F/SN UBW TV - Episode 6 Spoiler Discussion / Poll

[HtwoN]

Originally Posted by BloodyKitty

Personally while I prefer True End, it's not like Good End doesn't work if ufo rewrites some parts to include better closure for the main characters of this route like the True End did, and add some better meaning to Saber's decision to stay. If they could ever pull it off then fine.

Rewriting an ending? Not gonna happen.

True Ending is true ending.

UBW is about Archer and Shirou, not about Saber to the slightest.

Btw, enjoy the UBW PSvita OP: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNPesnjM2Sg

It has a clear ending inside.

[magnuskn]

Originally Posted by orion

Because a harem ending is for people who cannot make a decision. Rin is very decisive. I can only conclude that the Good ending was for Saber fans.

Well, I'd say that Rin was extremely decisive in the good ending. She wanted to tap dat ass. Both of them.

[Guido]

Honestly, Shinji was cynical publicly alluding to Shiro he had a part setting up the Bounded Field at school, and I wouldn't take on the offer to team up with such kind of people; he's a pompous coward.
The problem is that if Sakura gets involved for him to use as leverage, then Shiro's left with little choices but to consider his offer.

The Bounded Field remains a long-term problem, but the plot progressed unexpectedly in this episode now that Caster is moving.

Spoiler:

My opinion is her strategy is two fold: 1) Going after the weakest Master in the war, and 2) in doing so would rouse the other Masters to start acting. Except for the Einzbern Master, since Illya is resented with Kiritsugu and plans to vent her wrath on Shiro out of her own free will regardless of other Masters' actions.

Nevertheless, Caster prioritizes Shiro as an easy to catch fuel of mana supply with an added bonus of Command Spells to spare on her Master; her real priority is Berseker.

Here, I ask if all that exceedingly amounts of mana that Caster has built-up are only strictly for her sustenance? or also form part of her strategy to deal against Berseker?

[orion]

Originally Posted by magnuskn

Well, I'd say that Rin was extremely decisive in the good ending. She wanted to tap dat ass. Both of them.

Like I said, it's an ending to please the people who wanted Saber to live, not really related to Rin's story.

[SJCrew]

Because a harem ending is for people who cannot make a decision. Rin is very decisive. I can only conclude that the Good ending was for Saber fans.

Your last point is irrelevant to the first two, and therefore illogical. Rin can 'decisively' want both Shirou and Saber because they're good friends and she finds them both sexually appealing.

Also, Rin is not always stern and serious. She is just as much a girl as she is a magus. She can choose to allow Saber to stay purely for fun, and it would be perfectly in character.

Good end and True end are both fine, as long they are written believably up to that point.

[Rev Okkin]

Originally Posted by Guido

Honestly, Shinji was cynical publicly alluding to Shiro he had a part setting up the Bounded Field at school, and I wouldn't take on the offer to team up with such kind of people; he's a pompous coward.
The problem is that if Sakura gets involved for him to use as leverage, then Shiro's left with little choices but to consider his offer.

The Bounded Field remains a long-term problem, but the plot progressed unexpectedly in this episode now that Caster is moving.

My opinion is her strategy is two fold: 1) Going after the weakest Master in the war, and 2) in doing so would rouse the other Masters to start acting. Except for the Einzbern Master, since Illya is resented with Kiritsugu and plans to vent her wrath on Shiro out of her own free will regardless of other Masters' actions.

Nevertheless, Caster prioritizes Shiro as an easy to catch fuel of mana supply with an added bonus of Command Spells to spare on her Master; her real priority is Berseker.

Here, I ask if all that exceedingly amounts of mana that Caster has built-up are only strictly for her sustenance? or also form part of her strategy to deal against Berseker?

