couple points here:

1. As critical as I've been of the Sibyl System, I'm inclined to give it a big benefit of the doubt here (because it fits several plot points better that way). In other words, I think that the Sibyl System does a very good job of preventing/stopping crime. So much so, in fact, that your average person probably doesn't see crime much at all. While the Sibyl System spares no mercy for minors, such age distinctions may still be prevalent amongst the people because minors (and people in general) so rarely "get Dominated" like that, particularly in a public setting.

2. The Headmaster may have been legitimately concerned over what affect having a room absolutely splattered with the bloods and guts of a killed classmate would have on the rest of these female students...


You know, the Dominator's method of killing really is absolutely horrible for any sort of public setting. People will tend to panic at least a bit just at the sounds of gunshots, of course, but seeing someone blown apart Dominator-style must be very traumatizing to most people. You'd think that the gun would have a less gorey method of killing (instant electrocution, say). While I can see how Gen wanted to make things grittier this way, I think on the whole it's this extremely gorey killing method that seems out of place in a world so deeply concerned with psychological health.

Good points. I'd probably be more bothered by this if the Dominator wasnt such a darn cool weapon

The grotesque way that the Dominator handles it's business may have been done deliberately as a deterrent. Something along the lines of "hey, keep your shit in check or else next time it'll be you getting mopped up off the floor". The psychological trauma of seeing someone get blown to bits may not be a problem since mental care medicine is so prevalent in their society. Maybe its called the Dominator for a reason, not just because thats a badass name for a gun lol.

[Endscape]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Well, I found her motives against the school clear and understandable (these were stated in the early part of the episode). It was fairly conventional feminism, really ("This school produces girls to be good, little housewives that lead sad, boring lives").

And that's the problem - It's too conventional. You're right, it's not very original at all. It's not even particularly controversial.

Yes, she's motivated by personal revenge - For her father, and against the school. It is small, and it lacks an impressive message of her own.

I agree about her grievance against the school being too conventional.

In fact it was so conventional it lacked reality. Not that the message isn't valid, but she presented it as if it was complete and objective truth. I don't doubt that some of the parents sent their children there for that purpose, but I'm sure that not all of them did. That theory was a little too cut and dry.

That's part of her problem. She's stuck in her own little world, her own way of thinking, that isn't even purely hers, but a degraded copy of her father's ideas. That's not so bad by itself, but the way she does that and cries out for attention, as Kogami noted, is really pretty sad. It's no wonder Kogami noted that the killer has a young mental age. She's a child, a gifted child pretending to be a adult that becomes an average person when they do become an adult.

Makishima must have been watching her to see if that was true or if she was better than that, but she failed.

[Polarpew]

good episode this week, anyone else notice we got an extended version of the ending theme this week? was pretty nice

[Hiroi Sekai]

I wonder how much Taketatsu Ayana is making on this series.

Great episode, exciting as always.

[Gohan78]

This episode was good but there were certain inconsistencies that didn't sit well with me.

1. The existence of a prison for high-PP criminals doesn't make sense in this setting. If these people are judged irredeemable by Sibyl, they should be executed (enforcers are an exception because they are still useful to the society).

2. In an attempt to show Kogami's exceptional detective skills, Gen made the other inspectors/enforcers look too dumb. Not even suspecting that the culprit might be someone living in the school, really? Not to mention that Rikako easily managed to escape the police blockade.

3. The principal trying to stop Kogami because "she is still a minor" was weird. The principal should know that the Dominator's judgment is absolute. I can only chalk it up to the principal being worried about having one of his student "dominated" in school.

4. For the first time we saw Makishima outright killing one of his subordinates because she disappointed him. I hoped he wouldn't fall into such a cartoony villain role. He could have let the police slaughter Rikako instead of helping her escape, only to kill her later. And the Titus Andronicus quotes went on for too long.

Despite these flaws, I still voted the episode a 7 out of 10. P-P has been constantly good but never excellent IMHO. I hope that Gen is saving the best for last.

