2010-07-24, 00:53 | Link #501 |
Time-diver
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Location is all relative.
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-Who said anything about not liking either Cid or Galk? They're great in their own way as well. Who wouldn't appreciate Galk's honour-bound stubborness and Cid's sly, yet nonetheless loyal character? I am not going to talk about apperances (that belongs to the individual viewer), but I judge based on actions taken. And while both Galk and Cid did warm up to the Claymores, I hold Raki in high regard because he's the 1st human (since Clare) that looked past the Claymore stigmata and accepted them for who they were. I'm sorry but to me that is just too good a quality to not like, especially when such traits are rare amongst the general human populace (the bandits in Teresa's time, Raki's idiotic villagers and the Organization's manipulators).
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2010-07-24, 01:09 | Link #502 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Australia
Age: 36
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Quote:
Its hypocritical that you don't mind liking any other character its just that if Raki is mentioned you go in a frenzy of attacking both him and the poster who said it.
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2010-07-24, 02:14 | Link #504 |
Dark Lord of Animesuki
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: The Kingdom of Orange...you can't beat the Cuse, in basketball or snowfall!
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Can't we have more constructive "fights", like arguments over whether buxom Miria or sleek Galatea is the fairest of them all? (or perhaps the dark horse candidate, Renee )
I'm however having trouble relating religious/political talk with discussing Raki. I've found him annoying at times, it's true, but characters do not stay the same forever, much like people. I'm more than willing to give Raki his shot at redemption rather than dismiss such a possibility out of hand. His new self seems more than tolerable by my estimations. The only thing that ever grates on me is when Shiek goes on about Priscilla being redeemable. I guess to me, once a person has murdered more than a certain number of people, they stop being "redeemable". Shiek thinks she can/will be redeemed, and I find this abhorrent because it means her thousands of victims will never get justice. At least with that disagreement there are two clear moral value systems involved. I'm having a tough time seeing that as the case when regarding Raki.
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2010-07-24, 02:35 | Link #505 |
mangaviking
Join Date: Jun 2009
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can you stop bullying cyclone for bullying raki? I find his "dinosauric" (quote, I didn't say that ) creativity in finding new ways of expressing his feelings on this character amusing and not offensive, however bad my mood might be without having had my morning coffee.
apart from that, I shall not accept Galatea beeing called "sleek" in comparison to "buxom" Miria. And Renee is kinda cute but does not even compare to the both of them. So can we have a fight about something constructive and important like which of the claymores is sexiest? Revan made a good call there ... otherwise somebody plz come up with spoilers... that I would also tolerate
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Last edited by haegar; 2010-07-24 at 02:45. |
2010-07-24, 02:39 | Link #506 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Australia
Age: 36
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Quote:
Yagi seems to have some redemption theme going so it may be the path he goes down.
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2010-07-24, 04:06 | Link #507 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Italy
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About Priscilla i hope she doesn't die now,but i REALLY hope she won't win this battle 'cause if she continues to be "the emotionless untouchable queen" 4ever she'll be a monodimensional character and quite boring.I want Claire to reinstall a bit of fear (and if not fear at least considering Claire a worthy opponent) in her causing maybe some sort of fight between her human self and her awakened self once she gets back her memories.
I hope that in the end (not now) Claire will give up on her vendetta and instead help Priscilla to return "human". |
2010-07-24, 04:07 | Link #508 | |
The Invisible Me.
Join Date: May 2010
Location: New York
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The thing is, Priscilla herself isn't especially irredeemable as far as villains go. She's killed lots of people, yes, but Yagi has often gone out of his way to portray it as either done in relative innocence (Extra Scene 3 where she clearly doesn't quite "get" what's going on) or as a last resort after offering someone a chance to retreat instead. Even the big thing that so many people can't stop hating her for - the death of Teresa - was done on orders from someone else, in the genuine belief that Teresa was evil and while Priscilla herself was in the midst of a breakdown at best and already psychologically awakened at worst. (I'm not debating the whole "was it the claymore or the yoma thing, GDI. I'm just saying either way, she wasn't right in the head at the time). Not to mention all those years spent showing her as a moe waif with Isley and then with Raki. He's definitely laid the groundwork for it to be believable if he feels like going that route, and it's not as though she'd be the first villain to be redeemed in the history of storytelling (or even the one with the worst crimes attributed to her name), with or without dying afterward. It's one of the more common storytelling tropes, so there's nothing inconceivable about it, really. I think, rather than there being something inherently irredeemable about her character, it's more often a case of many fans simply not wanting to see her redeemed because they're mad at her/can't or won't forgive her for one or another thing she's done, or because they're invested in the idea of Clare achieving her revenge. Basically because they wouldn't find it as satisfying. As for me, I could go either way. If I were forced to lay down money on one or another outcome, based on Yagi's pattern so far I'd say "redemption + death" but considering that she's a much more important character than say, Riful or Isley (more important to the plot, not necessarily to any given fan), it's pretty up in the air. She could be used to counter his redemptive themes or to solidify them. (Ps. Thanks for the link, Joe_fh! ) Last edited by alovelyburn; 2010-07-24 at 04:31. |
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2010-07-24, 05:30 | Link #509 | |
Angriest Angel
Join Date: Nov 2007
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A propos raki,
where is gangsta ? Quote:
I know others see this point in a different way but therefore for me the only place where priscilla should return to is the earth and the dust.
