AnimeSuki Forums

Guernsey · 2009-05-01, 02:01

How deep does an anime show such as Eva, Lain or any other groundbreaking anime need to be in order for it to be considered "deep"? I know it is entirely subjective and it may not be as "deep" as it seems but still it seems to be that there is lot of themes, references, philosophies and ideas in the show itself that makes it so powerful and insightful. However, it just seems that you can fanwank just about anything foction as log as it has "deep" stuff in it but as the title says, it is no substitute for reality and it only displays very little of the "real" world. I'll repeat the question the again, how deep does an anime show such as Eva, Lain or any other groundbreaking anime need to be in order for it to be considered "deep"?

jedinat · 2009-05-01, 03:08

Just deep enough that a good portion of the viewers don't know what the hell is going on. That's all it takes, I think.

Seriously though, your question doesn't really make much sense. If an anime is thought-provoking, it's thought-provoking. There isn't some invisible scale of metaphor or philosophy the needs tip to suddenly make an anime "deep." It is that if someone calls it that--and most people only call a thing "deep" because they don't know what else to call something that seems be going over their head.

KholdStare · 2009-05-01, 03:19

I usually translate "deep" as how much something personally affects you, because that's what it is. If someone doesn't find an anime deep but you do, then chances are they just didn't connect with the anime and not because he or she is stupid. This is why I disagree with "deep" meaning "most people won't understand." I'll list some examples of anime I think as deep and some people will surely disagree with something.

Haibane Renmei
Clannad: Tomoyo OVA
Cardcaptor Sakura
Elfen Lied
SaiKano

Is Lain deep? Probably. Not to me though. I was too bored to think too hard so I didn't "get" it. I also dislike Akira, FLCL, because those are not my style. I watch anime to enjoy it, not think about how deep it is and reflect on my past sins. I don't really consider NGE thought-provoking...

In summary, to me "deep" is personal matter and a consensus might offend many, including me.

Shadow Kira01 · 2009-05-01, 03:31

I guess the idea of deep and insightful varies on the individual viewer. So, my good recommendations may not be considered as such by other individuals.

Gundam 00: The anime especially the second season made me think about the issue of the Middle East deeply and it has also slightly altered my perspective. I am more sympathetic to the people of the Middle East.

Gundam Wing: The anime questions the reality of pacifism, as well as the truth of the relationship in regards to that of a colony and the colonizer. However, like other Gundam animes, it is not evident to most typical anime audiences. On the contrary, I think lots of people have seen through it as well. There were many instances of metaphors. However, if you think watching an anime of politics and warfare is boring, then you got the wrong idea. There are lots of mechas and also an awesome soundtrack to go with it.

Sheba · 2009-05-01, 03:31

I personally think that the movie "Akira" is in this category too. And Otomo did the trick w/o philosophical rambling :3

ddwkc · 2009-05-01, 06:15

Dunno how to classify "deep". To me if I can see different "layers" of complexity of character, reference, story, etc. it's deep in my book. Specially when I rewatch the same anime and still get a refreshing new insight in it.

Shows like Legend of the Galactic Heroes, Mushishi, and Monster are deep IMHO.

Hs Vi Germania · 2009-05-01, 09:36

Ikki Tousen of course...

Eh, no. It would be

Elfenlied, Gunslinger Girl and Noir, I think.

KholdStare · 2009-05-01, 10:55

I pondered a bit on Gunslinger Girl, because while it is definitely thought-provoking, it's quite clear what the underlying message is, at least for me.

Ender! · 2009-05-01, 16:09

Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann made me believe there was an omnipotent being somewhere out there just waiting for Earth's spiral power to reach a certain level until they come and wreck complete despair all over our planet, solar system, and galaxy. I think we need to get a bigger drill...

Hs Vi Germania · 2009-05-01, 18:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by KholdStare

I pondered a bit on Gunslinger Girl, because while it is definitely thought-provoking, it's quite clear what the underlying message is, at least for me.

Probably I understood "deep" wrong...

KholdStare · 2009-05-01, 18:32

Or maybe my definition is just different from yours. =/ Deep is such a vague word~

Hs Vi Germania · 2009-05-01, 18:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by KholdStare

Or maybe my definition is just different from yours. =/ Deep is such a vague word~

Highly probable. ^.^

Kimura sensei · 2009-05-01, 18:58

There are no deep anime.

Spectacular_Insanity · 2009-05-01, 21:25

I always thought the ideas put forth by Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex were pretty deep. It always on some levels asked us, "what makes us human?" or "what is the soul?", especially when taking into account advanced levels of AI and the fact that most people had prosthetic bodies and/or cyberbrains.

