F/SN UBW TV - Episode 6 Spoiler Discussion / Poll

[SJCrew]

The contradictory part was this bit:

Also, GE goes against Saber's character. She makes it clear throughout the route that she would not stay in modern era after the war is over.

Saber expresses a lingering desire to stay in both routes. The result is arbitrary, and based entirely on the decisions you make in the VN. Of course in True End, you are closer to Rin, which alienates Saber. But if you split your loyalties to the both of them, the ending accompanies those choices. GE is just the result of the characters making different choices based on personality traits they already have.

And it's really naive to think that Rin and Shirou could supply enough mana to maintain a Servant when the grail is destroyed already.

All covered in writing. Canon states that the Servant disappears when they are killed in battle, their command spells are used, or their contract to the magus is fulfilled. In the case of both anomalies, Saber and Gilgamesh, none of these conditions are met. Gilgamesh's master dies, but his command spells are usurped by Kirei and he maintains form with the energy of various humans. All other Servants are killed or lose their command spells.

Saber, meets these very same conditions. Unlike Gil's, her energy source is consistent and replenished daily by two magi. How does this make any less sense than absorbing scores of weak children for energy? All of these explanations are canon, so it does not make sense to accept some and dismiss others. You need to provide something more substantial than opinions and disbelief.

[HtwoN]

" That's all I can manage to say.
We're going to go destroy the Holy Grail. At the same time, Servant Saber will be returning to her original place.

Even if I want her to stay here,
and even if Saber is attached to this house…
As long as she is a Servant, she cannot go against the law."

Yeah, good luck with all your headcanons... I wonder who is using opinions and disbelieves here... You are not bother to read my link carefully.

And this is Saber's resolve, since people are too lazy to read what I linked:

"His crimes are so deep that they cannot be atoned for.
But there was something he did not give up on.
The knight in red finally arrived at an answer at the very end.
Then... she has to move forward as well.
The end where she took her hands off of the sword.
She will run past that hill under her own will."

Things stated in GE simply contradicts everything the narrative said before.

Feel free to dream but GE hasn't been and will never be the true end of UBW. That's all I wanted to say. I'm out for the second time.

[magnuskn]

I'd amend that it will never be the "true" end for you. The good end is true enough for me.

[HtwoN]

Your headcanon is so strong then.

We only have one true end, and it is named True End. The VN agrees with me. And that's enough.

[blakraven66]

So how do you guys figure Assassin pulled out that long ass sword from his back? The arm only stretches so far.

[Rising Dragon]

He made reality his bitch, that's how.

[Gpower]

Stop feeding the good end troll. Please.

[Rev Okkin]

Originally Posted by blakraven66

So how do you guys figure Assassin pulled out that long ass sword from his back? The arm only stretches so far.

Considering his NP, physics can't touch him. So "impossible" movements aren't that impossible to him.

[bhl88]

Assassin: Screw the rules. I spent years killing a swallow.

[Rev Okkin]

Assassin is the definition of determination to the smallest of things...
Even though the reason is boredom...

Next week, we should all fangasm on Caster's beams and AsSASSin's glory

[SJCrew]

Originally Posted by HtwoN

" That's all I can manage to say.
We're going to go destroy the Holy Grail. At the same time, Servant Saber will be returning to her original place.

Even if I want her to stay here,
and even if Saber is attached to this house…
As long as she is a Servant, she cannot go against the law."

Yeah, good luck with all your headcanons... I wonder who is using opinions and disbelieves here... You are not bother to read my link carefully.

And this is Saber's resolve, since people are too lazy to read what I linked:

"His crimes are so deep that they cannot be atoned for.
But there was something he did not give up on.
The knight in red finally arrived at an answer at the very end.
Then... she has to move forward as well.
The end where she took her hands off of the sword.
She will run past that hill under her own will."

Things stated in GE simply contradicts everything the narrative said before.

Feel free to dream but GE hasn't been and will never be the true end of UBW. That's all I wanted to say. I'm out for the second time.

Stated by Shirou, who knows absolutely nothing about the war other than what Rin and Kirei tell him.

And yet, they are ones who both decided to keep a Servent as a familiar against the 'rules'. Hmm.

Rider also survives the events of Heaven's Feel's True end as Sakura's familiar. That's three exceptions. Not one or two, three.

It's not a rule. Your source is innaccurate, and it's corrected immediately in the ensuing dialogue of that scene, which you conveniently did not quote.

"...? I didn't do anything to Saber. Our contract still exists, so she's still my familiar. Saber's the strongest familiar, there's no way I'd let her go, right?"

Shirou proceeds to repeat what you quoted from the scene, only for Rin to correct him once again, stating that she is no longer a Heroic Spirit without the grail, but simply a familiar whose magical contract is in effect.

And yes, Rin's magical energy will be replenished with plenty of tender lovin', the same way he does for Saber in Fate and Sakura in Heaven's Feel.

All canon. Your move.

[GreyZone]

The epilogue of the True End is 10x longer or more than the Good End (GE is literally just a few lines). I had the Good End as the ending of my first playthrough and I was really disappointed about how short it is. To make the Good End even remotely feasible, you'd need to include elements from the True End into it and even then I am not sure if it works.

[magnuskn]

Originally Posted by HtwoN

Your headcanon is so strong then.

We only have one true end, and it is named True End. The VN agrees with me. And that's enough.

But it's not the only ending to that path, which is what seems to be in dispute. I've said before that I am not expecting it to be the one chosen for the series, just that I'd like it to be (or a mixture of both endings, where Saber stays around).

Originally Posted by Gpower

Stop feeding the good end troll. Please.

The word "troll" does not apply to anyone who does not have your exact opinion. I've laid out my argument logically so far.

