Guilty Crown - Episode 18 Discussion / Poll

[Same_Shark]

Originally Posted by Team Rocket Elite

She shot him because he tried to kill her. She wasn't exactly unaffected by it. You could hear it in her tone of voice when she said "Grandfather" after she shot him and how she was angry at the person who said she did a good job for killing her grandfather.

Yes, he did try to kill her. Not because of what she did to Shu, but because she dishonored him by being so addicted to Gai, and the position she THOUGHT she was going to get. His plan was simply for her to escape and return home. And after shooting him, she was pretty much like "Oh grandpa...MY MAN AWAITS!!! Teehee!" That's the way it made me feel anyway.

[DarkyPwnz]

I want to see Gai using Arisa's void then getting rid of it. I want her to scream and cry as she is being crystalized.

[Trudinh]

so everyone in this forum think shu going to get a new arm ( power )? because of the OP video show he have a new arm.

what happen if shu attack gai, cut off his hand some how and get his power back.
Anyone though of that?

[Soji]

Originally Posted by Trudinh

so everyone in this forum think shu going to get a new arm ( power )? because of the OP video show he have a new arm.

what happen if shu attack gai, cut off his hand some how and get his power back.
Anyone though of that?

Read this post...think at the new gai...think how shu is now..
I think is impossible for shu do this ,not only because he is without power...but really can you see him do something like*cut one arm like Neo-gai?*
And not forgot that Shu is...25% of his true healt for now? Is not in his top shape.

[Trudinh]

How will he gain a new power? In the op, It show that crystal is about to cover him up. maybe gai take shu void out and break it, then a new arm appear ^^.

[Xaturas]

Originally Posted by Trudinh

How will he gain a new power? In the op, It show that crystal is about to cover him up. maybe gai take shu void out and break it, then a new arm appear ^^.

3rd void genome provided by Haruka.
Was already pointed out many times, go to spoiler section.



For Arisa and grandfather fight, he held back (stopped the sword otherwise Gai would need to sew her back into 1 piece), she on the other hand didn't, tells you all about what a human being she is.

[Haak]

The idea that you can judge someone on such single acts of emotion is ridiculous if you ask me. Her grandfather holding back was somewhat commendable (though his reasons for attacking in the first place...) but should never be used as a standard. Now I'm sure that there are plenty of us with enough faith in our grandfathers that we can witness them kill two people in cold blood and then run towards us with a sword with a clear intent on killing us, that we'd give them the benefit of the doubt and trust they'll hold back at the last second, but I don't think it's reasonable to expect the same for everyone. I am therefore, not exactly impressed with the Guilty Crown writers for trying to make us think it is but then again this is the same group of people that think a good way of treating PTSD is by pointing a gun at them...

What I find most troubling though is that the show is apparently saying you can compare the two actions when you can't. Her grandfather made a conscious decision to attack which he could consciously reconsider. Arisa couldn't do anything of the sort. She didn't make any conscious decision to shoot her grandfather that she could've reconsidered. She just acted in self defence without the benefit of being able to think it through the same way her grandfather could.

[Xaturas]

Originally Posted by Haak

Arisa couldn't do anything of the sort. She didn't make any conscious decision to shoot her grandfather that she could've reconsidered. She just acted in self defence without the benefit of being able to think it through the same way her grandfather could.

Just like she made all her previous conscious decisions, like spreading her legs, betraying her *friends*, becoming some low level grunt in shady organization and all of that for a Messiah who she supposedly love.

Frankly I don't care about her as she has about 95% of being dead before the series end, but still ...

[Haak]

Originally Posted by Xaturas

Just like she made all her previous conscious decisions, like spreading her legs, betraying her *friends*, becoming some low level grunt in shady organization and all of that for a Messiah who she supposedly love.

Just like? Does that mean you think she made a conscious decision to kill her grandfather? Why so?

In any case all of those are besides the point. After all you did say that Arisa shooting her grandfather "tells you all about what a human being she is".

Besides you already know my position on her "spreading her legs" and "betraying her friends", so I don't think there's any need for me to bring those up again, especially when they happened last episode and this thread is supposed to be about this episode.