I can't believe no one mentioned it yet.

LeviathanDarkly · 2009-05-01, 21:49

You want DEEP, ha?
People are so stupid, lol.

jagass · 2009-05-01, 22:02

It's just right...

Waking_Dreamer · 2009-05-01, 22:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spectacular_Insanity

I always thought the ideas put forth by Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex were pretty deep. It always on some levels asked us, "what makes us human?" or "what is the soul?", especially when taking into account advanced levels of AI and the fact that most people had prosthetic bodies and/or cyberbrains.

I can't believe no one mentioned it yet.

haha going thought the post one by one and I was also surprised no one had mentioned Ghost in the Shell, and I was enthusiastically prepared to post that till I saw your post. Cut a lot of enthusiasm out of my eagerness to post...Fully agree though.

To an extent FMA first series was thought-provoking. Have to appreciate how they weaved their own direction without further material from the manga. I especially like the whole Sloth confrontation with Ed...now that was intense and thought-provoking. The fixing their mistakes...mortality...the right to live...what is the essence of a person...their identity...their soul..

Hs Vi Germania · 2009-05-02, 04:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeviathanDarkly

You want DEEP, ha?
People are so stupid, lol.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kimura sensei

There are no deep anime.

Anyway the thread missed its true target.
A third don't believe in "deeps" of animes, a third don't know how understand the "deepness" because it's a unclear word and the rest is unsure about what is "deep" and what not.

KholdStare · 2009-05-02, 11:42

It makes me sad how we can't have a discussion without some people out there having to act smart and post saying everyone else who participated in this thread is stupid. I thank everyone else who are not condescending towards others in this thread.

GuidoHunter_Toki · 2009-05-02, 12:36

I feel most anime is intended to entertain us, while giving us something to think about. It is apparent that we perceive this notion of “deepness” because it came about from the anime we watch. Some writers intend for some anime to keep us thinking while some anime are created merely for entertainment and fun. And yes, some anime do keep us thinking, hence we call them deep. But keep in mind it is as deep as the person perceives it and also how well the writer executes his or her presentation and intentions.

2009-05-01, 02:01	Link #1
Guernsey The GAP Man Join Date: Jun 2008 Age: 36	Deep and Insightful anime How deep does an anime show such as Eva, Lain or any other groundbreaking anime need to be in order for it to be considered "deep"? I know it is entirely subjective and it may not be as "deep" as it seems but still it seems to be that there is lot of themes, references, philosophies and ideas in the show itself that makes it so powerful and insightful. However, it just seems that you can fanwank just about anything foction as log as it has "deep" stuff in it but as the title says, it is no substitute for reality and it only displays very little of the "real" world. I'll repeat the question the again, how deep does an anime show such as Eva, Lain or any other groundbreaking anime need to be in order for it to be considered "deep"? __________________

2009-05-01, 03:19	Link #3
KholdStare ISML Technical Staff Graphic Designer Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Phoenix, AZ Age: 35	I usually translate "deep" as how much something personally affects you, because that's what it is. If someone doesn't find an anime deep but you do, then chances are they just didn't connect with the anime and not because he or she is stupid. This is why I disagree with "deep" meaning "most people won't understand." I'll list some examples of anime I think as deep and some people will surely disagree with something. Haibane Renmei Clannad: Tomoyo OVA Cardcaptor Sakura Elfen Lied SaiKano Is Lain deep? Probably. Not to me though. I was too bored to think too hard so I didn't "get" it. I also dislike Akira, FLCL, because those are not my style. I watch anime to enjoy it, not think about how deep it is and reflect on my past sins. I don't really consider NGE thought-provoking... In summary, to me "deep" is personal matter and a consensus might offend many, including me. __________________ Kholdy's MAL, ISML Chat, Saimoe Blog, Saimoe Wiki

2009-05-01, 06:15	Link #6
ddwkc Lone Wolf Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Brazil	Dunno how to classify "deep". To me if I can see different "layers" of complexity of character, reference, story, etc. it's deep in my book. Specially when I rewatch the same anime and still get a refreshing new insight in it. Shows like Legend of the Galactic Heroes, Mushishi, and Monster are deep IMHO. __________________ Eo tempore, cum tibi occuri, Mihi vita laeta fuit, Cum autem te nusquam conspexi, Eo tempore mortem cognovi

