Higurashi Episode 23 Discussion / Poll

[kj1980]

Originally Posted by Eleutheria

You may be right, since the "other" tells Rika when her death date will be.

Sushi-Y: was this TIP one of those all-text no character portrait ones?

Yes. The TIPS here had no character portraits. But by the dialogue, you can assume who they are.

[Matrim]

That's what I was thinking too at first, but read it again. It really makes more sense if it was Rika talking with Oyashiro-sama.

You really think Oyashiro-sama is a "she"? What about the statue? And isn't Oyashiro-sama supposed to possess Rika in some way, rather than talk with her, look sad, make noises, etc? Maybe the one Rika is talking to is Onibaba?

[MarmoO]

Originally Posted by Matrim

You really think Oyashiro-sama is a "she"? What about the statue? And isn't Oyashiro-sama supposed to possess Rika in some way, rather than talk with her, look sad, make noises, etc? Maybe the one Rika is talking to is Onibaba?

21 episode, Rika said herself, that she is able to talk to Oyashiro-sama.

[Matrim]

Wasn't Rika already dead in episode 21? Maybe you mean 20 when she said she can hear Oyashiro-sama's voice? And she might be able "talk" to him in her head or just hear his voice, which is common enough among people certain mental disorders. I just doubt Oyashiro-sama is the person she is talking to in that tip.

[MarmoO]

Originally Posted by Matrim

Wasn't Rika already dead in episode 21? Maybe you mean 20 when she said she can hear Oyashiro-sama's voice?

Sorry, my mistake, I meant 20 episode.

Originally Posted by Matrim

And she might be able "talk" to him in her head or just hear his voice, which is common enough among people certain mental disorders. I just doubt Oyashiro-sama is the person she is talking to in that tip.

But knowing the future isn’t a common thing among people with certain mental disorders and Rika knows future, most probably thanks to Oyashiro. During epilogue to Onikakushi she also said she is sure, that Oyashiro isn’t an evil being, so I’m sure she has contact with “him” and I think it is highly probable she is talking to him in this tip.

[Matrim]

I didn't mean that Rika is crazy for sure but I suspects her talks with Oyashiro-sama are either in her thoughts or like a dialogue with himself. after all, we have heard her talk like Oyashiro-sama to Akasaka and to Shion after the injection (with the voice of Midori from Mai-HiME ). If Oyashiro-sama can possess Rika, what's the point of appearing in some "real" form in that tip? Oyashiro-sama crying just doesn't seem right. Although he might be saddened by the loss of his avatar. AARGH, this tip is killing me!

P.S. You'd be amazed how many wannabe prophets are complete lunatics.

[kj1980]

Oh how tragic this series does not get to Minagoroshi. It would answer ALL of your questions regarding that TIPS.

Fortunately, we won't spoil anything until the anime is finished. After that, we'll decide to let it all out (or not) in a separate thread. Perhaps a Q&A type of thing where me, LostBlue, and Sushi-Y will answer three questions IN THROUGH DETAIL (3 x 3 = 9 answers in total, and that's it.). Choose your questions wisely (i.e.: redundant questions like "was that Satoshi in the bag?" will be a waste because of someone failing to read the TIPS), cause three questions each, that's it and the thread will be locked. Weird questions like "just give me all the details" does not count. www

[Sushi-Y]

Originally Posted by kj1980

Yes. The TIPS here had no character portraits. But by the dialogue, you can assume who they are.

Not for "au-au-au~" though. ^^;

Originally Posted by kj1980

Oh how tragic this series does not get to Minagoroshi. It would answer ALL of your questions regarding that TIPS.

Despite that, people are doing quite well with their theories, don't you think?

Spoiler for small talk, might be spoilerish:

Skipping around in Tsumihoroboshi-hen again, I realized the anime staff decided to omit all the small hints that were littered throughout this chapter that forshadowed the "reality" (for example, during the scene at the dump, Keiichi somehow "remembered" a tragic world where he killed two of his best friends because he didn't have trust for anyone, that's why he didn't want Rena to end up like him inside that "failed world").

I'm not complaining, since it's pointless to go that far if they're not doing Minagoroshi-hen anyway.

"Omitting" small references is one thing, I do hope they don't actually "avoid" these references though, since many of the latter significant scenes are dependent on them.