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2010-07-24, 05:33 | Link #510 | ||
Transient Guest
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Canada
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You have a very strange definition of attack. The only person I meant to be negative about was Raki - and by my standards, not even that much. If anyone is attacking anyone, it's you attacking me for daring not to like that idiot. Not only that, but you continue to persist this. To me, because I vehemently disagree with it, it was/is a provocative statement. To you it's not, because you agree with it. In all the posts I've read, I can't recall more than one or maybe two where someone claimed to change their opinion of him post time skip. What there is, I admit, a whole bunch more people now who post openly liking him (Have you no shame people?!? ), but few who changed their minds on him. The fact there's less "I hate Raki" posts can be for a number of reasons - the changing readership of the forums, as well as your own vociferous response to anyone who utters any words against him (honestly... neg rep for disliking the guy...). Just because no one bothers to stand up to your views anymore, doesn't necessarily mean your views are mainstream. It could just as well simply mean that you made it a nuisanse enough opposing your thoughts to segrate yourselves into a like minded group. This isn't just limited to Raki either. It applies to theories here too. For example, months and months ago, some people thought that Priscilla would join the ghosts. Well, I had my say, said what I thought would happen, and let people continue to aspouse their own theories. People discussed, and discussed, and discussed... fast forward to sometime in the last 2 months and someone recently posted something along the lines of: "as of a few months ago, nearly all of us thought Priscilla would join the ghosts". What's left to do than to roll your eyes? Sure a lot of the discussion was about that - but those who didn't believe it had their say early and let the matter go. From reading those chapter threads though, you'd swear the view was a consensus though from the sheer number of posts. (Just to note - I'm not critisizing the theory [despite never having agreed with it] - I've been wrong on many theories myself and theorizing is most of the fun here. I'm simply using it to show how it can be made to appear there is a consensus when some of the regular posters repeat something often enough.) Quote:
Honestly - if you don't like my posts, just ignore them. I'm not forcing you to read them, so feel free to do as you like. If the only thing you're noticing in my posts is Raki bashing, you're missing 95% of the content anyways. |
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2010-07-24, 05:42 | Link #511 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Australia
Age: 36
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I'd personally prefer that the only form of redemption she has is something as she is dying rather than any actions in themselves (e.g suddenly fighting on the ghosts side). @cyclone , you can tell your view is the minority based on group numbers you said it youself members of the "i hate raki" fanclub is 13 (most are members who have not shown up for along time ), on the other hand the raki followers fanclub has 31 , so a big difference. If u wish to pretend in your mind that everyone secretly hates Raki but my own opinions causes them to hide it then you are free to do so. I was actually referring to comments I have read on the other forums such as OM & MF who have said that their view on Raki had changed after the timeskip.
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2010-07-24, 05:52 | Link #513 | |
The Invisible Me.
Join Date: May 2010
Location: New York
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Turning her back to her Claymore self might address the power problem (assuming she returned to the power level she had as a rookie Claymore instead of her ultimate potential or anything like it)... but even then, it seems like that would really be playing with fire considering that if she ever awakened again everyone would be in a really bad situation... again. About the only way I can see her getting out of the series alive is if they somehow depower her. But who knows, Yagi's pretty twisty. |
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2010-07-24, 05:58 | Link #514 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Australia
Age: 36
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Quote:
It would feel odd though Priscilla suddenly being good and she would face alot of distrust from all claymores for what she is which may throw her on the bad side again (that if everything still thinks she is a villain that she may as well act like a villain) The best form of atonement she could perform at her level of power would be to get sent over to the mainland & stop the war one way or another (kill the leaders of both sides + demand they cease fire or she will kill them all)
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2010-07-24, 07:30 | Link #515 | |||
Time-diver
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Location is all relative.