[Quadratic]

Originally Posted by Gohan78

This episode was good but there were certain inconsistencies that didn't sit well with me.

1. The existence of a prison for high-PP criminals doesn't make sense in this setting. If these people are judged irredeemable by Sibyl, they should be executed (enforcers are an exception because they are still useful to the society).

2. In an attempt to show Kogami's exceptional detective skills, Gen made the other inspectors/enforcers look too dumb. Not even suspecting that the culprit might be someone living in the school, really? Not to mention that Rikako easily managed to escape the police blockade.

3. The principal trying to stop Kogami because "she is still a minor" was weird. The principal should know that the Dominator's judgment is absolute. I can only chalk it up to the principal being worried about having one of his student "dominated" in school.

4. For the first time we saw Makishima outright killing one of his subordinates because she disappointed him. I hoped he wouldn't fall into such a cartoony villain role. He could have let the police slaughter Rikako instead of helping her escape, only to kill her later. And the Titus Andronicus quotes went on for too long.

Despite these flaws, I still voted the episode a 7 out of 10. P-P has been constantly good but never excellent IMHO. I hope that Gen is saving the best for last.

I would say 1 and 3 are related. Its "absolute judgement" is the person is unable to be re-integrated into society. Execution is the police playing it safe than sorry...Unless I've forgotten where it ever said all high CC person have to be executed.
As for the "minor" thing, traditional values = traditional mindset?

2. Welcome to parallels to real world policing. Once they've got a suspect, ignore all other people.
Another reason would be escaping the blockade seems easy enough for those that are prepared. It's a big place and she had 'home advantage'.
Also, the fact that the police had to keep a low profile first is probably why they couldn't clamp the place down fast enough.


Love the extended ending, especially seeing what looks like a greenhorn Shinya and possibly Sasayama.

[bahamut zero]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

You know, the Dominator's method of killing really is absolutely horrible for any sort of public setting. People will tend to panic at least a bit just at the sounds of gunshots, of course, but seeing someone blown apart Dominator-style must be very traumatizing to most people. You'd think that the gun would have a less gorey method of killing (instant electrocution, say). While I can see how Gen wanted to make things grittier this way, I think on the whole it's this extremely gorey killing method that seems out of place in a world so deeply concerned with psychological health.

Well, I think it's most fitting, 'cause it presents a different kind of psychological control, through fear. Kind of like the public hangings back in the Wild West.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Mighty_frog

Good points. I'd probably be more bothered by this if the Dominator wasnt such a darn cool weapon

The grotesque way that the Dominator handles it's business may have been done deliberately as a deterrent. Something along the lines of "hey, keep your shit in check or else next time it'll be you getting mopped up off the floor". The psychological trauma of seeing someone get blown to bits may not be a problem since mental care medicine is so prevalent in their society. Maybe its called the Dominator for a reason, not just because thats a badass name for a gun lol.

That's probably the best rationale that can be offered for the Dominator, yeah. It still represents something of a trade-off, as it's one of the few parts of this futuristic world that seems downright retrograde, as in "That's uncivilized".

But if we presume that crime once grew wildly out of control, and the Sibyl System (with all its trappings, such as the Dominator) was a response to that, then the Dominator makes perfect sense.

Originally Posted by Endscape

I agree about her grievance against the school being too conventional. *Snip for Space*

Yeah, I think you nailed it completely. There certainly wasn't much nuance in her viewpoints, and it does have that certain idealism-driven simplicity to it that we tend to associate with teenagers, yeah.

Originally Posted by Gohan78

This episode was good but there were certain inconsistencies that didn't sit well with me.

1. The existence of a prison for high-PP criminals doesn't make sense in this setting. If these people are judged irredeemable by Sibyl, they should be executed (enforcers are an exception because they are still useful to the society).

