AnimeSuki Forums

unsuspectingvisitor · 2011-12-25, 21:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by UsagiTenpura

Yeah that's also what I think.
Erika traps Battler with a ring./George traps Shannon with a ring.
And if you want speculation...
Battler fakes the first twilight./Beatrice fakes the fight twilight.
Erika really murders them./George really murders them.
Battler is stuck in a closed room and Erika is dangerously coming for him./Beatrice is stuck on Rokkenjima and George is dangerously coming for her.
The Shkanon trick is used to save Battler from Erika./The Shkanon trick is used to save Shannon from George.
Erika was trying to get the Gamemaster title and ring from Battler./George was trying to get the Ushiromiya heir title and ring from Shannon.
Battler kills Erika./Beatrice kills George.

SO does that mean George is the culprit?

AuraTwilight · 2011-12-25, 22:30

It's possible.

unsuspectingvisitor · 2011-12-26, 03:02

Battler said he was going to prove that he understood everything. Maybe he did that by telling us what the culprit is capable of without revealing his identity.

AuraTwilight · 2011-12-26, 03:25

Possible, but since the wording is that he would prove he understood "Beato's game", I would say that he demonstrated this through performing and understanding Beatrice's magic, reviving her through deception and desperation.

unsuspectingvisitor · 2011-12-26, 03:38

You're right. Maybe he was only talking about "Beatrice's game" or should i say the "Epitaph murder game".

AuraTwilight · 2011-12-26, 03:41

The context given was "Beatrice's Game" as in the gameboards. Anything like the "Epitaph murder game" isn't supported enough to be viable.

unsuspectingvisitor · 2011-12-26, 03:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by AuraTwilight

The context given was "Beatrice's Game" as in the gameboards. Anything like the "Epitaph murder game" isn't supported enough to be viable.

I not sure about that. Not every gameboard was Beatrice's game. Only 2 was confirm Ep1 and Ep2 gameboards.

But there's a hint that he was taking about the "Epitapt murder game". He showed us that the first twilight victim was faking their deaths and Ep6 gameboard was the only game that explicitly told us that the first twilight murder was fake.

AuraTwilight · 2011-12-26, 04:00

Well, they're all "Beatrice's game" because she created the gameboard and the rules and the setting and the story. It's like how Dungeons and Dragons is "Gary Gygax's game" even though he doesn't personally run every game session played across the world.

unsuspectingvisitor · 2011-12-26, 04:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by AuraTwilight

Well, they're all "Beatrice's game" because she created the gameboard and the rules and the setting and the story. It's like how Dungeons and Dragons is "Gary Gygax's game" even though he doesn't personally run every game session played across the world.

But the whole focal point of every Game board was the "Everyone died" theme that caused by Beatrice and her "Epitapt murder game".

Wait.. i think were on the same page here.

AuraTwilight · 2011-12-26, 04:23

IS it the focal point? We can't honestly say that for sure.

Anyway, the point isn't about the CONTENT so much about the construction and execution. Battler isn't demonstrating he knows the truth, here (how could he, when he's running a game with Erika in it?) he's running a game from Beatrice's point of view to demonstrate that he understands HER and how her game works. That's more important.

unsuspectingvisitor · 2011-12-26, 04:37

Well you're right about that. I don't have any rebuttal for that so i'll stop now.

I am finally done with EP6 and now on to the next EP.

Toku · 2012-01-10, 19:08

Would anyone be willing to share theories on the logic error? I'm stuck, I just don't see how it's even possible...

AuraTwilight · 2012-01-10, 19:14

What do you mean? There's a lot of parts to the Logic Error subject, what specifically is giving you trouble? Like, how Beatrice solved it?

Toku · 2012-01-10, 19:20

Yeah. I understand the theory with the window, but Kanon wasn't even in that room. And despite that, Beatrice's logic not only allows Kanon to leave the room in the guesthouse, but to also free Battler and then escape himself, leaving no one in the room. The door must be used in some way, in order to escape. There should be no method of getting around that... And yet, the chain lock absolutely must be set, and it must be set from the inside. And there's no one in the room?

Are they busting holes in the walls, or what? Technically, I think that would bypass the duct tape seals, but...

