Fate/Zero - Episode 25 Discussion [END] / Poll

[imbehindyou]

Originally Posted by jeroz

Spoiler:

1. is more of putting the fact together. Saber was summoned by the holy grail (explained in ep1), so once that vessel is destroyed she can't last long.
2. er..watch 1:21 again. As to how the actual system works don't think there's a definitive timestamp for it...
3. 5:25, and the fact that he was born anew and with a real body (a wish that Rider wanted, ironically)
4. 6:10. He did say that he has no "heartbeat" left. In other words, It's magic
5. Guess not. Not everyone who fainted/collapsed dies. You can still be alive without your mana source, see Kayneth.
6. Guess she wasn't dead back then. Not everyone who fainted/collapsed dies. No to mention Kotomine the master healer is right there.
7. That smirk at 16:31, simply fabulous.

I already kinda know the answer but thanks anyway.

Hmm. My point is that, we're asked to assume a lot of things. Not that it's bad, but maybe it's too much for some peeps. Yes, Fate/Zero is a prequel to F/SN, and I guess viewers are expected to be somewhat familiar with Nasuverse, so we can't blame the staff for everything. There still are, however, some questions that this episode could've addressed:

Q3 - Gilga pretty much says "Mud spit me back out! It must mean that I should rule over this world!" and Kirei asks, "You gotz body?" that's it. Hmm. why? what does that mean?

Q5 - well, Kayneth and Kariya are not in similar physical condition. After Berseker going berserk, without teh bug Kariya probably barely functioned while Kayneth was not in as bad condition as Kariya was :q

[mAc Chaos]

Well, they already had to cut so much other stuff out. So it's not really a surprise some extra background info explanations would also be squeezed out.

Gilgamesh would interpret ANYTHING as being a reason for him to rule the world. It's not meant to be taken seriously, he's just saying "lol it was magic".

[lightsenshi]

My only thought, which others have reflected already, is that the ending felt rushed.

[OmegaBlazeJYGBSP]

IMHO Terribly done and handled
Destroying the Grail.....no comments
With the whole town being destroyed...they kinda didn't show much(hoping for BD)
Ilya explanation scene...terrible is terrible
Kiritsugu is like....really I don't understand how he can just become like a....ghost?
Kotomine and Gilgamesh......more like absolute waste of time
Waver Scenes were kinda ....unnecessary
Kariya and Sakura....was just sad
The scene with Rin...didn't seem to make much sense....
Last, the entirety of the Shirou stuff seems like they were trying to suck up to us

[jeroz]

Originally Posted by OmegaBlazeJYGBSP

IMHO Terribly done and handled
Destroying the Grail.....no comments

no comment here either

Originally Posted by OmegaBlazeJYGBSP

With the whole town being destroyed...they kinda didn't show much(hoping for BD)

....mud comes, fire follows? how hard is that to understand? Do you want scenes of people burnt alive and struggling and yell in great pain?

Originally Posted by OmegaBlazeJYGBSP

Ilya explanation scene...terrible is terrible

what explanation scene? It sets up the main story and tells you how much faith the Einzbern family had in Kiritsugu

Originally Posted by OmegaBlazeJYGBSP

Kiritsugu is like....really I don't understand how he can just become like a....ghost?

What he thought is a saving act to the world turned out to be a disaster to the town...who wouldn't become lost? Do you even know his character?

Originally Posted by OmegaBlazeJYGBSP

Kotomine and Gilgamesh......more like absolute waste of time

Confirmation of the Kotomine character development, also setting up for the main story

Originally Posted by OmegaBlazeJYGBSP

Waver Scenes were kinda ....unnecessary

important to show his character, also that this war isn't all tragedy to all participants. It showed salvation, something a series desperately needed after all those tragedy.

Originally Posted by OmegaBlazeJYGBSP

Kariya and Sakura....was just sad

agreed

Originally Posted by OmegaBlazeJYGBSP

The scene with Rin...didn't seem to make much sense....

Kirei's j♂y too much for you to handle?

Originally Posted by OmegaBlazeJYGBSP

Last, the entirety of the Shirou stuff seems like they were trying to suck up to us

Important to Kiritsugu's character and finale, also acts as bridging to the main story. Without Shirou he won't find peace. It's not the ultimate salvation, but at least he's no longer in turmoil.

