2009-06-20, 04:51 | Link #161 | |||||||
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I would want her to take action, but not by closed-mindedly rejected his views, not considering his deeds, and finally said they couldn’t be in the same team because their way of thinking was different. Quote:
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2009-06-20, 06:35 | Link #162 | ||||||
Disputatio exaro nex
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Turkey
Age: 40
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Rick elaborated on pretty much everything but I'll still reply to your earlier message.
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- She didn't go berserk, it was the goat. It controls the person once he's done that. - As such, she didn't risk anyone with the cannon. It was not her choice. - She had already passed out when Savaris attacked. She forced her views onto nobody, she just didn't want to have an underling that stood against her principles, which was her just right as a superior. We're all aware that everyone's weak compared to Layfon (maybe save for the queen) so what's the deal? |
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2009-06-20, 07:33 | Link #163 | ||||||
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About his crimes, In Grendan, everyone knew and shunned him and he has been punished. In Zuellni he's an irreplacable asset, Kallian knew he was to valuable to replace. He'd rather dump Nina than Layfon. That, combined with all his deeds. Where she pales in comparison. Quote:
Dozen HBs? They'd be too busy fending off Ignasis' armies and the FM. So far Savaris' the only one appointed to retreive the goat which may be held off by Layfon. The threat may be deterred. Quote:
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- she knew she couldnt control it, the Haikizoku finally possesed her, naturally her team got worried and finally chased her with the risk being shot at. Finally getting beaten up by an HB in the process. These events equals to trouble. Caused by her own insistence in hiding the secret. Forced her views against nobody because she didn't her underling go against her principle as a superior? What the heck is that? you can have any kind of principle as long you keep doing your duty as a good soldier. That's what Layfon did, combined with his feats back then with his role as an irreplaceable military asset. If Nina's somebody's subordinate and then her captain said that he didn't like her idealistic principles, so she must changed them, it would sound ridiculous. Phew. |
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2009-06-20, 08:28 | Link #164 | ||||||
Disputatio exaro nex
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Turkey
Age: 40
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And once again you're ignoring another fact: Layfon would be transferred to another platoon, Nina just didn't want to work in the same platoon. I don't understand how you can blatantly insist on something's not even implied. Quote:
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Leerin is clueless about haikizoku's nature and what to do with it. Layfon can't protect her against 99% of the people and monsters we saw in the anime. The troubles cannot be avoided. No, you cannot earn dirty money relying on your title and wound a witness. Such a person would never be given any position in any military, ever. Still, in Regios setting this particular guy is god-like and that's why the president makes an exception. Still, if the journalist girl made his past a newspaper story, things could get very sour for him. It's not just Nina's principles, it's the living creed of all military artists. |
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2009-06-20, 09:17 | Link #165 | ||||||
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Yes she could removed him out from the squad, which unfortunately for Layfon, she didn't. And Nina can return on being ordinary again. Quote:
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Besides if not Leerin, Nina would've had Layfon who's capable on subduing the goat singlehandedly as shown in ep 23. More reason why she should've told them sooner. Quote:
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And in terms of usefullness, it was Layfon and Felli who did the most part. Nina was in the back in awe because she couldn't do a thing within her powers but to rely on Layfon. Quote:
Yes this is Regios, a cruel and polluted world where people lived out of fear being consumed by beasts outside their city premises. Exactly why people like Layfon is required. In Zuellni he had been both a good soldier and citizen, saving people be them civil or millitary. If only Nina had realized all his deeds in Zuellni. Finally the living creed of each military artists differs from eachother, such as the Psyhardens, Salinvan Mercenaries and the Heaven Blades. |
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2009-06-20, 10:46 | Link #166 | ||||||||
Disputatio exaro nex
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Yeah, just removing from squad, not city. I hope we reached an understanding there. Quote:
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And no, it wouldn't be prevented by them as I explained thoroughly and gave the reasons why. I also told about the factions who wanted to extract the goat, who are EVERYONE except platoon 17. Quote:
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2009-06-20, 11:19 | Link #167 | ||||||||
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2009-06-20, 11:45 | Link #168 | ||||||
Disputatio exaro nex
Join Date: May 2009
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Add another fact to this: President would still order it to get removed so they'd have to either beat whole city into submission or totally destroy it because Czellni's fairy also resides within Nina now. They cannot even leave the city because that would spell its doom. Quote:
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2009-06-20, 12:06 | Link #169 | ||||||
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The president? No, because Zuellni is with her so they’re basically inside the city. It’s because Nina went haywire outside that the prez gave that order. Quote:
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2009-06-20, 12:36 | Link #170 | |||||
Disputatio exaro nex
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Turkey
Age: 40
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The president wants the goat out because it's intervening with the city's movement already before the mask appeared, that's why they're sitting ducks in front of Grendan. Watch ep 23 again please. Quote:
By the same logic, Layfon should have let the goat possess him back then and none of this would have happened. Your argument relies on too many ifs with no certified methods proven. Quote:
- The orphans he fed spit on his face. - The city he protected booed him. - The student of the man he wounded wants to kill him. - His queen exiled him. - President blackmails him. - Haia wants to kill him. ALL THE PEOPLE WHO KNOW OF HIS MISDEEDS SHUNS/CONDEMNS/WANTS TO KILL HIM, IT IS NOT ONLY NINA'S PRINCIPLES. Please watch the whole series again if you cannot remember such a topic that was presented throughout nearly every second episode. |
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2009-06-20, 13:12 | Link #171 | ||||||
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I consider that to be uneven. Layfon is right one in this case. Quote:
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Yes your right, but basically Zuellni stopped moving because the goat activates. Which again could’ve been prevented should she told this issue earlier with Layfon and Leerin being there. Kallian? There's Felli and Layfon, he needed them and would've heed to their advices which is not to kill Nina. Quote:
And the goat couldn’t possess Layfon because he’s could resist it. Nina should’ve realized this in ep 17 but she insisted on fighting the goat instead waiting for back up, ended up her being possessed. Though she’s trying Zuellni nevertheless she screwed up. Quote:
My previous posts, Quote:
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2009-06-20, 16:41 | Link #172 | |||||||
Disputatio exaro nex
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Turkey
Age: 40
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This has turned into one of those epic duels that lasts 3 days and 3 nights.