Originally Posted by GreyZone

The epilogue of the True End is 10x longer or more than the Good End (GE is literally just a few lines). I had the Good End as the ending of my first playthrough and I was really disappointed about how short it is. To make the Good End even remotely feasible, you'd need to include elements from the True End into it and even then I am not sure if it works.

GE epilogue is about 20 minutes long on Youtube, so I think "just a few lines" is a bit inaccurate on your part. But, as I've said, I wouldn't mind a mixture between good and true end.

[HtwoN]

Originally Posted by SJCrew

Stated by Shirou, who knows absolutely nothing about the war other than what Rin and Kirei tell him.

And yet, they are ones who both decided to keep a Servent as a familiar against the 'rules'. Hmm.

Rider also survives the events of Heaven's Feel's True end as Sakura's familiar. That's three exceptions. Not one or two, three.

It's not a rule. Your source is innaccurate, and it's corrected immediately in the ensuing dialogue of that scene, which you conveniently did not quote.

"...? I didn't do anything to Saber. Our contract still exists, so she's still my familiar. Saber's the strongest familiar, there's no way I'd let her go, right?"

Shirou proceeds to repeat what you quoted from the scene, only for Rin to correct him once again, stating that she is no longer a Heroic Spirit without the grail, but simply a familiar whose magical contract is in effect.

And yes, Rin's magical energy will be replenished with plenty of tender lovin', the same way he does for Saber in Fate and Sakura in Heaven's Feel.

All canon. Your move.

Firstly, Gil was bathed in the "mud" and was given a physical body. Saber wasn't.

Secondly, Sakura is special:

"Sakura's body still has after-effects from Angra Manyu.
Even with the contract broken, she's still a Holy Grail.
She was connected to Angra Manyu, so she's still connected with the other side.
Vast amounts of magical energy are collecting in Sakura's body, and she has to periodically let it out.

It's because of that magical energy that she can keep Rider, even after the Great Holy Grail's destruction."

Tell me, is Rin a Holy Grail?

Thirdly, don't discredit a narrative just because your stupid reason: "Shirou knows nothing".

Fourthly, you still couldn't counter my point about Saber's resolve. Her staying in Good End contradicts her resolve.

All things in Good End are asspulls to create a fan-service ending. It's like Rin makes the rules her bitches.

If you want to make Good End your headcanon, go ahead. I don't care it is canon to you or not. But it looks like you are using "opinions and disbelief" to argue with me now.

Originally Posted by magnuskn

GE epilogue is about 20 minutes long on Youtube, so I think "just a few lines" is a bit inaccurate on your part. But, as I've said, I wouldn't mind a mixture between good and true end.

Sorry but a lot of people do mind. True end has to be True End.

And no chance that will happen. Ufotable is doing a faithful adaption. They are not DEEN. (Even DEEN respects the ending)

[quigonkenny]

Just repeatedly calling something "headcanon" doesn't make it so. SJCrew already posted the justification for Saber's continued Good End viability given in the actual game. VN endings may have different narratives, but they are all based off of the same shared universe with the same inherent laws. If Saber can become a sex-fueled familiar in one ending, she can in all of them, even if she doesn't, due to choices made. Like it or not, all VN endings are "canon". Since the choices are mutable, there is no set canon. "True" is less a description than a designation.

And let's not forget that Saber, too, is special. Unlike every other Servant, she was drawn from the real world, just before her death, rather than from the Throne of Heroes, after her death. She is still alive, after a fashion.

Anything from the game is available to ufotable, and Good End is in the game. That said, I fully expect them to adapt the True End. It's a better narrative choice, and that's all that really matters. Though I wouldn't be surprised if they add elements from other endings (or even routes) to fill out the overall story inclusive with the HF movie(s).

[HtwoN]

Originally Posted by quigonkenny

Anything from the game is available to ufotable, and Good End is in the game. That said, I fully expect them to adapt the True End. It's a better narrative choice, and that's all that really matters. Though I wouldn't be surprised if they add elements from other endings (or even routes) to fill out the overall story inclusive with the HF movie(s).

It's also more logical and fit with the resolves that all four main characters made earlier. And we don't need any "justification" ( I prefer to use "asspull" here, but well...) to justify it.

There is a reason that they didn't label Ending 1, Ending 2 instead of True, Good.

That said, True End and Saber scenes in CotD are the best combo. They don't have to rewrite anything, and yet at the same time, stay logical to the narrative.

[kyp275]

*walks into thread expecting comments about latest episode, slowly backs away after seeing nothing but arguments about which ending route is superior...*

[magnuskn]

Originally Posted by quigonkenny

Just repeatedly calling something "headcanon" doesn't make it so. SJCrew already posted the justification for Saber's continued Good End viability given in the actual game. VN endings may have different narratives, but they are all based off of the same shared universe with the same inherent laws. If Saber can become a sex-fueled familiar in one ending, she can in all of them, even if she doesn't, due to choices made. Like it or not, all VN endings are "canon". Since the choices are mutable, there is no set canon. "True" is less a description than a designation.

And let's not forget that Saber, too, is special. Unlike every other Servant, she was drawn from the real world, just before her death, rather than from the Throne of Heroes, after her death. She is still alive, after a fashion.

Anything from the game is available to ufotable, and Good End is in the game. That said, I fully expect them to adapt the True End. It's a better narrative choice, and that's all that really matters. Though I wouldn't be surprised if they add elements from other endings (or even routes) to fill out the overall story inclusive with the HF movie(s).

Aside from the thing about the "pure" True End being the better narrative choice (about which I politely disagree), I think I can otherwise completely agree with this.

[Nayrael]

Can you two please move this to the game or Speculation tread? This has nothing to do with ep6.

[magnuskn]

I'm pretty much done, anyway. It's not as if anyone will change his mind.