Originally Posted by kj1980

Fortunately, we won't spoil anything until the anime is finished. After that, we'll decide to let it all out (or not) in a separate thread. Perhaps a Q&A type of thing where me, LostBlue, and Sushi-Y will answer three questions IN THROUGH DETAIL (3 x 3 = 9 answers in total, and that's it.). Choose your questions wisely (i.e.: redundant questions like "was that Satoshi in the bag?" will be a waste because of someone failing to read the TIPS), cause three questions each, that's it and the thread will be locked.

Well, if people want to find out the what everything is all about after the anime is over, they can also visit the spoiler game discussion thread and spoil themselves silly. ^^;

[Wanderer]

I think an important question here is: Who is Frederica Bernkastel?

I suggest reading the Message from Frederica Bernkastel in the poems section.

I'm not sure who has noticed yet or not how close the name "Frederica" sounds to "Furude Rika". However Frederica herself said that she is neither Rika nor Oyashiro-sama.

What I think may be liikely is that Rika does have two identities, neither of which are Oyashiro-sama. One is our cute and innocent "Ni-pah" Rika and the other is Frederica Bernkastel. Frederica would be the mature/serious/cynical one with memories of other arcs, and all the TIPS that seem to be from Rika's point of view would actually be from Frederica's point of view. Oyashiro-sama could then be an entirely different presence that is trying to work with Frederica towards a happy outcome.

[LuckyCat]

Takano did everything.

Tomikake watched.

[MarmoO]

Originally Posted by Matrim

If Oyashiro-sama can possess Rika, what's the point of appearing in some "real" form in that tip?

I don't think Rika is exactly who she appears to be. I think her moe and her serious side are two sides of the same medal.

Originally Posted by Matrim

Oyashiro-sama crying just doesn't seem right. Although he might be saddened by the loss of his avatar. AARGH, this tip is killing me!

http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...2&postcount=11

The Oyashiro-sama is the Oyashiro-sama. You want me to introduce it to you? It's rather shy.
It gets frightened easily so don't scare it, okay? However, it seems that you are the one that's scared.

Giggle giggle giggle...
__________________

Originally Posted by 1980

Oh how tragic this series does not get to Minagoroshi.

But there is still hope for OAV?

[Mappy]

I have to say, with lesser shows getting shorter (or longer) second seasons, Higurashi would have to be close to top of the list in getting its last two major arcs animated in a short tv followup or oav. At least, from a deserving pov.

[MarthX]

It'd be nice if someone made a list of everything important left out in the anime for each chapter.

[Bebpo]

I just signed up here because after having played/read the sound novel #6, ep22/23 so far have angered me beyond belief and made me hate Studio DEEN and their awful story decisions even more than I had before from other shows.

I have never seen an adaptation of anything in my entire life that was so disgraceful to the original source material and that was so painful to watch. >_<

I can't believe they are getting away with this bastardization of the original sound novel and I wonder how the doujin creators feel about this. If I were them I'd probably want to publically seperate myself from the anime, much like what happened with the film version of The League of Extrodinary Gentlemen.

If they realized they couldn't fit the story in the amount of eps they had, they should have just made their own ending up or given more time to the other arcs while doing #6 in a seperate OAV or series. At this point there's no way to fix it and that's just extremely disappointing.

In the novel, the later events in ep23 were built up so well in terms of both plot and understanding of the characters and why they would act the way that they did, that the major scene in the ep brought me to tears when I read it in the novel and was one of those scenes that will leave a strong impression for years. Yet in the anime it was a joke and everything in 22/23 had skipped around so much there was zero emotion and it was just pointless.

Oh and the art in the episode was beyond awful. Seriously some of the worst faces I have seen in anime. Guess they felt like the script wasn't a big enough insult to the fans so they had to go further.

I hate Studio DEEN

[Sushi-Y]

Originally Posted by MarthX

It'd be nice if someone made a list of everything important left out in the anime for each chapter.

It'd make a long list. ^^; But the really important stuffs that the anime skipped out on are usually translated and placed in the TIP thread, so it's not all lost.

Originally Posted by Bebpo

I just signed up here because after having played/read the sound novel #6, ep22/23 so far have angered me beyond belief and made me hate Studio DEEN and their awful story decisions even more than I had before from other shows.

You sound like me back when the anime first started.

For one, I don't think Ryukishi07-san would complain: it's a rare honor for a doujin game to be animated in the first place, I don't think he's going to be picky about it.

For original fans like us, it's certainly disappointing when we see memorable scenes/events in an anime adaptation rushed or skipped, but it's really an unavoidable thing. Deen chose to focus on the "suspense/horror" aspect of the novel scenarios, and sacrificed everything else. Perhaps it would've been better if they only did one or two scenarios and sacrifice no plots? Maybe they should've considered the importance of the game's memorable music tracks and used those instead? Maybe they should've just stuck to believable facial expressions instead of making our characters do all those annoying face warps?

