Higurashi Episode 19 Discussion / Poll

[Ishun]

The triplet theory has already been proved false though. XD

[Supergrunch]

Originally Posted by i0td

we see that perhaps only an outsider like Keiichi can be fooled into believing the curse.

Rena appears to believe in it, although it's possible that she's lying. Shion also genuinely seemed to hear the "footsteps", even though she's very sceptical about the curse... but then I suppose that she's a bit of an outsider, as is Rena.

[BakaOnna]

Originally Posted by Matrim

Spoiler:

Won't that mean that the policemen in this anime must be complete morons? I mean, throwing a dead body through a window would obviously be a plot that would be revealed really quickly, at the very worse at the autopsy and probably earlier if the policemen have more experience and Oishi does have a lot of experience. More importantly - what's the point? K1 wouldn't suspect that Shion would try to kill him anyway. Also, it's nigh on impossible for Shion to recover Mion's body with the police in charge of the situation in the torture chamber.
I think Occam's Razor clearly points at Shion actually commiting a suicide, no need for such complicated scenarios without a clear objective.
Furthermore, Shion (or Mion) stabbed K1 outside of his home, not in a hospital. Unless you mean the final scene of episode 8 but it clearly took place on the next day so the time factor is really not relevant.

Oh right. She did stab him outside his house. I totally forgot about that. But still, I highly doubt his house is located right near her apartment. Oh, don't forget the shot of Shion's/Mion's foot outside. Her whole body was covered except for her foot, which was clean. Hmm, I wonder if this means something...

[Matrim]

What makes you think the suicide took place roughly at the same time as the stabbing? The dead body is shown right after the stabbing but that doesn't mean the latter scene couldn't have taken place a few hours later, right? Wouldn't Ooishi mention something like "About the time you were stabbed Shion commited a suicide"?
Rika is believed to be the reincarnation of Oyashiro-sama. If she is also the heir of Oryou's position as the enforcer of Oyashiro-sama's wishes, that would make Oyashiro-sama a very weird deity who instead of leaving the dirty work to his followers would do it himself with his avatar. Anyway, there are way too many conjectures in this theory, we can't even be sure that Onibaba had an active role in any of the curse murders, let alone is the one who is responsible for all of them. In mystery films and books the characters guesses are wrong more often than not, that's why my intuition tells me that Shion is wrong in thinking everything in this mystery revolves around the Sonozakis.

[Keriaku]

Originally Posted by aliensporebomb

Ishun - you and I think alike. Here's my theory:

Spoiler:

The whole thing about Mion being the heir is a SHAM.
You heard me - even if there's a tattoo it means nothing.

I suspect she was never really an heir, only the appearance of it.
She's the public face of the "heir" so as to be a target in case someone
isn't happy with the family the true heir will be protected.

Oni-Baba and Kimiyoshi might have called a lot of shots but the idea is:
The true heir is the one with the weird power and potential demon
affliction and I suspect this same person is the person who committed
suicide in episode five rather than be killed by Shion.

And WHY did she opt to commit suicide rather than be killed?

Spoiler:

Because, I suspect, SHE (or whatever demon is inside her) is the
one behind Satoshi's dissappearance. And giving Shion the
satisfaction of killing her wouldn't be in the best interest of
demon child so she'll kill herself and leave Shion wondering
if she was really responsible and not give her any information.
Just like Oni-baba. Or, is she doing it out of honor? We won't
know until EP20.

As I said the true heir is not publically known.
This means the heir can do a lot of dirty deeds and have plausible deniability.

Mion said she didn't know what happened to Satoshi because she
really didn't know what happened to Satoshi.

Shion won't believe it but I think Mion was kept in the dark all along.

Oni-baba and Kimiyoshi might even have to kowtow to the demon-child.

Spoiler:

I agree that Rika could be the actual heir as well. Another thing that could support this theory, is that in one of the TIPS, it said the Oryou likes Rika. This could be because (like all the older citizens of Hinamizawa) she thinks Rika is Oyashiro-sama's reincarnate, but I find that unlikely. If Rika was the real heir, this would make sense. (TIP: http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...&postcount=80)

Completely unrelated from what I said above, I'm rewatching Watanagashi Arc, and in light of Episode 19, Rika's little metaphor with cats and dogs in episode 7 is really confusing me. Anyone have any specualtion on it? I think Misunderstanding dog = Shion, Cat = Keiichi, Elder/Younger Cats = ?