You can see Shirou all frowning on Shinji especially both sort of know that Sakura goes to the Emiya household to stay away from Matou abuse and that Shirou's kindness would not let him to make Sakura go out of the Emiya household to put priorities in the HGW and his life. That's how Shinji is confident that revealing to Shirou that he is a Master would give him leaverage as Shinji is a Matou and has some power over Sakura. Though I don't think Shirou is dumb enough not to tell Rin or Saber about Shinji especially since Shirou didn't agree to cooperate with him.

Caster is arguably one of the most prepared Servant in this HGW (or maybe even the previous HGW). She has captured a well placed position to have enemies go up so they can easily be shot down. She put up an anti-Servant barrier around the place so there is only one way up, the stairs where Servant Assassin waits with a higher ground. Basically Assassin doesn't need to openly fight, he just needs to keep everyone else from getting into the Temple (best guard). She is also getting mana on a large scale which could be used for an alternate mana source (so that she doesn't get mana from her Master but rather everyone else which lets her Master do what they want). She could be using it to bargain with Assassin, giving him a good mana source in exchange of being a guard.
Remember when Archer alluded that Caster might have seen the fight with Berserker, the fight that Saber managed to kill Berserker once? Wise move for her to try and take the Command Seals for Saber in order to control her into her team and it's a blessing that Shirou is a petty mage (which has been shown through many characters criticizing different aspects of Shirou being a mage). Since Saber has shown to be able to kill Berserker, then the best move is to monopolize her to fight Berserker as he is one of the more difficult ones to fight.

People say that FSN is badly written but that's because the expect Zero when the authors and the studio made clear that they are two different stories.

This arguing about True and Good ends makes me want to ask if ufotable would make a Sparks Liner High special but showing what happens after the fight against Alter. It's pointless-ish narrative wise but it is real interesting to see how would all parties react at the very end of the HGW.

[Guido]

Originally Posted by Rev Okkin

You can see Shirou all frowning on Shinji especially both sort of know that Sakura goes to the Emiya household to stay away from Matou abuse and that Shirou's kindness would not let him to make Sakura go out of the Emiya household to put priorities in the HGW and his life. That's how Shinji is confident that revealing to Shirou that he is a Master would give him leaverage as Shinji is a Matou and has some power over Sakura. Though I don't think Shirou is dumb enough not to tell Rin or Saber about Shinji especially since Shirou didn't agree to cooperate with him.

Caster is arguably one of the most prepared Servant in this HGW (or maybe even the previous HGW). She has captured a well placed position to have enemies go up so they can easily be shot down. She put up an anti-Servant barrier around the place so there is only one way up, the stairs where Servant Assassin waits with a higher ground. Basically Assassin doesn't need to openly fight, he just needs to keep everyone else from getting into the Temple (best guard). She is also getting mana on a large scale which could be used for an alternate mana source (so that she doesn't get mana from her Master but rather everyone else which lets her Master do what they want). She could be using it to bargain with Assassin, giving him a good mana source in exchange of being a guard.
Remember when Archer alluded that Caster might have seen the fight with Berserker, the fight that Saber managed to kill Berserker once? Wise move for her to try and take the Command Seals for Saber in order to control her into her team and it's a blessing that Shirou is a petty mage (which has been shown through many characters criticizing different aspects of Shirou being a mage). Since Saber has shown to be able to kill Berserker, then the best move is to monopolize her to fight Berserker as he is one of the more difficult ones to fight.

People say that FSN is badly written but that's because the expect Zero when the authors and the studio made clear that they are two different stories.

This arguing about True and Good ends makes me want to ask if ufotable would make a Sparks Liner High special but showing what happens after the fight against Alter. It's pointless-ish narrative wise but it is real interesting to see how would all parties react at the very end of the HGW.

I never had any chances to play the visual novel Fate/stay night and read the manga and novels, though I frequently visit the Type-Moon wikia homepages reading the spoilers all around the Fateverse. Hence, I cannot comment as much on the games' endings.

