Romance in Macross

[justinstrife]

Originally Posted by ani_d

If I just wanted to ship them because it takes Sheryl out of the triangle then I would've done that in episode 8. This episode made me notice them and frankly I like what I'm seeing. Michael teasing Sheryl around is cute. Sheryl's "oh stop it" reactions are cute especially how much she bosses everyone around her. The two make a good team, and Michael can actually handle Sheryl lol I love Klan, but SherylxMichael are just fun to watch.

I'm surely gonna watch out for more SherylxMichael next episode. ^_^

uhhh... Since when can Michael handle Sheryl?

You really do like seeing what you want to see, and not what the audience is shown. She's already shot the man's advances in episode 8. She knows he's a player and isn't into that type of guy. Even if he's got a deeper side to him, he's also still a player. She knows that, and he does nothing for her in that regard.

[ani_d]

Originally Posted by justinstrife

uhhh... Since when can Michael handle Sheryl?

You really do like seeing what you want to see, and not what the audience is shown. She's already shot the man's advances in episode 8. She knows he's a player and isn't into that type of guy. Even if he's got a deeper side to him, he's also still a player. She knows that, and he does nothing for her in that regard.

Using Alto to tease her sure gets her to back down. Am I the only one who saw it work here? How weird.

[justinstrife]

Originally Posted by ani_d

Using Alto to tease her sure gets her to back down. Am I the only one who saw it work here? How weird.

Are you for real? Wow. You really think that's Michael handling her?

For real?

[ani_d]

I really can't explain it to someone who has shut off his mind to nothing but an AltoxSheryl pair. It would be useless. Besides, noone's forcing noone to like MichaelxSheryl. If you don't feel the two, then you don't. Simple. ^_^

[justinstrife]

Originally Posted by ani_d

I really can't explain it to someone who has shut off his mind to nothing but an AltoxSheryl pair. It would be useless. Besides, noone's forcing noone to like MichaelxSheryl. If you don't feel the two, then you don't. Simple. ^_^

So says the person who has shut them off to anything but Ranka x Alto. Yeah okay.

We have a word for someone like you. Hypocrite.

[Tsuchiro]

lol.... it's called a fucking triangle for a reason you know.

[ani_d]

I'm just amazed at your wisdom that you can actually conclude this without even reading my previous post and such. Whatever....

[nanatsusaya]

Originally Posted by ani_d

Besides, their friends noticed--Nanase, Luca, and Michael. Oh yea, even Bobby. They wouldn't push Ranka and Alto together if they haven't felt any romantic vibes coming from their platonic bond.

Oh please, let me give you better reasons:

Nanase pushs Ranka & Alto together because Ranka likes him and she's her best friend.
Luca pushs Ranka & Alto together because Ranka likes him and she's Nana's best friend and he likes her.
Mikhail pushs Ranka & Alto together because Ranka likes him and she's his boss' sister.

Between Ranka who's already their friend and Sheryl who's an idol but also completely stranger, of course they will support Ranka.

It's all about Ranka, Ranka, and Ranka.

Even after episode 4--episodes 5 to 10--when Ranka was cast aside by Sheryl and occupied Alto's time, Ranka never really lost any communication with Alto. They were still close as ever even if Sheryl was spending more time with Alto. How did this happen? Techinically, the story was looking at Ranka's side of the boat, but storywise, this can only mean that Sheryl isn't doing a good job attracting Alto.

Alto never called her first or actively sought for her. It's always Ranka who calls him and asks for his advice. Hell, he didn't even look the least interested when Ranka got scouted and to think she wanted to tell him first

The difference here is, the love triangle was told through Ranka's POV. That's what convinced me that AltoxRanka is going to happen. She was shown to be the underdog because the story deliberately makes it look that way. It's on her side, matching her sad expressions with BGMs, making the people around her to support her in her love, making Sheryl look like an obstacle to her in career and love again lol This is what made audience get a peek inside Ranka's head. I don't see the story doing the exact same thing to Sheryl in future episodes though I wouldn't put it past them to finally let the audience get inside her head and know more about her once her character gets fleshed out.

Actually, it made the audience get tired of sympathizing (I tempted to use the word 'pity' ) the damsel in distress. That card is old.

The story won't do the exact same thing to Sheryl because she doesn't need anyone's pity. She got crushed and stood up alone, leaving no room for misery or despair.

[justinstrife]

Originally Posted by nanatsusaya

Actually, it made the audience get tired of sympathizing (I tempted to use the word 'pity' ) the damsel in distress. That card is old.

The story won't do the exact same thing to Sheryl because she doesn't need anyone's pity. She got crushed and stood up alone, leaving no room for misery or despair.

Actually, ani_d's argument about everything being put through Ranka's POV so she MUST GET ALTO, only strengthens the odds of her not getting Alto. It's a perfect setup for her to go through the ups and downs of career, of love, of finding out her past, and eventually growing up and moving on.