[Wanderer]

Two points on the "Shion is somehow in two places at once" issue:

1) Is there any reason we should assume that one of the twins dies before the police rescue K1 and "Shion"? What if they are both alive at that point?

2) I never got the impression that the stabbing event at K1's house and Shion's suicide/murder happened at the same time.


I also want to bring up that line that the twin says right before she tasers K1. The one where she says something like: "if you see me again, avoid me. Because that will be the demon possessing my corpse"

The fact that that very event appeared to happen to K1 pretty much rules it out as a red herring.

So 3 possibilities as to why she would say it:

1) She's bonkers and really thinks it's true for whatever reason. K1 too, he also goes crazy and sees what he expects to see because she put the idea in his head. - I think this is highly unlikely. It has too many coincidences, and K1 going crazy here is really out of nowhere.

2) She's making it up. She is lieing for some reason, or she means it as a metaphor to say "this is the last time you will see me with any sanity". - Possible. However, the motive for lieing remains unclear. Nonetheless, this is the best option for a "logical explanation".

3) She's right. - I think this is the most likely


Another thing- I would like to note that the symptoms of Shion's insanity here are very very similar to K1's symptoms in Onikakushi-hen. They both hear footsteps, they both feel some ominous presense, and they both become extremely paranoid and mistrusting. I suspect that there is a reason for this. Also,

Spoiler for From the Watanagashi-hen manga:

Apparently Tomitake also hears the banging sounds from inside the utensil shrine, meaning only he and Shion heard it. Tomitake throats himself in this arc, just like K1 does in Onikakushi-hen.

[Matrim]

1) Is there any reason we should assume that one of the twins dies before the police rescue K1 and "Shion"? What if they are both alive at that point?

There is a reason - the body of one of the twins was found in the well. I really don't see how they can both be alive, then one fo them taken out on a stretcher and then somehow a body ends up in the well (around which they were probably many policemen). Of course, Ooishi could by lying about the body being found in the well but it makes sense that Shion would kill Mion, if for nothing else than to get rid of a witness of her crimes.

[BakaOnna]

I've noticed that there seem to be a decrease in the number of viewers for this series. It's rather sad since I think the series is getting better and better, especially with this answer arc and the next.

[Keriaku]

Originally Posted by BakaOnna

I've noticed that there seem to be a decrease in the number of viewers for this series. It's rather sad since I think the series is getting better and better, especially with this answer arc and the next.

Where'd you find this info?

[FatPianoBoy]

I just noticed something about the footsteps.
It seems to me that no one hears the footsteps until Rena mentions them to the person. We never see Rena tell Satoshi about them, but I think it's safe to assume that he'd have been informed out of our perception.

Where I'm going with this: Rena went berserk on her school with a baseball bat. She even assaulted some of her classmates. Under normal circumstances, she'd be in juvenile detention - unless she was insane. She told the court about the footsteps and Oyashiro-sama standing over her, and this was interpreted as an insanity plea. The doctor assigned to her interpreted this as Rena being extremely homesick, and therefore prescribed moving back to Hinamizawa as her 'cure.' Naturally, Irie would be informed of all this, so in order to keep up the alibi amidst the gossipy small town, Rena would have to maintain her story to each and every person who would be in a position to know.

The bottom line: Oyashiro-sama is a combination of the Sonozaki's dirty deeds and Rena's own fabrications.

[Sinestra]

Ok so SHion has gone competly off her rocker i mean witht he whole going tazer happy on people. I have never wished for anyone to die in this series but i must admit when the grandmother gets it i was very happy. So theories are

We learn that Mion is not really the heir shes just a spokes person. I am thinking that Rika might really be the heir.

We find out that Shion has been switching places with her sister for a while. which means in previous chapters the person who we thought was MIon was really SHion using Keiichi as bait.

Even though Shion claims not to beleive in the curse she headfoot steps behind her. I think thats a sign for her time is almost up.

When Keiichi goes to the underground tourture chamber with Mion i think it was really SHion and the one he sees in the cell is really Mion since Shion has taken her palce.

The Distinciton did not work out the way Shion thought it would she failed to calculate her self into it therefore saving her self and 2 others but not Satoshi. Very sneeky indeed.

I think Shion kills Mion and its really Shion that stabs Keiichi out side of his house or hospital.