Another direction to put Caster's role is being the best if not the ultimate puppet master, though that doesn't mean in anyway she's perfect per se. She should have hurried up, even if it was rashly, to strip off the Command Spells from Shiro in order to gain control of Saber quickly.
Furthermore, it would be naive of me to say that Archer entering her territory was unexpected, after all that's the reason why she placed Assassin at the front gate. Archer simply saw an opening and took advantage of Saber dealing with Assassin for the time being in order to make his way inside. Nonetheless, he doesn't feel happy at saving her Master's enemy, and Shiro as well welcomes him as cold as ice. Ultimately, there's nothing he can do due 1) Rin using a Command Spell in the first episode to have him follow her every command, and 2) Rin and Shiro agreeing to the temporary truce, until they defeat the other Master (Shinji) at school.

Finally, it's true that Rin doesn't waste the occasion when a perfect opportunity presents to her. I recalled the previous episode that she attempted at the best scenario put Shiro down into a coma and remove his Command Spells, though I could say Shiro taking for granted the magnitude of the danger and going unnecesarily to school when Rin warned him, otherwise, was the trigger for her to take immediate action against him.
Nevertheless, she's gotten her sense of aesthetics in regards at being a mage, hence, she won't backstab Shiro through underhanded tactics, so as long as he doesn't betray her. The thing is that danger coming to Shiro from Rin using foul play won't ever happen.

[BloodyKitty]

Originally Posted by HtwoN

Rewriting an ending? Not gonna happen.

True Ending is true ending.

UBW is about Archer and Shirou, not about Saber to the slightest.

Btw, enjoy the UBW PSvita OP: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNPesnjM2Sg

It has a clear ending inside.

Thanks but I watch that OP 20x times already, just not as much as 50x times with HF PSVita OP :P. And it is the OP to UBW route of the visual novel, not the anime adaptation.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a Saber's fan, and I like the True End more than Good End. And I mostly believe that ufotable will go for the True End. That said, the reason some people think that ufotable might go for the Good End (with some big changes if that happens, more or less), is because of all the changes made to the anime thus far compared to the UBW route in VN, mainly all those new Saber pandering scenes, her bigger role in the battle with Berserker, etc. When there are modifications, there are also different possibilities open. While I want the True End and think it will be it, I don't think we could disregard the possibilities of other kinds of endings that the anime might have. In some way having those expectations helps lessen the disappointment in me if those possibilities become reality

[Levani]

I'm a Saber fan! I'm content with any ending as long as she goes out in style (Have no clue how UBW or HF ends)

[magnuskn]

Originally Posted by orion

Like I said, it's an ending to please the people who wanted Saber to live, not really related to Rin's story.

Sure, but that doesn't mean that it would lessen the story at all. It's just an iteration where there is a more definite happy ending for one additional character.

[HtwoN]

Originally Posted by BloodyKitty

Thanks but I watch that OP 20x times already, just not as much as 50x times with HF PSVita OP :P. And it is the OP to UBW route of the visual novel, not the anime adaptation.
[/S]

My point is even an OP for the VN acknowledges which ending is true.

Originally Posted by magnuskn

Sure, but that doesn't mean that it would lessen the story at all. It's just an iteration where there is a more definite happy ending for one additional character.

Yes it does.

Good End offers no conclusion for Archer and Shirou, 2 most important characters in UBW. Archer's reminiscence is one of the most important and heart-breaking parts in UBW, and it's in True End. Shirou affirms his ideal and his path in True End instead of playing around with his harem. And only in True End we can see Rin's devotion to "fix" Shirou.

Also, GE goes against Saber's character. She makes it clear throughout the route that she would not stay in modern era after the war is over.

Please read this: http://lparchive.org/Fatestay-night/Update%20224/
and this: http://lparchive.org/Fatestay-night/Update%20231/

A "definite happy ending" for her is taking a final rest without regretting anything.

Furthermore, Good End makes no sense because Rin has no way to keep Saber after the Grail is destroyed. She is not Sakura with infinitive mana. Saber has to eat children like Gil does to survive.

Again, Good End is just a fan-service ending. The fact that you prefer it doesn't make it true and lessen its nature.