AuraTwilight · 2012-01-10, 20:22

The trick is that Kanon WAS in the room with the window...by virtue of being Shannon. As 'Kanon', she runs and saves Battler, sets the chain, and hides. Then she becomes 'Shannon' so that 'Kanon does not exist in this room'.

Toku · 2012-01-10, 20:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by AuraTwilight

The trick is that Kanon WAS in the room with the window...by virtue of being Shannon. As 'Kanon', she runs and saves Battler, sets the chain, and hides. Then she becomes 'Shannon' so that 'Kanon does not exist in this room'.

It'd be nice if it was that easy. However, that window can't be used, right? Even if it's Shannon. At the time that Beato reconfigured the logic, the use of that window was still forbidden.

LyricalAura · 2012-01-10, 20:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toku

It'd be nice if it was that easy. However, that window can't be used, right? Even if it's Shannon. At the time that Beato reconfigured the logic, the use of that window was still forbidden.

But the thing that was actually forbidden was "the use of blue truths involving the window." Beato cleverly got around it by creating a mystery to reverse the burden of proof, so that it became Erika's responsibility to create blue truths instead of hers.

Toku · 2012-01-10, 21:49

I could try and argue against this by saying that all people can only use their own names, but there's the possibility that "people" there doesn't refer to bodies but rather to personalities. At a glance, I don't think there's a red that denies that... And while I had thought that Beato actually denied the possibility of anyone being in the room after all is said and done, she only denied the possibility that Kanon is inside...

Not only that, but since it's a fact that Kanon went in, let Battler out, and set the chain lock behind him, he could not physically leave the room (the red that Beato used prevented anyone else from entering or leaving the room)... So it simply has to be referring to personalities, as far as I can tell.

And it wasn't said in red that Kanon is actually in the cousins' room in the guesthouse, only that "everyone else" is. How tricky.

...I had been hoping for a more satisfying answer, but this is acceptable.

One last thing though. The hint "without love, it cannot be seen" was supposed to refer to this solution, but how does that work? I don't see anything here that refers to love...

AuraTwilight · 2012-01-10, 21:53

Quote:

I could try and argue against this by saying that all people can only use their own names, but there's the possibility that "people" there doesn't refer to bodies but rather to personalities. At a glance, I don't think there's a red that denies that... And while I had thought that Beato actually denied the possibility of anyone being in the room after all is said and done, she only denied the possibility that Kanon is inside...

there's no problem with that because, being the same person, 'Sayo' (or whatever you want to call her) owns the names of Shannon AND Kanon.

Quote:

Not only that, but since it's a fact that Kanon went in, let Battler out, and set the chain lock behind him, he could not physically leave the room (the red that Beato used prevented anyone else from entering or leaving the room)... So it simply has to be referring to personalities, as far as I can tell.

It's also possible Kanon ceased existing in the room by dying, of course.

Quote:

One last thing though. The hint "without love, it cannot be seen" was supposed to refer to this solution, but how does that work? I don't see anything here that refers to love...

It requires understanding the true nature of Beatrice's heart. Namely, that she, Shannon, and Kanon are the same individual.

Captain Bluebeard · 2012-01-11, 07:10

Even more than that, it requires love to see magic. Without love, it's nothing more than a trick, it's just one person acting the parts of two, and that wouldn't work here, would it?

2011-12-25, 22:30	Link #5182
AuraTwilight The True Culprit Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: The Golden Land	It's possible. __________________ When the Silent Spirits Cry: An Umineko/Silent Hill crossover fanfiction http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=4565173&postcount=531

2011-12-26, 03:25	Link #5184
AuraTwilight The True Culprit Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: The Golden Land	Possible, but since the wording is that he would prove he understood "Beato's game", I would say that he demonstrated this through performing and understanding Beatrice's magic, reviving her through deception and desperation. __________________ When the Silent Spirits Cry: An Umineko/Silent Hill crossover fanfiction http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=4565173&postcount=531

2011-12-26, 03:41	Link #5186
AuraTwilight The True Culprit Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: The Golden Land	The context given was "Beatrice's Game" as in the gameboards. Anything like the "Epitaph murder game" isn't supported enough to be viable. __________________ When the Silent Spirits Cry: An Umineko/Silent Hill crossover fanfiction http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=4565173&postcount=531