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-The same could be said about the reverse too. Just because the majority seems to think favourably about a certain character, it doesn't mean that the majority is wrong in their thinking. Rather, if it is the majority that seems to have moved on from the days of old, they probably do not want to be constantly reminded of it. Its like an anti-Nazi protestor ever endlessly stating arguments against the Nazi regime despite it no longer existing and the world having recovered from the tragedies of WWII. Or to put it in a bit more relevant way: it would be like complaining that Rigald needs to suffer despite having been dead for a long time. The theory portion of your post I left out because these are the portions that are bound to get you opposition. Just my 2 cents.
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2010-07-24, 08:16 | Link #516 |
Thread Hijacker
Join Date: May 2009
Location: In a hole, I just need to dig myself out
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What.The.Heck
I was not intending for this to go so far, nor was I intending for my post to be considered provocative; I was merely stating, what I believe, to be an accurate observation: that times have changed in the way people view the characters. My post really wasn't even about Raki as much as it was about this point. A year ago for example, If I said that I liked Clarice, people would have looked at me with skepticism, uninterest, and laughter. Now, people either agree with me, or they respect my opinion regardless. That's the change: people are more into and appreciative of more characters, and people are not so " " about other people liking characters that they themselves may not like, which I think is the best change. All I said was, that he has grown into a popular character which is undeniable; I never said that he has grown into everyone's favorite character. Both of you, Cyclone and Kenshin, are seemingly failing to read my post as I intended and are just using it as an excuse to have a Pro/Anti-Raki war with eachother. You both can live or dislike whatever characters you want, but please don't use my post as an excuse if you're missing my point. That said; I'm promptly staying out of it, though I will use what Cyclone said about his dislike for Claire/Raki because the older-woman/younger-boy thing is questionable to him, to post my own views on the matter here, since it's different(http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...postcount=2601). I personally believe it's one of my best posts I've made on the website, so I like posting it every now and then. I will say this though: Cyclone, don't say something like "I don't care if people read my posts" because that's just downright silly and a lie. I can't believe you like spending your time here, collecting and posting your thoughts consistantly, and not caring if people even what you say a second look. As for Priscilla, while Raciella joining the Ghosts has basically faded away, it's still possible she will have an alliance with the Ghosts, the same way it's possible she may de-power into a half-awakened. I've already gone into several views and theories on her future in this thread, but for the most part, I've basically made it clear that I am a fan of hers and don't want her to die, so my preferred theories are the ones that doesn't end in her death. I believe the most likely route that will be taken is one that I said before which is similar to the anime: that Claire will "defeat" Priscilla, but will not go in for the kill for whatever reason. I don't think it's possible, nor am I crazy for it, but I still think it's what will probably end up happening so fans will feel some appease if Claire beats Priscilla in combat.
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Last edited by Shiek927; 2010-07-24 at 09:19. |
2010-07-24, 09:31 | Link #517 |
mangaviking
Join Date: Jun 2009
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since changing opinions were mentioned I shall come out of hiding and add to the mix of emotions and opinions that while I used to dislike Raki a lot, since the timeskip he has in the very least become a much more interesting character. I shall wait on calling him likeable till I see what the Org turns him into
I should also like to add that it is my feeling that some people take this topic way to personal. I'll leave it to you to feel adressed or not
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2010-07-24, 09:41 | Link #518 | |
Thread Hijacker
Join Date: May 2009
Location: In a hole, I just need to dig myself out
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Quote:
Why, I don't know, but the kid's like a nuclear bomb that's waiting to go off .
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2010-07-24, 09:56 | Link #519 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Australia
Age: 36
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Unless im mistaken , Priscilla died in the video game which may count as more "cannon" if thats the term (tried to check up on it but there is no faq in english ), but in the game though when she transforms into her pure yoki form all her sense of self disappears (perhaps an early hint of the destroyer? or just a coincidence). I found it interesting that the video game did not follow the same idea as the anime & may technically be more official since im not sure if yagi had more direct involvement in the video game than the anime (i know he didn't have to much to do with the anime creation) so you could be right, a similar ending to the anime or possibly more closer to the video game (or it may go on a totally different angle all together) but I don't want claymore finishing any time soon
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2010-07-24, 10:00 | Link #520 |
Thread Hijacker
Join Date: May 2009
Location: In a hole, I just need to dig myself out
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Roflmao, Kenshin, the game was an even bigger joke then the anime. You just can't make Claymore into a side-scroller. Their's no way the game could ever concievably be considered canon; I haven't seen any evidence that Yagi was involved because, if he was, he would make the game follow the manga, not deviant even more then the anime.
The game was just a cash-in for the fans, plain and simple. Yes, that's partly why I dislike any thoughts of Priscilla dying; because her death would be the final straw in Claymore's ending. If she ever does die, she needs to die right when the manga is basically ending for it to even feel good. She is one of the final bastions that has been around since the very beginning. Don't worry
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