US Elections 2012 Part II: The Conventions, Debates and Election results

[Chiibi]

Originally Posted by Keroko

So, about that part where you asked for respect and the comparison to the christian/right wing stance on gays....

I'm not touching that subject. Sorry, it's just not happening with me. Personally, I AM friends with bisexual/gay people.

[Klashikari]

Originally Posted by Chiibi

It doesn't have to be a GOOD job. I would not mind paying taxes to someone on welfare who is stuck flipping burgers, just as long as they are doing something.

So, assuming someone can't find a job because the demand is way too high where they live, they simply shouldn't deserve your precious taxes you are paying?
I dunno if you realize this, but even moreso due to the major worldwide economy crisis, even picking low wage jobs isn't exactly a cake walk whatsoever.

There are so many possible reasons for someone unable to have a job past "being lazy", that your expectations are a tad too off.

[Keroko]

Originally Posted by Chiibi

I'm not touching that subject. Sorry, it's just not happening with me.

Hence pot calling the kettle black. Sorry, but demanding respect while refusing to give it is hypocritical in the extreme.

[kyp275]

Originally Posted by Chiibi

In this extreme case, I'd make an exception. Then and ONLY then.

Not everyone agrees with your view on when life starts, and your opinion isn't any more valid than anyone else's.

Originally Posted by Chiibi

Or....you know, it's called "adoption"? Even if she can't do it officially, she could leave it on the steps of a care center. Someone WILL end up taking it in!

Yes, which is why there are hundreds of thousands of kids that are still ward of the state waiting to be adopted

Originally Posted by Chiibi

No. I just have a problem with giving people who are too LAZY to get off their ass and find work my hard-earned money, that is all.

talk about stereotyping people

[Sheba]

About social welfare, yes, people taking advantage of it WILL happen. there is no way to deny that. However, it doesn't mean that all of them does. Some people desperately needs it because even with taking two or three jobs at the same time (and we are talking about one or two extra jobs that are illegal), they can't make ends meet without that welfare, because life have become much more expensive than.. about thirty, twenty or even just ten years ago. And let me tell you about social welfare, for those people who takes it, it's a hard blow to their own pride because it's a sign of how deep in the shitter they are. But they had to take it, because otherwise, they may be forced out of their home.

[willx]

Okay, people are piling on now.. How about a change of topic:

Graves concedes, Michelle Bachmann wins narrow re-election

I'm still shocked that people vote for her to represent them on the hill .. considering her lack of .. say, appreciation, for facts.

http://www.startribune.com/politics/...er=y&vi_adid=W

Reply hazy, try again later

[ganbaru]

Originally Posted by willx

Okay, people are piling on now.. How about a change of topic:

Graves concedes, Michelle Bachmann wins narrow re-election

I'm still shocked that people vote for her to represent them on the hill .. considering her lack of .. say, appreciation, for facts.

http://www.startribune.com/politics/...er=y&vi_adid=W

She appeal to a certain group of electors and it happen than there's a big bunch of them where she was trying to get elected.

Think about this: what is the worse, Michelle Bachmann or the one than elected her ?

[kyp275]

Originally Posted by willx

Okay, people are piling on now.. How about a change of topic:

Graves concedes, Michelle Bachmann wins narrow re-election

I'm still shocked that people vote for her to represent them on the hill .. considering her lack of .. say, appreciation, for facts.

http://www.startribune.com/politics/...er=y&vi_adid=W

Reply hazy, try again later

Well, they certainly deserve each other.

Too bad for the rest of MN and the US, who now have to put up with 2 more years of her crazy.

[Mentar]

Chiibi, with all due respect: I'm a practicing German catholic, and for me, the GOP would be completely unelectable. In my understanding, the core teaching of Christ is the grace of charity. Love thy neighbor. Care for the needy. Do not seek worldly riches. What did Christ do with sinners and whores? He didn't condemn them and demanded them cast out and punished, he sat with them. This is the exact opposite of what the GOP tries to do.