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There's also the fact that it was only the queen's initiative that he was spared from the axe and we heard nothing good about him from any other HB users so far. So his misdeeds are universally against all military artists' creeds. |
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2009-06-20, 17:35 | Link #173 |
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Trueknight: your statements origins mainly from your perspective and not from the characters'. That's the problem. We, people such a beings that can't perdict the future or read others' mind lesiurely...That's why we consider decisions as good ones if they're using our best knownledge and counting in the circumstances.
Examples:-Nina's coldness towards Layfon after she learned the truth:He stated it that way to be misunderstood. I bet the only the ones with distanced view, like Felli or the ones like Leerin, who knows Layfon well enough who's not misinterpreted that. -Using Layfon: At least it bothers her...they can't do it otherwise so it's can't be helped. And the time when she "confessed" herself that she's only bothered about Layfons injury because of the interplatoon match just a way to decieve herself. She's, like Layfon has an extreme amount of self-hatred, and she similary like convince herself about her badness. Actions may later proved to be wrong or worse than another decision but we can't help it. Your expectations about Nina are inhuman. And other thing actions are judged by not only the act and result, but by the intentions, state of mind and knownledge too. As I said formerly you often miss the other three or at least two. Not to mention that no matter how good a person, everyone's selfish a little bit and that means they're acting selfish somethimes at the very least.Nina's rush towards Vanze was iselfish, hiding the truth about the Haikizokou was selfish too.But they're excusable a bit and they're nothing compared to her selfless actions.(Not to mention that both areless weighted if we think about it:A.) No matter what Vanze would've outsmarted and defeated them, B.) Not only Nina but everyone would be scared shitless after an experience like that and they would've shut their mouths about it...be it Felli, Layfon, Sharnid, Gorneo, Vanze, Karian etc...and they have much less problem with that) I hope my post doesn't look arrogant or pompous. I didn't want to write it that way if that's the case. |
2009-06-20, 19:15 | Link #174 | ||||||
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[quote=Ultramarinus] First of all, she couldn't give a break without letting out the reason. Second is that Myath battle is what she's been looking towards in these last years. She was alright up until ep 22 anyway. Did you ever see Leerin and Layfon talking or thinking about how to suppress it after their exchange at the hospital? No. That shows that they still have no idea what to do about it. [/quot] In all roundup, she was unfit to lead because she knew she was sick, without considering the effect of what could’ve happen midway should the goat activates, which she realized she also couldn’t control it. She also hid her secret when should she should’ve exposed them in ep 20 to avoid further trouble earlier on. Leerin and Layfon couldn’t even think about it because she already went missing in the first place and they’reall pre-occupied in finding her. Quote:
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2009-06-20, 20:07 | Link #175 | |||||||
Disputatio exaro nex
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And I'm very much sure that all of the cities would harshly punish a MA who uses his title for personal gain and wound a witness. We see that it goes as far as capital punishment. Do you honestly believe that there would be a city that would let that go? |
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2009-06-20, 23:08 | Link #176 | |||||||
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2009-06-21, 04:19 | Link #178 |
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lol...
Ultramarinus' and TrueKnight's continued discussion and exchange of ideas are certainly entertaining...makes me wonder where i stand...but certainly i'm pro-Nina... gonna miss reading their posts now that csr has come to an end... but still...i think TK should not be that harsh on bashing and attacking Nina...she's not perfect but certainly not evil to deserve such hate... |
2009-06-21, 06:49 | Link #179 | |
Disputatio exaro nex
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Turkey
Age: 40
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Heh, thanks. I certainly enjoyed discussing myself but I guess it's time to bring it to a closure like the anime did. Maybe we can continue with the next season.
But before that, I'll reply to a newer topic that TK mentioned and thus explain why I'm wishing to end it now: Quote:
I think that shows the extent of your unreasonable criticism and while you have such an extreme, prejudiced bias towards characters, I doubt that anything I say will get through to you. Knowing that, it seems meaningless to continue exchanging mostly same issues as we should have already presented our cases clear enough to let others understand our arguments. So I want to end it with a reference to Gintama (ep 141, the 3-day long epic duel between Umibouzu and King of Night's end) which suits this perfectly: |
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2009-06-21, 07:06 | Link #180 | |
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Join Date: Jun 2004
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You say unreasonable criticism well for you at least its okay for Nina to exercise her free will to keep her secret and endangering people of Zuellni, with the exception if only she sacrificed herself, yet you’re blaming both Layfon and Felli for exercising their right. I see your playing double standard here but I hope you realize what I meant. Freedom of will existed whether in Nina, Layfon or Felli regardless what circumstances they are in, be it they strong or not, in the end, they’re after all, still human. It’s unfortunate in the end you deem my arguments as unreasonable and prejudiced, when you as well were the same. I was merely pointing out this fact. Nevertheless I enjoy our discussion. |
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