[Dop]

On the whole I really enjoyed this series given that I'd never seen Fate/Stay Night or spinoffs or played the VN.

I wonder what the odds are of the same crew remaking F/SN?

[Moekou]

Originally Posted by Dop

On the whole I really enjoyed this series given that I'd never seen Fate/Stay Night or spinoffs or played the VN.

I wonder what the odds are of the same crew remaking F/SN?

The thing is, the DEEN anime was NOT Fate/Stay Night, it was the Fate route, the first of three chapters meant to be read in succession. It isn't any sort of "main route" as many seem to have come to believe-it's the setup. While they're different parallel universes/timelines of sorts, they aren't merely simply different options the user can see, but specifically meant to be read in the order of the three chapters (Fate, Unlimited Blade Works, Heaven's Feel) and the latter two are only unlocked after completing the former. They build upon each other's themes and overturn previous assumptions about the status quo. The Fate route in particular was specifically setting the stage for Unlimited Blade Works, while Heaven's Feel is what inspired Fate/Zero the most and thus would be the most natural continuation for Ufotable if they choose to do so. The UBW movie was basically a montage of the fight scenes: imagine what Fate/Zero would be like if they cut out all the talking and just had the fights? It'd look cool but there wouldn't be much depth and just be something for fans that read the story, and confuse everyone else. It is supposed to bring closure to the themes opened up in Fate, putting seemingly happy development into closer scrutiny to reveal the ugly cogs behind the machine.

Fate/Stay Night is the full experience of the three chapters, and it hasn't made its point yet with just the first chapter. While the original Fate route adaptation anime was considered mediocre by many, it's the UBW route that needs the remake since a montage movie just doesn't do the storyline justice. However, it's the final chapter, Heaven's Feel, that really needs to see the light the most. It used to be considered the least likely because it's darker and the heroine was just random muggle side character named Sakura, and was full of disturbing content that was too much for the shonen level the DEEN adaptation of the Fate route was going for. However, with Fate/Zero, there's much more of a bridge and it becomes more meaningful to a continued audience for the new protagonist to pick up where Kariya left off and complete what he set out to do, rather than just randomly hitting it off with a seemingly cute but irrelevant background character.

[Awrya]

Just finished watching, it wasn't perfect but still earned 9/10.

Did they make the conversation between Kirei and Gilgamesh overly complicated? Kirei is shot, Archer gets body, Kirei defines himself as a zombie or was it just mistranslations by the fansub?
Surprised that Gilgamesh didn't react much when the grail spilled mud on him, first sign of personality change?
The motions Archer did while warping himself looks a bit too feminine to me, whereas he just sat there proudly naked while Kirei wakes up

[chaos_alfa]

Originally Posted by Awrya

Just finished watching, it wasn't perfect but still earned 9/10.

Did they make the conversation between Kirei and Gilgamesh overly complicated? Kirei is shot, Archer gets body, Kirei defines himself as a zombie or was it just mistranslations by the fansub?
Surprised that Gilgamesh didn't react much when the grail spilled mud on him, first sign of personality change?
The motions Archer did while warping himself looks a bit too feminine to me, whereas he just sat there proudly naked while Kirei wakes up

Gilgamesh personalty never changed because of the mud. It seems the mud just couldn't absorb him because of his "might" and spit him out.

[Soverence]

Just finished watching it as well, quite a interesting episode to say the least. The scene with Sakura and Kariya was sad but that was kind of how it had to end, even thought I still find it tragic.

I don't really understand why Kirei came back to life, because his servant was the last remaining? I thought like half way through they were saying the last servant had to kill themselves to finish the ceremony, what ever happened to that? Or did I misunderstand that conversation from way back when?

Well the whole thing with Kirei and Gilgamesh was a little ehh to me, everything else seems perfect, Waver's development and happiness was a nice thing to see compared to all the torment everyone else went through.

[mAc Chaos]

The Grail basically bestowed some of its power to Kotomine because he was willing to accept the Grail. His nature is similar to the Grail's, just like Kiritsugu (or so it seemed), so he was able to touch the mud that burns away all living things and come out alive. The mud tried to absorb Gilgamesh but he was too strong.