[Verrueckter]

Originally Posted by HtwoN

Furthermore, Good End makes no sense because Rin has no way to keep Saber after the Grail is destroyed. She is not Sakura with infinitive mana. Saber has to eat children like Gil does to survive.

Well...she wouldn't be eating children, she would be eating Shirou. *wink*wink* *nudge*nudge*

[chaos_alfa]

Originally Posted by HtwoN

My point is even an OP for the VN acknowledges which ending is true.



Yes it does.

Good End offers no conclusion for Archer and Shirou, 2 most important characters in UBW. Archer's reminiscence is one of the most important and heart-breaking parts in UBW, and it's in True End. Shirou affirms his ideal and his path in True End instead of playing around with his harem. And only in True End we can see Rin's devotion to "fix" Shirou.

Also, GE goes against Saber's character. She makes it clear throughout the route that she would not stay in modern era after the war is over.

Please read this: http://lparchive.org/Fatestay-night/Update%20224/
and this: http://lparchive.org/Fatestay-night/Update%20231/

A "definite happy ending" for her is taking a final rest without regretting anything.

Furthermore, Good End makes no sense because Rin has no way to keep Saber after the Grail is destroyed. She is not Sakura with infinitive mana. Saber has to eat children like Gil does to survive.

Again, Good End is just a fan-service ending. The fact that you prefer it doesn't make it true and lessen its nature.

I'm still not sure if it is necessary for Gilgamesh to feed on the orphans to stay in the world. He already has a "human body", meaning he wouldn't need to have extra mana to stay in the world. From my understanding feeding on the orphans was just to make him able to use his Noble Phantasms, but if this is the case there would have been no need for him to feed on the orphans in the years between the 4th and 5th Holy Grail Wars.

[HtwoN]

Originally Posted by chaos_alfa

I'm still not sure if it is necessary for Gilgamesh to feed on the orphans to stay in the world. He already has a "human body", meaning he wouldn't need to have extra mana to stay in the world. From my understanding feeding on the orphans was just to make him able to use his Noble Phantasms, but if this is the case there would have been no need for him to feed on the orphans in the years between the 4th and 5th Holy Grail Wars.

His physical body is not "human body". He has to feed on mana from other people to sustain himself. Even Kirei couldn't provide him with enough mana.

He is more "human" than a Servant, but he is still not a human.

[chaos_alfa]

Originally Posted by HtwoN

His physical body is not "human body". He has to feed on mana from other people to sustain himself. Even Kirei couldn't provide him with enough mana.

He is more "human" than a Servant, but he is still not a human.

In that case what are the perks of his new "human" body compared to having the body of a regular servant?

[GreyZone]

Originally Posted by chaos_alfa

In that case what are the perks of his new "human" body compared to having the body of a regular servant?

He does not need a Master as an "anchor" anymore, like Servants usually do.

[chaos_alfa]

Originally Posted by GreyZone

He does not need a Master as an "anchor" anymore, like Servants usually do.

That makes sense.

[SJCrew]

Originally Posted by HtwoN

My point is even an OP for the VN acknowledges which ending is true.



Yes it does.

Good End offers no conclusion for Archer and Shirou, 2 most important characters in UBW. Archer's reminiscence is one of the most important and heart-breaking parts in UBW, and it's in True End. Shirou affirms his ideal and his path in True End instead of playing around with his harem. And only in True End we can see Rin's devotion to "fix" Shirou.

Also, GE goes against Saber's character. She makes it clear throughout the route that she would not stay in modern era after the war is over.

Please read this: http://lparchive.org/Fatestay-night/Update%20224/
and this: http://lparchive.org/Fatestay-night/Update%20231/

A "definite happy ending" for her is taking a final rest without regretting anything.

Furthermore, Good End makes no sense because Rin has no way to keep Saber after the Grail is destroyed. She is not Sakura with infinitive mana. Saber has to eat children like Gil does to survive.