The anime certainly don't do the game justice, but think about it this way: if it weren't for the anime, most people here probably wouldn't even know about the existence of this series. It's ok to complain about how an episode messed up on this and that (I do it all the time), but it's nothing to hate the animation studio for (Deen's F/sn anime wasn't too bad, for example).

[I<3killerloli's]

My only complaint is that Ep23 is still not out subbed! Grr...makes me wish I could fluently speak Japanese.

Oh well. But with only 2 (?) more episodes left, do you think the grand finale will be anything special?

[MarthX]

It sure is painful waiting a week for the sub. By the time we get it, 24's RAW will be out.

[LostBlue]

Originally Posted by Bebpo

I just signed up here because after having played/read the sound novel #6, ep22/23 so far have angered me beyond belief

That's quite harsh. *covers Sushi-Y's eyes* Tatagoroshi handling was much more of a disgrace

But with all the stuff on fast-forward in this arc and the limited 5 EP bench-mark someone thought was enough for the "final" arc to the anime (that's in itself was quite stupid for one of the longest chapters), DEEN isn't doing that bad. Despite cutting 90% Kei's and Rena's speech and they did a fairly good job covering the points. So far this arc seems like reviewing the chapter on bullet points.

What angers me about the anime is the animation. There's no excuse for that beyond budget. DEEN is capable of produce "cleaner" sakugas but this anime on the whole... then they give people supernatural strength & powers & elastic faces that distract from the story. *sigh* I mean just sub-contracting the animation to [whatever horrid company did this EP] isn't what gets me. But when the "added" things distract from the series that's really disappointing. But I do love DEEN for picking it up. I never heard of the series until then. Now to fax this entire forum to Kyo-Ani's desk 誰か、英語読める人いますか？いいえ　じゃ、捨ててきなさい　はぁぃ～

Originally Posted by MarthX

It'd be nice if someone made a list of everything important left out in the anime for each chapter.

Yea, waaaaaay to much to list. The TIPs is a good place to start. Then probably reading the last corresponding EP thread to each particular arc is probably another good place to see what was skipped. Then there's more. Like several of the Club Activities were foreshadows to what will happen later (maybe in that arc, maybe in a later arc). I can safely say at least one of the club game was a clue to the mystery. Most of those activities were cut. Understandable b/c of what DEEN wanted to focus on.

Originally Posted by MarthX

It sure is painful waiting a week for the sub. By the time we get it, 24's RAW will be out.

Patience. If anyone has a problem with WinD subs EP14+ feel free to msg away at me. The forum isn't really the place to discuss that. I don't watch the EPs myself until Sunday due to time constraints. That's the main reason why the WinD subs have been "late".

Originally Posted by I<3killerloli's

But with only 2 (?) more episodes left, do you think the grand finale will be anything special?

[Shuin4]

Originally Posted by LostBlue

What angers me about the anime is the animation. There's no excuse for that beyond budget. DEEN is capable of produce "cleaner" sakugas but this anime on the whole... then they give people supernatural strength & powers & elastic faces that distract from the story. *sigh* I mean just sub-contracting the animation to [whatever horrid company did this EP] isn't what gets me. But when the "added" things distract from the series that's really disappointing. But I do love DEEN for picking it up. I never heard of the series until then. Now to fax this entire forum to Kyo-Ani's desk 誰か、英語読める人いますか？いいえ　じゃ、捨ててきなさい　はぁぃ～

I think the reason for the terrible animation is because they just don't have time to clean it up. I mean, look at episode 21. It had pretty nice animation, but that was probably because half the episode was reused footage, so all they had to do was animate half an episode, thus they could take longer with it.

Also, I noticed the first 2 DVDs have been released in Japan. Do they fix up any of the animation at all?

[BakaOnna]

You know, when I read the Favorite Wine TIPS a second time, I noticed the person speaking said something about a burnt corpse. Takano? Then it mentions that young children shouldn't drink... And speaking of which, I've noticed that Tomitake and Takano are the two people that die every arc, at least, they're believed to be dead. Well, actually, Tomitake usually dies, and Takano gets burned/disappears. Rika and Takano are working together? She is suspicious. But that doesn't seem right...

Anyway, about the episode itself. I gave it a 9. I've realized the solution in this series with any family problems you have: Kill people that are causing it. Yep, murder is always your best solution.