The only thing I can really blame Arisa for is aligning herself to an organisation of mass murderers all because Gai is their leader and frankly I don't understand why. Her blind love of Gai to the point that she'd be willing to work with people she knows are mass murderers, strikes me as so exaggerated it's OOC. So all the attempts the writers have come up with to make Arisa look as horrible as possible strike me as contrived and forced which is why I can't really find it in myself to hate her. (After all, you can't really hate a character when all the attempts to make you hate the character fall flat. The devices used simply doesn't have the desired effect).

But obviously that's not the case for everyone. Considering the amount of hate you have towards Arisa, I'm guessing you think her actions have been very convincing and not a result of bad wriitng. Does that mean you think her blind love of Gai is believable and not sudden?

[Xaturas]

Originally Posted by Haak

The only thing I can really blame Arisa for is aligning herself to an organisation of mass murderers all because Gai is their leader and frankly I don't understand why. Her blind love of Gai to the point that she'd be willing to work with people she knows are mass murderers, strikes me as so exaggerated it's OOC. So all the attempts the writers have come up with to make Arisa look as horrible as possible strike me as contrived and forced which is why I can't really find it in myself to hate her. (After all, you can't really hate a character when all the attempts to make you hate the character fall flat. The devices used simply doesn't have the desired effect).

But obviously that's not the case for everyone. Considering the amount of hate you have towards Arisa, I'm guessing you think her actions have been very convincing and not a result of bad wriitng. Does that mean you think her blind love of Gai is believable and not sudden?

First lets clarify one thing, I don't hate Arisa, to be frank I was sad for her when she gave up her purity. For now I'm more neutral than hateful towards her. ( I just can't get myself into hating someone I don't care about, she can die or she don't need to its not like her existence matter)

However I cannot miss one point. We can have and probably do have a different opinions.

For me Arisa was infatuated with Gai since her waking up on the ship after Missile Ship Episode. So her following Gai every footstep and taking his every word as the words of God wasn't a surprise.
That means all Arisa decisions in second season was more or less her obvious choices (besides her getting shafted from president position).

In my view She did spread her legs and she did betray Shu because Gai asked her to (indirectly). Maybe not in person but I'm sure GHQ brought him into the equation.
Taking Arisa contacts with "organisation of mass murderers" as you call them, and following with their orders, already makes her conscious and responsible for all of her actions.
That's why in my opinion she clearly did what she did because she was swayed/persuaded by GHQ/Gai, it wasn't some kind of self preservation or some pitiful revenge. It was all to make her one and only master Gai happy.
In this episode you can see how pissed she is, that even thought she screwed with some lowlife and betrayed people who helped her, Gai still doesn't give a heck about her and only cares about obtaining Inori.
She thought that after all her hijinks her prince Gai would ride on white horse and take her to his tower, to live happily together. I get that opinion after her not so surprised face when Gai showed up, and her "WTF why you no love me" face after Gai put her down to the place she belongs.

[Evil_Sephiroth]

Ep 19 preview with a probable translation (found it in video comments then I don't know if it's real or a trolling^^)

Spoiler:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYq-i...eature=related


I need to recover my right arm in order to get Inori back but where can I find it? In all the chaos, Haruka escaped from Area 24 carrying the last Void Genome. That and Segai's surprise completely changed Funeral Parlor's members fates. Everyone, bear with me! I have decided to fight to the end and I will cut through this imperial reign! Next episode... Rebirth. I will undertake the Guilty Crown!

[syke123]

Originally Posted by Xaturas

First lets clarify one thing, I don't hate Arisa, to be frank I was sad for her when she gave up her purity. For now I'm more neutral than hateful towards her. ( I just can't get myself into hating someone I don't care about, she can die or she don't need to its not like her existence matter)

However I cannot miss one point. We can have and probably do have a different opinions.

For me Arisa was infatuated with Gai since her waking up on the ship after Missile Ship Episode. So her following Gai every footstep and taking his every word as the words of God wasn't a surprise.
That means all Arisa decisions in second season was more or less her obvious choices (besides her getting shafted from president position).