That's an interesting point, and I definitely see where you're coming from. But here's a thought - Maybe they want to keep some high-PP criminals alive for scientific study. If nothing else, psychologists who lean towards scientific research and study might want to keep some alive to see if a means can be found for rehabilitating even these high-PP criminals.

The whole place made me think of a very clean, very high-tech Arkham Asylum (in fact, this is what Arkham Asylum should look like).

Not to mention that Rikako easily managed to escape the police blockade.

I think it's pretty clear that this was more Makishima's doing than Rikako's.

4. For the first time we saw Makishima outright killing one of his subordinates because she disappointed him. I hoped he wouldn't fall into such a cartoony villain role. He could have let the police slaughter Rikako instead of helping her escape, only to kill her later. And the Titus Andronicus quotes went on for too long.

Makishima may have certain goals and ideals more practical than The Joker's, but the man has a similar fondness for poetic killings. The way he had Rikako killed is definitely something that The Joker would have found highly humorous and fitting.

In and of itself, I certainly don't think this lessens Makishima as an antagonist, any more than it does The Joker himself.

Also, I'd honestly find it a bit boring if the way every criminal goes down is through a Dominator shot. Changing it up a bit from time-to-time makes for good variety, imo.

[creb]

If the prison held actual criminals, yes, it makes little sense. But, it's more likely it holds mostly ex-Enforcers, who've gone over their limit peacefully. It was, after all, stated that is a place where Enforcers end up.

On another note, would it be a safe bet to make that a future arc will involve those prisoners being released?

[Jimmy C]

I think those in the lockup are ones that are considered irredeemable but not high enough to warrant Lethal Eliminator removal. Yet. So they get to live, in confinement, for now.

[Roger Rambo]

lethal force seems to only be authorized in the event that highly dangerous people are caught in the field, when it's potentially dangerous. If you became diagnosed as incurable in a clinical setting, they'd probably confine you.

It DOES make sense. Because ultimately, you WANT incurable individuals to come forth so you can confine them. If they think they'd be killed if they came in willingly, you'd have to have everyone down. Which is chaotic and messy. It's better to keep them imprisoned.



It's also not THAT surprising that nobody suspected one of the student body of being the criminal. All these crimes suggest a rather high level of resources and planning...this isn't something you'd normally associate with a high school student. And really. It's not that unusual for the cops to go with a certain suspect model, only for it to be wrong. And Kougami WAS pretty damn close in figuring out the more correct profile of the criminal.

It was also good to finally see them going over the school with a comb. That DID take awhile.




One thing I do find interesting, is that when they recognized the setup for the murders as art...they didn't try to use any kind of image recognition software to try to correlate it to any artists. That'd be something out of the range of our AI, but you'd think it might be possible in the world of psycho-pass.

Or perhaps computers in Psycho-pass just aren't good at evaluating things like art.


I wonder if in this future, artists like Giger are remembered at all? Or do they get censored up for being too sick and depraved?

[creb]

Originally Posted by Roger Rambo

One thing I do find interesting, is that when they recognized the setup for the murders as art...they didn't try to use any kind of image recognition software to try to correlate it to any artists. That'd be something out of the range of our AI, but you'd think it might be possible in the world of psycho-pass.

Or perhaps computers in Psycho-pass just aren't good at evaluating things like art.


I wonder if in this future, artists like Giger are remembered at all? Or do they get censored up for being too sick and depraved?

I thought they made it pretty clear that art doesn't really exist anymore, via exposition from the prisoner they visited, so it's not surprising at all. Which, combined with this arc, was probably a rather unsubtle commentary on the controlled society we're being shown in this anime.

For all the discussion that goes on about the good/bad/morality of this social system, I've always thought it was pretty clear the show's intentions are strongly tilted to one perspective.

[Gohan78]

Originally Posted by creb

I thought they made it pretty clear that art doesn't really exist anymore, via exposition from the prisoner they visited, so it's not surprising at all. Which, combined with this arc, was probably a rather unsubtle commentary on the controlled society we're being shown in this anime.