I can't take a political party seriously as "Christian" that on one hand dogmatically declares abortion a crime and mortal sin, yet at the same time openly advocates starting wars of aggression.

I can't take a political party seriously as "Christian" that openly advocates the use of torture.

I can't take a political party seriously as "Christian" that openly rejects the principle of welfare and helping the needy.

Hell, even the US Conference of American Catholic Bishops explicitly lamented that Ryan's plans were incompatible with Christian teachings.

Do you seriously believe that if Jesus were to be born into our modern times, he would find the GOP to be of his kind? I sure don't. How can you resolve all these contradictions?

[Ithekro]

The statehood referendum for Puerto Rico will be presented to Congress and the Obama Administration. It will be in their hands to see if the United States will expand to have 51 states.

Since 51 is a odd number, it could break ties in some cases (they add 5 representatives and 2 Senators and with then likely 7 electoral votes come the next Presidental election after they become a state).

I am notably excited by this because I am a historian, but also because I view the United States as an expansionistic country at heart. We've not expanded in a very long time and I think that could be a cause of national (psycological) depression. While we don't need to be invading other countries to take lands, we need to expands, explore, and settle new places (it is in our nature). The Ocean surface and floor within our EEZ could provide a "Frontier" for the Americans to return to their spirit. Or even more space exploration along the corperate lines we are starting to take (potental additional orbital stations for commerse and tourism for a start...projected mining of asteroids and potental settlement on Mars is another if the ban on Moon bases is maintained in the UN (so that no one can gain the "high ground" over Earth).

Also the addition of a 51st star will be something as well. A large number of people will need new flags in all sorts of sizes. We will retire the well worn 50 star flag after will more than 50 years of service.

[Neki Ecko]

For the EC standpoint, this is a God-Send, because now it wont be the dreadful tie.

But for a personal standpoint, I am kinda of glad that they made this decision. In my earlier days when I was in the Navy, I was stationed in Roosevelt Roads, PR for almost two years, and I really enjoyed it alot(alot of Anime fans as well). I believe that Puerto Rico can match up perfect with Hawaii. I hope they become the next state.

[Haak]

I just want to take the time to congratulate the American people for making an overall saner decision for the world's next four years.

[Xellos-_^]

Which office does Chelsea run for first in the next 8 years prior to her run fro the presidency?

1. House Rep
2. Senator
3. Governor

[DonQuigleone]

Yeah, but wouldn't it be a dead cert for the Democrats to win? Republicans ain't going to like that...

[Ithekro]

The party for Statehood is Republican leaning. (the out going Governor supported Romney and Statehood).

If they are added before 2016 and are given 5 Representatives and 2 Senators and the 7 Electoral votes are added, the new number is 545 Electoral Vote and the number to win the Presidency is 273.

Even if those 7 votes went Republican this year, it would be no were near enough to win for Romney. Next time will be a new game (though I imagine the Vice President will run for Precidency in 2016. They usually do. It would be up to the Democrats to nominate him though, and they can probably come up with better than him). Maybe those better Republican candiates that sat out this year will throw their hats into the ring in 2016.

[ganbaru]

The most accurate polls of 2012
http://www.politico.com/blogs/media/...of-148876.html

1. PPP (D)*
1. Daily Kos/SEIU/PPP*
3. YouGov*
4. Ipsos/Reuters*
5. Purple Strategies
6. NBC/WSJ
6. CBS/NYT
6. YouGov/Economist
9. UPI/CVOTER
10. IBD/TIPP
11. Angus-Reid*
12. ABC/WP*
13. Pew Research*
13. Hartford Courant/UConn*
15. CNN/ORC
15. Monmouth/SurveyUSA
15. Politico/GWU/Battleground
15. FOX News
15. Washington Times/JZ Analytics
15. Newsmax/JZ Analytics
15. American Research Group
15. Gravis Marketing
23. Democracy Corps (D)*
24. Rasmussen
24. Gallup
26. NPR
27. National Journal*
28. AP/GfK

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

So, assuming someone can't find a job because the demand is way too high where they live, they simply shouldn't deserve your precious taxes you are paying?
I dunno if you realize this, but even moreso due to the major worldwide economy crisis, even picking low wage jobs isn't exactly a cake walk whatsoever.