2009-05-01, 09:36	Link #7
Hs Vi Germania Please call me "senpai":) Author Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Germany Age: 33	Ikki Tousen of course... Eh, no. It would be Elfenlied, Gunslinger Girl and Noir, I think. __________________

2009-05-01, 10:55	Link #8
KholdStare ISML Technical Staff Graphic Designer Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Phoenix, AZ Age: 35	I pondered a bit on Gunslinger Girl, because while it is definitely thought-provoking, it's quite clear what the underlying message is, at least for me. __________________ Kholdy's MAL, ISML Chat, Saimoe Blog, Saimoe Wiki

2009-05-01, 03:08	Link #2
jedinat Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Age: 38	Just deep enough that a good portion of the viewers don't know what the hell is going on. That's all it takes, I think. Seriously though, your question doesn't really make much sense. If an anime is thought-provoking, it's thought-provoking. There isn't some invisible scale of metaphor or philosophy the needs tip to suddenly make an anime "deep." It is that if someone calls it that--and most people only call a thing "deep" because they don't know what else to call something that seems be going over their head.

2009-05-01, 03:31	Link #4
Shadow Kira01 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: PMB Headquarters	I guess the idea of deep and insightful varies on the individual viewer. So, my good recommendations may not be considered as such by other individuals. Gundam 00: The anime especially the second season made me think about the issue of the Middle East deeply and it has also slightly altered my perspective. I am more sympathetic to the people of the Middle East. Gundam Wing: The anime questions the reality of pacifism, as well as the truth of the relationship in regards to that of a colony and the colonizer. However, like other Gundam animes, it is not evident to most typical anime audiences. On the contrary, I think lots of people have seen through it as well. There were many instances of metaphors. However, if you think watching an anime of politics and warfare is boring, then you got the wrong idea. There are lots of mechas and also an awesome soundtrack to go with it.

2009-05-01, 03:31	Link #5
Sheba RUN, YOU FOOLS! Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Formerly Iwakawa base and Chaldea. Now Teyvat, the Astral Express & the Outpost Age: 44	I personally think that the movie "Akira" is in this category too. And Otomo did the trick w/o philosophical rambling :3

2009-05-01, 16:09	Link #9
Ender! Spiral Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: New York Age: 32	Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann made me believe there was an omnipotent being somewhere out there just waiting for Earth's spiral power to reach a certain level until they come and wreck complete despair all over our planet, solar system, and galaxy. I think we need to get a bigger drill...

2009-05-01, 18:32	Link #11
KholdStare ISML Technical Staff Graphic Designer Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Phoenix, AZ Age: 35	Or maybe my definition is just different from yours. =/ Deep is such a vague word~ __________________ Kholdy's MAL, ISML Chat, Saimoe Blog, Saimoe Wiki

2009-05-01, 18:58	Link #13
Kimura sensei Kimurin, the Wise Join Date: May 2008	There are no deep anime.

2009-05-01, 21:25	Link #14
Spectacular_Insanity Ha ha ha ha ha... Graphic Designer Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Right behind you. Age: 35	I always thought the ideas put forth by Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex were pretty deep. It always on some levels asked us, "what makes us human?" or "what is the soul?", especially when taking into account advanced levels of AI and the fact that most people had prosthetic bodies and/or cyberbrains. I can't believe no one mentioned it yet. __________________

2009-05-01, 21:49	Link #15
LeviathanDarkly ℳℴℯ❤ Join Date: Mar 2008 Age: 34	You want DEEP, ha? People are so stupid, lol.

2009-05-01, 22:02	Link #16
jagass Member Join Date: Feb 2009	It's just right...

2009-05-02, 11:42	Link #19
KholdStare ISML Technical Staff Graphic Designer Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Phoenix, AZ Age: 35	It makes me sad how we can't have a discussion without some people out there having to act smart and post saying everyone else who participated in this thread is stupid. I thank everyone else who are not condescending towards others in this thread. __________________ Kholdy's MAL, ISML Chat, Saimoe Blog, Saimoe Wiki

2009-05-02, 12:36	Link #20
GuidoHunter_Toki Wiggle Your Big Toe Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Milwaukee Age: 33	I feel most anime is intended to entertain us, while giving us something to think about. It is apparent that we perceive this notion of “deepness” because it came about from the anime we watch. Some writers intend for some anime to keep us thinking while some anime are created merely for entertainment and fun. And yes, some anime do keep us thinking, hence we call them deep. But keep in mind it is as deep as the person perceives it and also how well the writer executes his or her presentation and intentions. __________________ I'm an aspiring voice actor, why not check out some of my stuff