For the Servant killing themselves, that's only if you wanted to complete a specific ritual which only mages like Tokiomi cared about. Otherwise, the Grail had plenty of power to grant wishes with just most of the Servants gone.

[ChronoReverse]

Some of these things unfortunately aren't as clear as it could be because this is a prequel that assumes you have knowledge from the original =/

[mAc Chaos]

Every time someone says they watched Fate/Zero before playing / watching FSN, I rage. Even though it's good that they're getting into it.

[Nausky]

Fate/Zero is a lot better at storytelling than you seem to assume. I have introduced a few people to Fate and asked them to watch Fate/Zero first, which led to them wanting more.

Actually, the only question I have been asked was: "Why did Kiritsugu fall in love with a homunculus?" to which I was able to send over the drama CD translations.

It's a very good anime on its own. A 'newbie' does watch it through different eyes than we do, but if they end up wanting to know more, everything will click eventually.

[jeroz]

Watching through it again.

Yes it does have some pacing problem with deleted scenes due to time constraint, but when it dedicated itself fully, the scenes are amazing and brilliant.

That final scene is just so wonderfully executed, and I wouldn't have it any other ways.

Ufotable said in the beginning that they only treat the blu-ray as the proper definitive version before it airs, so I'm willing to look past some deficits in the tv version until I see the blu ray.

[mAc Chaos]

Originally Posted by Nausky

Fate/Zero is a lot better at storytelling than you seem to assume. I have introduced a few people to Fate and asked them to watch Fate/Zero first, which led to them wanting more.

Actually, the only question I have been asked was: "Why did Kiritsugu fall in love with a homunculus?" to which I was able to send over the drama CD translations.

It's a very good anime on its own. A 'newbie' does watch it through different eyes than we do, but if they end up wanting to know more, everything will click eventually.

It's not that the storytelling is bad, it's just that it spoils all the things that are meant to be surprised in FSN since it assumes you know them already.

[Flawfinder]

Originally Posted by OmegaBlazeJYGBSP

Waver Scenes were kinda ....unnecessary

Uh, no. Waver's scenes were needed to complete his development and were the only scenes I actually cared for in the finale.

And I didn't need to watch the anime to know Saber was King Arthur, because her identity is about as secret as Darth Vader's. And personally, I have no intention of resuming that awful anime, nor playing the game. I'm fine with fate/zero.

[Xellos-_^]

Originally Posted by jeroz

no comment here either
....mud comes, fire follows? how hard is that to understand? Do you want scenes of people burnt alive and struggling and yell in great pain?
what explanation scene? It sets up the main story and tells you how much faith the Einzbern family had in Kiritsugu
What he thought is a saving act to the world turned out to be a disaster to the town...who wouldn't become lost? Do you even know his character?
Confirmation of the Kotomine character development, also setting up for the main story
important to show his character, also that this war isn't all tragedy to all participants. It showed salvation, something a series desperately needed after all those tragedy.
agreed
Kirei's j♂y too much for you to handle?
Important to Kiritsugu's character and finale, also acts as bridging to the main story. Without Shirou he won't find peace. It's not the ultimate salvation, but at least he's no longer in turmoil.

Originally Posted by Flawnalyst

And I didn't need to watch the anime to know Saber was King Arthur, because her identity is about as secret as Darth Vader's. And personally, I have no intention of resuming that awful anime, nor playing the game. I'm fine with fate/zero.

you guys need to learn stop feeding the trolls.

[Flawfinder]

The second paragraph was intended for mAc chaos.

[chaos_alfa]

Originally Posted by Flawnalyst

The second paragraph was intended for mAc chaos.

That's not what Fate/Zero spoils.

Spoiler for Fate/Zero spoils this about F/SN:

- Ilya is Kiritsugu's daughter
- The Grail is corrupt
- Sakura and Rin are sisters
- What Sakura is going through under the Matou's
- Kirei doesn't have a heart
- Kirei's true nature
- Kirei killed Rin's father
- Gilgamesh, a servant of the previous war is still alive
- Saber's identity

And probably more things I can't remember right now.