In my view She did spread her legs and she did betray Shu because Gai asked her to (indirectly). Maybe not in person but I'm sure GHQ brought him into the equation.
Taking Arisa contacts with "organisation of mass murderers" as you call them, and following with their orders, already makes her conscious and responsible for all of her actions.
That's why in my opinion she clearly did what she did because she was swayed/persuaded by GHQ/Gai, it wasn't some kind of self preservation or some pitiful revenge. It was all to make her one and only master Gai happy.
In this episode you can see how pissed she is, that even thought she screwed with some lowlife and betrayed people who helped her, Gai still doesn't give a heck about her and only cares about obtaining Inori.
She thought that after all her hijinks her prince Gai would ride on white horse and take her to his tower, to live happily together. I get that opinion after her not so surprised face when Gai showed up, and her "WTF why you no love me" face after Gai put her down to the place she belongs.

I thought that Arisa got a call from Gai/GHQ after Inori/Mana slit her wrist. If so then wasn't she sane until then? She couldn't rely on her grandfather for support so she was relieved after Gai called her, and in the emotional state of mind that she was in, she mistook him for her saviour. Maybe she would of stayed neutral if Inori hadn't overreacted.

[DragoZERO]

I am glad the glasses kid died, lol.
I
Boy are things rushing though. We spent too much time with Shu being a pansy. This should have been two episodes. I am looking forward to seeing Shu get his new arm.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Haak

But obviously that's not the case for everyone. Considering the amount of hate you have towards Arisa, I'm guessing you think her actions have been very convincing and not a result of bad wriitng. Does that mean you think her blind love of Gai is believable and not sudden?

I can see Arisa falling hard for Gai. I think some Guilty Crown first half episodes hinted very heavily at that too.

And I think that when someone falls hard for another person that can cloud moral judgement. Think of the Stockholm Syndrome, where a girl may fall in love with her own kidnapper, who of course is in the process of doing something illegal and shady and potentially very harmful.

I honestly find Arisa to be a pretty well-written character. At least by GC's standards.


Also, I don't exactly hate her. I think any misfortune that falls upon her will be of a poetic Greek Tragedy nature where her own critical flaws proved to be her undoing.

Arisa's deep emotional weakness and insecurity has truly lead her into making some bad choices, imo.

[djmaca]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Also, I don't exactly hate her. I think any misfortune that falls upon her will be of a poetic Greek Tragedy nature where her own critical flaws proved to be her undoing.

Like Medea's? or Circe's? or that unnamed nymph in the Odyssey?

And while I fail to see which tragedy we can compare this to, I would gladly see her undoing. Betraying Shu was one thing. But killing your own grandfather?

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by djmaca

or Circe's?

Mildly similar to Circe, yeah.

But it's more the general idea of being undone by a chief character flaw that you just never get over. With Arisa it's her emotional weakness and insecurity causing her to chase after strength in other people (men, mostly) instead of taking the necessary steps for her to become stronger herself and hence take the stands that she probably should have taken.

And while I fail to see which tragedy we can compare this to, I would gladly see her undoing. Betraying Shu was one thing. But killing your own grandfather?

Probably the most fitting end for Arisa would be for her to die protecting Sir Gai from Shu or Inori... and then for Sir Gai to not lament over her at all. It would be sad, but pretty fitting.

I have this gut feeling that Arisa isn't going to survive the entire anime.

[evil|plushie]

the most fitting end for arisa would actually be to die from Gai's own actions. that would be the proper greek tragedy

[Flawfinder]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

I have this gut feeling that Arisa isn't going to survive the entire anime.

And she'll be doing me a favor.

Honestly, I don't HATE Arisa, but I never liked her to begin with. I don't like any of these characters at all.

[grylsyjaeger]

Man this show just keeps getting me down.

The characters finally get a bit of a break then something always rears it's head and fucks them over.

It is nice to see a shift in Inori's behavior and her devotion to Shu is nice.

But I'll say this now since I pretty much binged all eighteen episodes yesterday...

HARE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

God dammit. Give me back my heart!

[~Yami~]

Originally Posted by evil|plushie

the most fitting end for arisa would actually be to die from Gai's own actions. that would be the proper greek tragedy

yup! Gai should use Arisa's void to defend against another missiles or nuclear weapons from United Nations... that way, her void will be shattered...
well, I never expect she will be like this from beginning...

regarding the preview, honestly I prefer if Shu and Inori go together to kick Gai's ass... It's another boring plot if Inori was hostaged AGAIN and Shu will gather Funeral Parlor's members to help him again...