2011-12-26, 04:00	Link #5188
AuraTwilight The True Culprit Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: The Golden Land	Well, they're all "Beatrice's game" because she created the gameboard and the rules and the setting and the story. It's like how Dungeons and Dragons is "Gary Gygax's game" even though he doesn't personally run every game session played across the world. __________________ When the Silent Spirits Cry: An Umineko/Silent Hill crossover fanfiction http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=4565173&postcount=531

2011-12-26, 04:23	Link #5190
AuraTwilight The True Culprit Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: The Golden Land	IS it the focal point? We can't honestly say that for sure. Anyway, the point isn't about the CONTENT so much about the construction and execution. Battler isn't demonstrating he knows the truth, here (how could he, when he's running a game with Erika in it?) he's running a game from Beatrice's point of view to demonstrate that he understands HER and how her game works. That's more important. __________________ When the Silent Spirits Cry: An Umineko/Silent Hill crossover fanfiction http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=4565173&postcount=531

2011-12-26, 03:02	Link #5183
unsuspectingvisitor Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2010	Battler said he was going to prove that he understood everything. Maybe he did that by telling us what the culprit is capable of without revealing his identity.

2011-12-26, 03:38	Link #5185
unsuspectingvisitor Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2010	You're right. Maybe he was only talking about "Beatrice's game" or should i say the "Epitaph murder game".

2011-12-26, 04:37	Link #5191
unsuspectingvisitor Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2010	Well you're right about that. I don't have any rebuttal for that so i'll stop now. I am finally done with EP6 and now on to the next EP.

2012-01-10, 19:08	Link #5192
Toku Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2011	Would anyone be willing to share theories on the logic error? I'm stuck, I just don't see how it's even possible...

2012-01-10, 19:14	Link #5193
AuraTwilight The True Culprit Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: The Golden Land	What do you mean? There's a lot of parts to the Logic Error subject, what specifically is giving you trouble? Like, how Beatrice solved it? __________________ When the Silent Spirits Cry: An Umineko/Silent Hill crossover fanfiction http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=4565173&postcount=531

2012-01-10, 19:20	Link #5194
Toku Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2011	Yeah. I understand the theory with the window, but Kanon wasn't even in that room. And despite that, Beatrice's logic not only allows Kanon to leave the room in the guesthouse, but to also free Battler and then escape himself, leaving no one in the room. The door must be used in some way, in order to escape. There should be no method of getting around that... And yet, the chain lock absolutely must be set, and it must be set from the inside. And there's no one in the room? Are they busting holes in the walls, or what? Technically, I think that would bypass the duct tape seals, but...

2012-01-10, 20:22	Link #5195
AuraTwilight The True Culprit Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: The Golden Land	The trick is that Kanon WAS in the room with the window...by virtue of being Shannon. As 'Kanon', she runs and saves Battler, sets the chain, and hides. Then she becomes 'Shannon' so that 'Kanon does not exist in this room'. __________________ When the Silent Spirits Cry: An Umineko/Silent Hill crossover fanfiction http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=4565173&postcount=531

2012-01-10, 21:49	Link #5198
Toku Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2011	I could try and argue against this by saying that all people can only use their own names, but there's the possibility that "people" there doesn't refer to bodies but rather to personalities. At a glance, I don't think there's a red that denies that... And while I had thought that Beato actually denied the possibility of anyone being in the room after all is said and done, she only denied the possibility that Kanon is inside... Not only that, but since it's a fact that Kanon went in, let Battler out, and set the chain lock behind him, he could not physically leave the room (the red that Beato used prevented anyone else from entering or leaving the room)... So it simply has to be referring to personalities, as far as I can tell. And it wasn't said in red that Kanon is actually in the cousins' room in the guesthouse, only that "everyone else" is. How tricky. ...I had been hoping for a more satisfying answer, but this is acceptable. One last thing though. The hint "without love, it cannot be seen" was supposed to refer to this solution, but how does that work? I don't see anything here that refers to love...

2012-01-11, 07:10	Link #5200
Captain Bluebeard Detective, Witch, Pirate. Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Ruins of the Golden Land	Even more than that, it requires love to see magic. Without love, it's nothing more than a trick, it's just one person acting the parts of two, and that wouldn't work here, would it?