She has the most growth potential of any character in the story(however most of it seems to be lost in the "please save me alto i'm a helpless moe in distress" instead of real character development). Just that fact alone, makes it more likely, that as she'll find love, she'll also find heart-break.

[Tak]

Originally Posted by ani_d

I'm just amazed at your wisdom that you can actually conclude this without even reading my previous post and such. Whatever....

I read your posts all the time.

And I am equally amazed at your wisdom that you can actually see Mikhail teasing Sheryl to be some sort of an indication that Michael can actually handle Sheryl.

How is that handling Sheryl? Sheryl was the one who wanted to go with, or without Mikhail. The only thing Mikhail done during his conversation with her was to tease her. It made no impact upon Sheryl's actions, which were decided long before that conversation. If that is handling, then Grace already commenced her equal share in earlier episodes. Does that mean anything in particular? No.

As usual, you are trying to force us into believing that somehow such is an indication for Sheryl's possible interest in Mikhail. Yeah... sure. So says the unrepentant Alto x Ranka shipper. Its ok to see only what you want to see and hear what you want to hear, just as long as any pairing doesn't get in your way, no matter how far fetched it might be, right?

And if by handling, Alto handled Mikhail all the way back in episode 9, just as Quran handled Mikhail, literally. But I wouldn't anticipate some sort of freakish Alto x Mikhail ending. You might, but thats not my problem, since I don't treat every friendly or intimate conversation as some sort of romantic indicator.


On a side note:

Yeah, and Minmei always had very friendly conversations with Hikaru, while Misa always had terrible hierarchal conversations with Hikaru. Minmei didn't end up with boyo, did she?

Of course, you are going to say, this is Macross F, not Macross 1982. That is fine, but since Macross made a precedent, followed by Macross II and Macross Zero, then certainly the arguments you are making may just not be as plausible as you think. But you are going to refuse to acknowledge that.

- Tak

[nanatsusaya]

Proof that not only Alto got captivated by Sheryl's... um, you know what.

Do I smell the start of a blossoming triangle?

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by crisis

In two episodes, Alto went from being a completely disinterested blockhead to a lovestruck fool sneaking glances at his new moe idol,

I think Michel's to blame for that. Alto never really paused to examine his own feelings, but Michel had to go and incite him to do that...

to screaming his anguish out at a level that even Sheryl picked up by the end of the episode.

Doesn't mean much one way or another. He screamed just as much for Luka.



Re: Michel x Sheryl. I know she's stuck in the Love Triangle, and he belongs to Klan, but they don't look that bad together when he's not in sleazy playboy mode.

Re: Alto's choice to have Michel and Sheryl save Ranka. It's actually pretty hard to interpret that choice. I think part of it is him holding a grudge, part of it is him wanting to have the most dangerous job, part of it is him wanting to keep Sheryl away from danger. Of course, that assumes he felt the rescue was more dangerous than the dogfight.

And it also shows his urgency in wanting Ranka rescued, I don't deny that. Or he might have wanted Michel and he to gang up on Brera and then go inside the mothership together.

[Wesley84]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

I think Michel's to blame for that. Alto never really paused to examine his own feelings, but Michel had to go and incite him to do that...

I don't think anything can really explain Alto losing his girl immunity, except maybe the power of Ranka's performance. I personally don't think that would have mattered to him, but if the writers and the director intended for her to have that kind of effect on him for that particular episode, so be it...

Doesn't mean much one way or another. He screamed just as much for Luka.

Yep, although it was more believeable when he did it for Ranka.

Re: Alto's choice to have Michel and Sheryl save Ranka. It's actually pretty hard to interpret that choice. I think part of it is him holding a grudge, part of it is him wanting to have the most dangerous job, part of it is him wanting to keep Sheryl away from danger. Of course, that assumes he felt the rescue was more dangerous than the dogfight.

Mostly I think it was because it was the obvious choice given the circumstances. The Vajra were getting away with Ranka and Alto already had his hands full with Bresa. Can't really imagine what they could realistically do though...

[Westlo]

Going by her track record of misunderstanding scenes is anyone else expecting BLeachOD to think Sheryl slept with Michael in this episode?

Also I'm rather happy that Innocent Green wasn't used as a bgm for Alto and Ranka, that second half of the song would be perfect for the Sheryl and Alto hook up scene Now all I need to see is the first half being used a few times in a few Alto and Sheryl scenes and I'll be even more confident in this "hunch".

Originally Posted by Darial

I'd bet on this as well. They are doing the classical mid-season slam on Sheryl right now. If this goes by the traditional playbook, this would set her up nicely for a comeback in the last couple episodes.

I'm surprised ani_d didn't quote you and go "More Kawamori history " than again she should know better since so much romance stories have gone that way. Like you said it's straight from the traditional play book Ranka shouldn't have any real relationship hardships for the next 5-7 episodes and Sheryl will be the one looking on in longing/pain.