It's not so much that all art has been banned, otherwise there wouldn't be an art class in that school (and we've seen Masaoka painting in a previous episode). I think that art is subjected to strong censorship and all pieces that are deemed dangerous for the psychological health of the public are banned.

[Dark Wing]

Like it was stated earlier. They're called Correctional and Rehabilitation Centers.

it used to help rehabilitate people but for those with a Crime Co-efficient of 300 and above get quarantined these are most likely individuals who turn themselves in voluntarily but cannot be cured.

[Guardian Enzo]

This was a flashy episode, full of signature moments and speeches and crescendos of violence. But my favorite moment was a quiet one, when Kougami took Akane to the correctional facility and casually told her, “When you or Gino decides I’m no longer of any use, this is where I’ll be locked up and never allowed to leave.” It was said without a trace of audible rancor or judgment – just matter-of-factly, as if it were the most natural thing in the world. And it was all the more damning of the system at the heart of the series because of that.

[Kirarakim]

I was also thinking the reason maybe only Ko thought about building a criminal profile is perhaps with the Sybil system it might not be that necessary in most cases. The Sybil system probably profiles most criminals by looking at their psycho pass/crime coefficient.

Digging in deep probably only needs to be done in rare cases but it is probably this skill that made Kogami such a strong detective.

I guess my main issue with the series is with all the crime still happening I am hard pressed to see how this system made life better in anyway and I don't even need Makishima's poetry to tell me this (as much as I do love to hear Sakurai quote Shakespeare)

[Kanon]

Originally Posted by Mighty_frog

Good points. I'd probably be more bothered by this if the Dominator wasnt such a darn cool weapon

The grotesque way that the Dominator handles it's business may have been done deliberately as a deterrent. Something along the lines of "hey, keep your shit in check or else next time it'll be you getting mopped up off the floor". The psychological trauma of seeing someone get blown to bits may not be a problem since mental care medicine is so prevalent in their society. Maybe its called the Dominator for a reason, not just because thats a badass name for a gun lol.

Another reason it could be necessary for the Dominator to kill so gruesomely is the use of drugs by criminals. These drugs kill pain and nullify the paralyzer's effect. Regular guns are probably ineffective against people shot up with these kind of drugs. Only headshots would work, which would make it hard for enforcers to kill their targets.

[LightningZERO]

Kick ass episode. The Oryou Rikako case is closed. As expected, Makishima pulled out 'you have failed me card' and has her murdered. After all, she was just a toy to him. I am really looking forward to see what Makishima is up to, besides just being bored. I kinda chuckled at what Rikako said to Makishima's old man partner about being abandoned once useless. Yeah, Makishima probably will end up killing all his accomplices as well.

Kougami continues to impress as a detective and managed to solve the case himself. Now that he is on Makishima's radar, I am looking forward to seeing what he has in store for Kougami.

The episode seems to hint about future plotlines, of the prison for those with over 300 criminal coefficient. We probably will see the tattoo guy again, and maybe we will see one of the main characters thrown into the prison once his psycho pass went far over the norm.

Overall, nice episode of an awesome series

[Roger Rambo]

Originally Posted by LightningZERO

Kougami continues to impress as a detective and managed to solve the case himself. Now that he is on Makishima's radar, I am looking forward to seeing what he has in store for Kougami.

Considering that Kougami and Akane are starting to bond as partners...and Kougami has a thing about his partners getting killed...I'm thinking Makishima is going to try to get to Kougami through Akane.


I think sometime in the future, Akane is going to be able to witness first hand the kind of violence the enforcers are capable of, if Kougami needs to go hand to hand to defend himself or her...


The hunter guy having a regular gun is certainly interesting contrast to the police armed with dominators. Dominators are certainly more damaging than a gun, perhaps even have high tech aim assistance...but there's also the fact that it seems that since a gun doesn't have to scan its target like a dominator, he might have a bit of an advantage.