I think i mentioned this before but oh well. Shion kept saying that she has the same thing inside of her as Mion since they are twins. I think that Shion was already dead and it was the demon that stab Keiichi.

I dont know about the apprent suicide of Shion cause something is not right with the time frame. However, Ooyshi said he found one of the twins bodies in the well does anyone have any guesses on which one it is. I baseing everything off the fact that it Mion that was in the well not Shion

[keke]

I agree partly with FatPianoBoy's theory that the curse is mostly a fabrication of Rena's dillusions. Shion was really spooked by Rena's speech about Oyashiro-sama's curse, and paid close attention to what she was saying. Now perhaps the first time Shion heard the footsteps was from something falling or some coincidence. But that made Shion think back to what Rena was saying. This combined with all the pressure she's under with all the things she's been doing may cause her to hallucinate more and more about Rena's story.

She does outright say she doesn't believe in the curse, but subconsciously her mind may be making it real to her. Like how most people don't believe in things such as ghosts, but we still feel a chill down our spines sometimes when alone in the dark. The human mind is a strange thing in its workings.

Now all this may not really cause Shion to do the things she does, but I think it's a contributing factor. And may escalate to her suicide at the end. In one of the TIPS threads, it is said that shortly before her suicide, neighbours heard arguing in her room, but only 1 voice. It could be that she is arguing with a hallucination of perhaps Mion, Satoshi, or even onibaba. Can't wait to see the conclusion of this chapter!

[aliensporebomb]

I keep thinking the end of this story is going to VARY from the previous chapter:
it's going to make us ask more questions than ever before.

It's also very possible that even Rika isn't the true heir - it seems logical
given the towns love for her, the strangness she exhibits (dual personality
or possession) but I had a thought that really surprised me and could be
plausible - I am waiting until I see 20 before unleashing my suspicion but
it makes an odd kind of sense.

[dKiWi]

Originally Posted by BakaOnna

I've noticed that there seem to be a decrease in the number of viewers for this series. It's rather sad since I think the series is getting better and better, especially with this answer arc and the next.

If you're judging this from torrent downloads, do note that torrents are not necessarily accurate. There are tons of ppl watching their anime from youtube, and some directly download them. From WIND's latest subs, I believe people are getting Higurashi off Ebay.

Yes Higurashi has always been getting better. The first answer arc has been the best so far, even though much has been cut out I guess.

[theacefrehley]

Originally Posted by Nork22

Your image link is dead, but if it's what I think it is, then maybe we were all wrong all along. That or maybe Studio Deen is doing silly things with the animation again and are now making it even more confusing.

Spoiler:

Well,
First post in these forums hehe
Regarding this image

That kind of intrigued me

Someone who played the game could make it clear
Is it a mistake or not?

From the opening sequence we can clearly see one of the twins with a tattoo

Could it be Shion the true heir?

About the the episode, it seems quite clear now

Shion killed Mion and threw her in the well, after put Keiichi to sleep, stabbed Keiichi and suicided.

I Remember her flat on episode 8 was a mess. Maybe the "petta, petta" drove her crazy and after destroy the furniture she jumped...

The ending seems like an illusion, or hallucination. Come on, she came from under the bed...
Oishi didn't notice it?

[FatPianoBoy]

How'd I miss that picture the first time around?

Now I'm seriously WTF-ing here
From the intro, it appears that that mark covers her entire back. Unless Studio Deen just forgot to draw it, we're in for a lot of surprises or a lot more questions

[Chibi Nasu]

Unless I'm being blind or something, I'm pretty sure that's just her hair.

[FatPianoBoy]

Originally Posted by Chibi Nasu

Unless I'm being blind or something, I'm pretty sure that's just her hair.

I guess you're blind then
I'm pretty sure that's not her hair. Unfortunately, I'm not in a position to post a screencap of the intro.

[Chibi Nasu]

Originally Posted by FatPianoBoy

I guess you're blind then
I'm pretty sure that's not her hair. Unfortunately, I'm not in a position to post a screencap of the intro.

Or just stupid. I totally misinterpreted the text on the screenshot above ^^;; I guess that's what I get for not sleeping for the past few nights @.@

Uh.. yeah... disregard my former post

[aliensporebomb]

So does this mean:

Spoiler:

We need to line up Rika, Mion and Shion so we can look at their backs
sans shirts?

I wouldn't mind.