Originally Posted by evil|plushie

I actually feel better now that Sheryl's the underdog in the love triangle. She was easily pwning Ranka in the first 12 episodes which made me worry about the romance twist at the end of the series.

This is why when I first read the spoiler for episode 13 even though my first thought was "fuck" I quickly realized this was a good thing. Sheryl has managed to avoid the "red herring" relationship and managed to build a good base to build off with Alto. She avoids the twist.... she will in fact be the late relationship twist... around the 19-22 point I will guess... and if they twist again it makes Alto look like an indecisive idiot... though I can see Alto "seemingly" leaning towards Ranka at the end of 24 before finally settling on Sheryl just to give the love triangle one last cliffhanger.

Originally Posted by crisis

Meh, I think we should stop using the underdog tag.

What tag should we use than? We can all agree that while she'll never be a pitiful underdog she's still in the underdog position though right? So anyone got a better term to use?

Originally Posted by ani_d

I wasn't this sensitive about BreraxRanka

Of course you weren't, you all but had one foot on that ship IIRC until you read a certain episode 13 spoiler that drastically changed your way of thinking on the triangle Went from saying "I don't want to talk about Ranka" to "Ranka and Alto is assured and I cannot see it going Sheryl's way!".

Using Alto to tease her sure gets her to back down. Am I the only one who saw it work here? How weird.

That would work amazingly well if Michael and Sheryl were in a relationship!

Originally Posted by Justin

Actually, ani_d's argument about everything being put through Ranka's POV so she MUST GET ALTO, only strengthens the odds of her not getting Alto. It's a perfect setup for her to go through the ups and downs of career, of love, of finding out her past, and eventually growing up and moving on.

That's why before in the past I've said that some of Ani_D's Ranka's POV arguments in a way bode well for a Sheryl ending. Keyboard already talked about this in an earlier post.

http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...&postcount=360

I was drawing the parallel between Ranka and Noe on Omni's blog around the same time. Clearly as this pic shows (and the reaction I've seen from it in a few places) me and Keyboard aren't the only two to think like that.

[mylenelovesgamlin]

hi. i'm erinn. i'm new. i've only seen 3 frontier eps. but could we go back to the
original macross. could someone tell me if hikaru loved misa more than minmay,
vise versa or if he loved both equally.

and why didn't he tell misa he loved her in the final ep. she told him that she
loved him..why couldn't he tell her he loved her.
oh, and doesn't it seem that minmay decided for rick b/c she walked away at the
end?
it seems like hikaru didn't decide b/w the girls & that minmay made the decision for him.

Also, re: macross 7
I think mylene knows what she has for basara is a silly school girl crush.
in the extra episode, she doesn't want her mom to arrange marriage to basara
b/c she can imagine what he'd say.
also, mylene would have said she couldn't marry gamlin long b/f his "death &
resurrection" but she never got the chance.
I do think she'll end up with him though.
also, i don't necessarily think gamlin was looking to get engaged when he
gave her the ring. he thought he was certain to die. i think the ring was just
a way for him to declare his love for her.

anyway, could someone tell me if mylene shows up in frontier because someone
said she was mentioned in frontier?

[Westlo]

Mylene only got mentioned in the Frontier manga not the anime.

[TwilightHack]

Originally Posted by mylenelovesgamlin

hi. i'm erinn. i'm new. i've only seen 3 frontier eps. but could we go back to the
original macross. could someone tell me if hikaru loved misa more than minmay,
vise versa or if he loved both equally.

Hey, glad to have you here.

Hikaru had strong feelings for both Minmei and Misa, but in the end he chose Misa. That's not to say he didn't love Minmei, it's clear that he did at some point.

and why didn't he tell misa he loved her in the final ep. she told him that she
loved him..why couldn't he tell her he loved her.
oh, and doesn't it seem that minmay decided for rick b/c she walked away at the
end?
it seems like hikaru didn't decide b/w the girls & that minmay made the decision for him.

You don't really need an on-screen "I love you" to signify that you do.

Also, Minmei didn't decide for Hikaru, he decided for himself. The moment he walked away from Minmei despite all her pleadings is a strong showing of such.

[justinstrife]

I still think Hikaru was a complete moron for falling for Minmei in the first place.

[squaresphere]

Minmei wasn't so bad in the beginning. She just got Deva'd out once she hit fame.

[TwilightHack]

Originally Posted by squaresphere

Minmei wasn't so bad in the beginning. She just got Deva'd out once she hit fame.

Not quite, I didn't like her as soon as she pulled that crap with Hikaru when they got trapped and freed the first time.

Just forgetting everything that happened like it was nothing... and then being a complete airhead? Nah, I'll pass on someone like that.

Originally Posted by justinstrife

I still think Hikaru was a complete moron for falling for Minmei in the first place.

DYRL Minmei wasn't that bad... I actually liked her.