Again, Good End is just a fan-service ending. The fact that you prefer it doesn't make it true and lessen its nature.

The second link directly contradicts your point about Saber being resolute to leave. She wanted to see off Shirou and Rin, but decided against it out of courtesy.

'She still has some magical energy left. She can stay in this world if she pushes her self. If she can ------- she would like to see what awaits them in the end.'

"------ But that is not my role. Shirou has Rin."

If anything, it reads as though she is conflicted about having a proper sendoff because she doesn't want to get in the way of their chemistry.

lol @ eating children to survive. Rin makes it clear in Good end that Saber has to feed off of both hers and Shirou's energy in order to maintain form. Nowhere is it confirmed that taking lives is the only way for a Servant to maintain form. It only makes sense to Gilgamesh's character because he is a hedonist and sadist. Do some more research.

[HtwoN]

Originally Posted by SJCrew

The second link directly contradicts your point about Saber being resolute to leave. She wanted to see off Shirou and Rin, but decided against it out of courtesy.

'She still has some magical energy left. She can stay in this world if she pushes her self. If she can ------- she would like to see what awaits them in the end.'

"------ But that is not my role. Shirou has Rin."

If anything, it reads as though she is conflicted about having a proper sendoff because she doesn't want to get in the way of their chemistry.

And that what we call Saber's character.

She knows that Shirou will be fine as long as he has Rin with him. So she has no reason to worry anymore. She doesn't want to be a burden for anybody. So she decides to rest. It's better for her and for them. She knows that she doesn't belong here.

"Then she has to move forward as well.
The end where she took her hands off of the sword.
She will run past that hill under her own will."

I don't know how this contradict my point? Even in Fate route, where she has a big reason to stay, she still leaves.

And UBW is not even about Saber. Why don't you try to counter my points about Archer instead?

Btw, Gil "eating" children means he taking their life force (a.k.a magical energy). I don't know what you are thinking about. And it's really naive to think that Rin and Shirou could supply enough mana to maintain a Servant when the grail is destroyed already. Furthermore, Saber doesn't even has a physical form like Gil.

[magnuskn]

Originally Posted by HtwoN

Yes it does.

Good End offers no conclusion for Archer and Shirou, 2 most important characters in UBW. Archer's reminiscence is one of the most important and heart-breaking parts in UBW, and it's in True End. Shirou affirms his ideal and his path in True End instead of playing around with his harem. And only in True End we can see Rin's devotion to "fix" Shirou.

Also, GE goes against Saber's character. She makes it clear throughout the route that she would not stay in modern era after the war is over.

It is made pretty clear by her reactions during conversations in the UBW route that hearing Archer talk about the path he took is making her reconsider her own stance.

The good ending pretty much also tells us all the parts you mentioned about Archer, Shirou and Rin, as well as Saber. As I said, I don't need a big speech at the end to point out again what already had been made clear throughout the entire route itself.

Originally Posted by HtwoN

Please read this: http://lparchive.org/Fatestay-night/Update%20224/
and this: http://lparchive.org/Fatestay-night/Update%20231/

Sorry, but I'd like to keep discussion to things you say yourself, instead of having to pour through lots of text on other sites.

Originally Posted by HtwoN

A "definite happy ending" for her is taking a final rest without regretting anything.

Which she can do when Shirou and Rin are gone in a few decades, if she still decides to do so after spending time in the modern world. She has all to gain by staying and nothing to lose.

Originally Posted by HtwoN

Furthermore, Good End makes no sense because Rin has no way to keep Saber after the Grail is destroyed. She is not Sakura with infinitive mana. Saber has to eat children like Gil does to survive.

Err, did you pay attention at all to what was said in the good ending? Rin and Shirou should, by Rin's estimation, be able to maintain Saber together. What reason would you have to doubt Rin's own words?

Originally Posted by HtwoN

Again, Good End is just a fan-service ending. The fact that you prefer it doesn't make it true and lessen its nature.

In your opinion, which by the minute seems less well researched and more about your personal preference.