(L) Spring 2006 BONES series: Ju Oh Sei

[Ori]

It's not a bad series. It's just a very short series that people won't really rewatch over and over again.

There are reasons why the manga was not THAT popular, but really it's not a bad story... rushed, yes, but it's still rather creative.

And come on, at least the author's not too scared to kill anyone like in Naruto.

[physics223]

That's a great description, Ori.

Or Bleach for that matter. Who has ever 'died' in Bleach?

[Ori]

Originally Posted by physics223

That's a great description, Ori.

Or Bleach for that matter. Who has ever 'died' in Bleach?

Yeah that too. <.<

Although for some reason I am more forgiving with Bleach. Perhaps it is this way because in Naruto we all thought perhaps at least one of those people who tried to rescue Sasuke died... but no. In Bleach we have always known none of them would die, so yuo don't get quite as disappointed with no one dying... that and the fact I like almost all of the characters in Bleach while I find many of the character in Naruto kind of lame after forest of death.

Jyu-oh-sei killed almost every single main characters in the show other than Thor and Chen. You have to respect that sort of daringness.

[physics223]

So ... Tiz dies. Meh. Darn it, and I wanted them to copulate. So Thor is left with Chen? It doesn't matter; Third and Thor REALLY look alike anyway. xD

[domino]

Originally Posted by physics223

So ... Tiz dies. Meh. Darn it, and I wanted them to copulate. So Thor is left with Chen? It doesn't matter; Third and Thor REALLY look alike anyway. xD

spoiler cut for the love of god x_x sigh..... I knew I shouldn't have checked this thread...

[aixchel]

Some ending thoughts on the series (no real spoilers)


It is too bad BONES, who has a good track record of very strong female characters, could not overcome what has long been considered mangaka Natsuki Itsuki's major weakness: her female characters are terrible. Another anime from the same author, Yakumo Tatsu OAV (relased in R1 as 8 Clouds Rising and available on DVD for $10), also exhibited that flaw, though the abbreviated nature of an OAV made it far less obvious. As such, in Jyu o Sei, by the time Karim showed up and then she, too, was lovesick and, lets' face it, stupid with unrequited love, it's hard not to roll your eyes in disgust.

Most read Itsuki's novels for the artwork (and she has a gorgeous artbook out as well) and because her mangas tend to have convuled stories (often shamanic) with anti-heroes. But you definitely don't want to start looking closer at the plot or trying to poke holes in her stories (unless you enjoy fishing out of a bucket). Just look at Jyu Oh Sei: The whole premise that women could control a male bestial society is ludicrous (even if they were the majority it wouldn't happen). Really, what's to stop the men from taking what they want? And that doesn't even touch on the scientifibabble.

But where Jyu Oh Sei was really weak was in the characters moreso than plot. Itsuki never lets you like any of them so it is hard to feel any emotion if they are wronged, offed, or ignored. And many are just purely pointless: Rai, top, Tiz, and especially Zagi seemed really pointless in the story arc that was, in effect, about Thor and Third. None of the supporting characters provided any kind of growth or influence on the main characters.

BONES can really make stories sympathetic and I really had hopes that would be the case here. But even the artwork was as uneven as the story. Overlooking really dated character designs was especially difficult (spandex? Third's Summer clothing straight out of the Flashdance movie) and the horribly cliched "generic peasants" that were probably recycled from Legend of the Galactic Heroes or El Hazard production archive. But Thor and many of the scenes were beautifully animated as befitting a BONES production and that was really the redemption of this series. As a result, I admit I spent most of this anime desperately hoping they'd get off the planet already and go back to the space station. Sure, Itsuki's works always feature a strong "survival of the strongest man' theme but I still had hopes that the proof of that championship would have moved offworld.

In any event, I think the 11 episode (perhaps 13 would have been as good or better) limit was a good one for this particular story. Too many of BONUS works get mired in the middle and it was nice to avoid that with this series.

[physics223]

@domino

I'm not sure with what I said. It may all be bullshit. I just wrote what people said happened. I didn't watch the final episode yet.

[Ori]

Originally Posted by aixchel

BONES can really make stories sympathetic and I really had hopes that would be the case here. But even the artwork was as uneven as the story. Overlooking really dated character designs was especially difficult (spandex? Third's Summer clothing straight out of the Flashdance movie) and the horribly cliched "generic peasants" that were probably recycled from Legend of the Galactic Heroes or El Hazard production archive. But Thor and many of the scenes were beautifully animated as befitting a BONES production and that was really the redemption of this series. As a result, I admit I spent most of this anime desperately hoping they'd get off the planet already and go back to the space station. Sure, Itsuki's works always feature a strong "survival of the strongest man' theme but I still had hopes that the proof of that championship would have moved offworld.

Jyu-oh-sei manga was drawn in a more old fashion/traditional style. Thus, the clothing style was also more dated than most manga of its time. It's a stylistic element that in my opinion defines part of what the series is. I think it's a nice touch that Bones preserve that element with full knowledge that it would not be look favorably upon by some people. It makes the series just that much more faithful to the manga, that much more like an animated version of the manga and not something totally different.

