2010-03-10, 20:20 | Link #1921 | ||
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2010-03-10, 20:58 | Link #1922 | ||
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To me, that implies that Archer no longer does, since he's genuinely shocked that Shirou still does. Quote:
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2010-03-10, 21:32 | Link #1923 | |||
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2010-03-10, 21:53 | Link #1925 |
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The thing is "a chance to become Archer" /= "has the same backstory as Archer", since UBW Shirou is also said to have such a chance, IIRC (and, by the "final Tiger Dojo", do you mean the thing with Ilya and Taiga in the hot spring?).
If Archer had the same backstory as Fate Shirou, then he would essentially be Archer, in some timeline. IMO, Archer probably came from a timeline where Rin summoned a different servant (because it's not a stable time loop, since there's more than one possibility). |
2010-03-10, 22:03 | Link #1926 | ||
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So the only chance for that is if Rin was there but never became a master, and saved his life with the pendant at some other point in time. However, why would she not join the battle yet Shirou would? |
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2010-03-10, 22:20 | Link #1927 | ||
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The problem is that Archer's actions affect Shirou, and thus change the timeline. Suppose that Archer were summoned by Rin into his own timeline. Then, his actions would change his own past (and, as I said, it's not a stable time loop, because there are multiple histories), which is a contradiction. Quote:
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2010-03-10, 22:41 | Link #1928 | ||
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Honestly, we could make up any scenario to fit, but doing so while following the confines of the story that's already been presented is the only way to actually make sense of it. |
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2010-03-10, 23:05 | Link #1929 | ||||
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So, that argument cannot be true, because Archer would know the situation, and thus would act to alter the timeline. Quote:
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2010-03-10, 23:16 | Link #1930 | ||||
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2010-03-11, 10:18 | Link #1931 | |||||
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He's just been told that she's left the pendant by Shirou's side, and he then tells her that he went and picked it up for her, and gives her his pendant. If he only knew that he had some relation to Rin, then how would he know that it was the same pendant that she had just left in the school with Shirou? Quote:
Plus, the loop has to somehow be bootstrapped first. Suppose Archer never existed. Then Rin, with the pendant, would summon someone else (since there's no Archer to summon). But, that Shirou would become Archer, so Rin would then summon Shirou instead. If you only had one single universal continuity (with no parallel universes), then the 'original' timeline (with Rin summoning someone else) would be erased, and then you would get a stable time loop where Rin summoned Archer and Shirou ended up becoming him. But, the Nasuverse is a multiverse, so when someone time travels, that doesn't happen. Instead, a new universe is formed, in which Rin summons Archer from the original universe. Actually, it's slightly more complicated than this, because it's actually possible that Archer did indeed come from a timeline where Rin summoned Shirou. But, it would be a slightly different Archer, since his experiences in his life would be different (and, Archer only has memories from one life, even the Counter Guardian Emiya may be a combination of many different Shirous). That Archer, in turn, would come from a timeline with another different Archer. Eventually, if you go far enough back, you would get to an Archer who came from a timeline where Rin summoned someone else. Quote:
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Last edited by Cherry_Lover; 2010-03-11 at 12:24. |
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2010-03-11, 15:39 | Link #1934 | ||||
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2010-03-11, 15:52 | Link #1935 | |
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2010-03-11, 16:05 | Link #1937 | ||||
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Also, it's canon, according to the Side Material book (apparently), that he knew from early on. Quote:
Not really, because he could easily have been watching a fight between Lancer and a different Archer that Rin summoned. |
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2010-03-11, 16:36 | Link #1938 | |
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Huzzah for paradoxes! |
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2010-03-11, 16:56 | Link #1939 |
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What? Why?
Like I said, there are ways around it. Just because Rin had the pendant, that doesn't mean she has to summon CG Emiya. And, like I said, otherwise, it's paradoxical, since it can't be a stable time loop (since Fate Shirou is not Archer, at least not certainly). |
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fate/stay night, visual novel |
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