The government could create some make-work for them, but that comes with its own set of problems:
- it costs money;
- it may well displace people whose job actually was... whatever it is the government'll come up with, creating more unemployment.

[Irenicus]

Anyone has any ideas about new proposals for the fifty-one-star flags?

Oh, and since Obama won, how about you Canadians join us down here? We need to solidify the liberal majority, set history into stone, all that stuff, you know, and maybe just bring your entire healthcare system wholesale to the rest of us. Level up that piece of compromised bill from Obamacare to Canadacare. I still want a public option.

Originally Posted by Chiibi

I said I'm against people who take advantage of welfare.

As in the ones who don't deserve it. Able-bodied people who are completely capable of working!

Have you been in the job market lately? It's an employer's market out there; entry level jobs demand years of experience (a brutal contradiction to most job-seekers). Flipping burgers require a year of experience flipping burgers which you can only get when you get a job flipping burgers, so, uh.

People want to work. You have no idea how many people out there really, really want to work.

It's all irrelevant anyway. I'd pay any amount of taxes if it means my fellow citizens can maintain a civilized social safety net. Being the richest country in the world this shouldn't really be that hard. The few "abuser" cases are just like this election "voter fraud" cases, zip, nada, nil, a dirty, dirty lie (whereas reports of voter intimidation and various other election fraud indignities are still creeping in, though people are now less pissed off about it because "we" won).

And it's better to let the state take care of a child instead of killing it.

...under a Republican administration?

Originally Posted by willx

Graves concedes, Michelle Bachmann wins narrow re-election

And there goes my schadenfreude.

I'll have to content myself with the delicious tears of Victoria Jackson...and Elizabeth Warren's triumph...and Gay Marriage ballot sweep...and two passed marijuana legalizations. Eh, it's not too bad.

Originally Posted by ganbaru

The most accurate polls of 2012

Where did he fit in?

[james0246]

Originally Posted by Xellos-_^

Which office does Chelsea run for first in the next 8 years prior to her run fro the presidency?

1. House Rep
2. Senator
3. Governor

House Rep definitely. She doesn't have the gravitas for Senator yet, and while I could see her being Governor one day, it is still way too early. As it is, I do not expect her to run for office for at least another 6 years, if at all.

As for Hilary Clinton...she shouldn't run (for the White House) in 2016 and neither should Jeb Bush. I know both might want to run, but the system is not built to house empires or regencies. There should be no Clintons or Bushs () in the White House for at least another 12 years.

Originally Posted by Irenicus

Anyone has any ideas about new proposals for the fifty-one-star flags?

There was a real cool one a few pages back (at the top of the page). It was a circle filled with stars. Very nice.

Originally Posted by Irenicus

Where did he fit in?

Nate Silver is not a pollster, so he wouldn't be on a "best of..." list.

[Vexx]

Originally Posted by Chiibi

It doesn't have to be a GOOD job. I would not mind paying taxes to someone on welfare who is stuck flipping burgers, just as long as they are doing something.

Someone hasn't been looking for work in the last few years I see.

The job shortage is a world-wide phenomenon and likely to be a permanent feature without massive changes in the economic environment. Read more?

In the 1930s, the US government used all the extra talent to improve the county's infrastructure. The conservatives call that "socialism" but their "solution" (lets give all the money to the ones who already have lots of money) did not produce any real job growth at all over the first decade of the 21st Century. It didn't work in the late 1920s either.