2011-04-06, 00:15 | Link #22541 | |
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: CA, USA
Age: 29
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Last edited by Revelation; 2011-04-06 at 00:26. |
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2011-04-07, 05:20 | Link #22545 | |||
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Join Date: Dec 2010
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If it's possible that the 1998 in EP4 and EP6 is a forgery and the one in EP8 was made up, can any information from them be trusted? Is there anything in the 1998 shown that couldn't be thought up by a person in 1986? For example, is Amakusa explicitly said to have trained people at Blackwater? Quote:
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I was going by the wikipedia article, which said she was killed by Mammon in the VN, but Ange finished her off in the anime. Ange may have been having delusions, but they seemed to be based on reality, like Kasumi and her men being shot and portrayed as being killed by the Stakes. The anime made it seem like "Eva" had shot them with one of Kinzo's rifles. |
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2011-04-07, 05:54 | Link #22546 |
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Join Date: Dec 2010
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About the debate on Kinzo's death: the circumstances would raise suspicion that he had died before 1986. It happens in Japan more than you'd think. This one city was going to give an award to a woman who had lived to be 100. When the family couldn't produce her, it was investigated and turned out they hadn't reported her death so they could get her checks. It's thought this practice contributes to the reported longevity of Japanese. Adding to the suspicion would be Nanjo saying he had only three months to live in 1985. It could even be confirmed by examining Nanjo's medical records. Even if he didn't record Kinzo's death, he wouldn't have any record of treatments or Kinzo's condition past that date.
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2011-04-07, 07:35 | Link #22547 | |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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I could tell you that X, Y and Z are plot holes if I assume the plot is "A". But if plot is "B" then X, Y and Z aren't holes, but then I could find other elements K, J and so on that would become holes if plot "B" was true. And even then one could speculate that there is plot C that no one has really seen so far. This is what you get with a story that doesn't give clear answers about its own plot. So one could say: "You don't know if this is plot hole, ryuukishi probably has an explanation for this", but that can't be demonstrated nor falsified. People might even show you plausible fixes for a plot hole, but that doesn't mean that's actually what the author thought. Just because a certain event can be explained it doesn't mean it is explained in the story. But unless the author confirms or unconfirm this it's impossible to tell. A good example are many of the shkanon interpretations which explained (or tried to explain) the issue, which ultimately were proven implausible with later info. Then it all depends on your philosohpical approach on the matter. If you think you should assume an author is competent until proven otherwise then there are no confirmed plot holes in Umineko. If you think that an author must prove his worth, then whatever was left unexplained and it is necessary to understand the story or necessary to make sense out of it should be assumed to be a plot hole. And then Umineko has many.
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2011-04-07, 08:35 | Link #22548 | |
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Join Date: May 2009
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But if there is anything on file, it ought to still be at the Nanjo Clinic. There's no particularly good reason for it not to be if it exists.
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2011-04-07, 11:07 | Link #22549 | |
Dea ex Kakera
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sea of Fragments
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2011-04-07, 12:18 | Link #22550 | |||||
The True Culprit
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The Meta-World is a place where the thoughts of humans are elevated into a literal, transcendent form. It's a canvas painted by the hearts and minds of those observing it. It's much like the Otherworld of Silent Hill, or something. Quote:
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The anime implies no such thing; Eva doesn't manifest until they're all already dead. You're insisting your interpretations onto what the anime is actually showing and passing your interpretation as an objective view. Quote:
@Nanjo Records: Yea, Nanjo apparently took them with him. Even if they did survive, though, he'd probably have FAKED treatments and such. I mean, who's gonna contradict him if someone snoops?
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2011-04-07, 12:26 | Link #22551 | ||
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plot_hole Quote:
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2011-04-07, 12:28 | Link #22552 |
Dea ex Kakera
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sea of Fragments
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You know, it's actually quite strange. It's not like anyone on the island was going to demand to see Kinzo's charts, so why did he feel the need to bring them along? I guess he could have faked some up and planned to deliberately show them to the siblings, but there was no indication of that in any of the games that I can think of.
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2011-04-07, 13:04 | Link #22553 | |
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Join Date: May 2009
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I forgot he brought the info with him, although I suspect that's just what he told his son and not necessarily the truth. Odds are if there were any charts, he kept them on his person at all times (which is incredibly irresponsible, but we know Nanjo's not a very good doctor) or he simply lied and said he always had Kinzo's medical info with him and simply never prepared any (and if Kinzo was indeed dead, there's an obvious reason why not). The whole "three months to live" thing is incredibly suspect anyway. Three months to live on account of what? Under what treatment regimen? It really does sound like the sort of statement a person just makes up.
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2011-04-07, 18:11 | Link #22555 | |
Mystery buff
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Gone Fishin!
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The only blatant plot hole I can seem to recall right now is how we've been made to beleive that Rokkenjima was supplied with 900 tons of explosives despite the island being understaffed and Kinzo beleiving they never supplied them with any kaiten torpedoes.
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2011-04-07, 18:17 | Link #22556 | |
Thought Being
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Canada
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2011-04-07, 18:26 | Link #22557 |
Mystery buff
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Gone Fishin!
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I think that's how he wanted to write it. Suspension of disbelief would have just worked better if Kinzo had done the opposite of what he ended up doing and actually supported the idea of explosives instead of calling it ridiculous himself and giving us reasons to beleive it couldn't have been done that way. It's a plot hole to me because the facts don't match up. He didn't write that part that well.
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2011-04-07, 19:24 | Link #22558 | |
Thought Being
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Canada
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2011-04-07, 22:28 | Link #22560 | |
Dea ex Kakera
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sea of Fragments
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If you find a flaw in a witness's testimony, that's not a "plot hole", it's a clue that the witness is lying.
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