As for females characters being unless. I would disagree, in my opinion without them Thor would have nothing to protect. Without them, Thor would have lost just that much more of his humanity.

[domino]

Originally Posted by physics223

@domino

I'm not sure with what I said. It may all be bullshit. I just wrote what people said happened. I didn't watch the final episode yet.

spoiler tag might be good still... I was just skimming the thread and saw that and went "UWAAAHHHH WHAT? @_@ " since rumors like that are generally true... oh well... only the final episode will tell the truth!

I hope the final episode has another ridiculous twist. Like Thor stops angsting and becomes a ballet superstar or something. That would make me happy.

[tempest3991]

Well just watched the final episode.

This particular anime started out really , really good and had me definetly hooked. But i think the whole Karin thing, and episode 9, 10, and 11 were really a drag


Anyone else agree?

[Spinner187]

Totally agree,....this series need more episode to explain it better. It practically made little sense. Yeah the ending sucked

[deathbygirl]

I thought people would have enjoyed this series, but apparently I'm in the minority of those who liked it. I really liked the last episode; it was saturated with enough emotion to discard some of the series' weaker moments (the whole quick romance thing being one of them).

Spoiler:

The entire process of how Third finds out the truth about his entire life and how he decides to end the lie himself was IMO pretty moving, as well as the whole irony of the one place responsible for Thor's despair (Chimaera) becoming his ray of hope.

The very last scene, where Thor names the little girl Tiz, probably left the strongest impression on me as a whole. Although one could argue that the "hope transcends all" theme is really cliched, etc. it didn't feel like that as I watched the episode (a cliched theme done right?).

It doesn't like the series is going to get much more support than those who either like it or hate it, but I still thought it was a strong showing of a pretty interesting story.

[Ddadain]

As for myself, I liked the ending. The ending is totally fitting the beginning and the general feel of the anime/manga. This anime isn't at all "feely-feely-good-abouty", but rather a serious, melodramatic and mature. The underlying themes of hope, courage, sadness, despair, sorrow, love, sex, humanity, greed, lust and malice all are well balanced and executed to a good extent.

We cannot really blame BONES for the apparent "weaknesses" [if there is any] of this particular series since they only took part in the animation, which I might add was excellent. They had no hand in the direction of what would happen in the anime.

Overall, if I am given the chance to rate this, I'd give it 8 out of 10, and 10 being excellent, etc. It is well executed, its plotline stayed on track with its underlying themes and it met my expectations at the end.

I have but one complaint and that is the many deaths in the end It made me quite sad to have Tiz and even Third die. *_* But that is just me >_>

Bravo!

[domino]

Last episode has me... so confused o_o wtf is going on?

Spoiler for episode 11:

So to stop the ball and save Chimaera, Thor has to put a password into a computer to stop the rotation program... but when the access is denied, he SHOOTS THE COMPUTER and it works? (What a secure computer... T_T ) So unrealistic... the fate of an entire planet is at risk and no one hesitates to just start shooting at the computer. How the heck did that crazy plan work...

The ending was so rushed. It was all brainless action and they didn't show any of the parts that would've actually been INTERESTING, such as:

1) Thor's reaction to Tiz's death
2) whatever happened to Zagi
3) how life is back on Chimaera + the fate of the human race (after all of these Jyu Oh experiments, did they actually get ANY benefit from Thor's perfectness...?)

And for my list of "wtf":

1) Why did Thor's skin color change? And in the very end it looks like his hair had changed, too... why the hell would his adaptive DNA try to mimic a DEAD PERSON? Makes NO sense
2) angry naked rampaging Jyu Ohs? wtf?
3) Tiz's spirit appearing on the roof would've been touching if she'd had a POINT... all she did was point out the obvious. And how would Thor be so braindead as to believe Tiz was there when he knew she was still on Chimaera?
4) Why not just move the people to another planet? The planet that they were on when they destroyed Valkyrie looked like earth.
5) was the bit about Thor needing special surgery to live past his 20s true? Is he still going to die if he doesn't get the surgery?
6) Thor's white hair seemed very unique and stood out... why did Third happen to have the same hair color? If this is mere coincidence, the character designer deserves a punch T_T

Maybe I need to read the manga.... but wow, this ending was so rushed and terrible that I'm at a loss for words. The only good part was Third. Poor thing was totally crushed.... but his reasons for wanting to go to earth were pretty shallow. And he was going to fall down onto a ledge that had a LADDER... he could've easily lived...

all of these plot holes make my brain hurt x_x I'll just pretend this show didnt exist while I wait for the full release of the opening song...

[wao]

domino: regarding the Thor-needing-surgery to live past 20, I think

Spoiler:

he was the one who had the impression that he needed it, right? Typically OTHER people that live in that environment need the surgery - like Rai and all - but he didn't know he was special and actually didn't need the surgery.

[Aniki Meiski]

Domino's question

Spoiler for episode 11:

So to stop the ball and save Chimaera, Thor has to put a password into a computer to stop the rotation program... but when the access is denied, he SHOOTS THE COMPUTER and it works?
Answer: The Valkyrie system gone crazy and didn't accept Loki's password. They couldn't think of anything else to do apart from shooting the computer. It didn't make much difference. Dr. Loki did hesistate to destroy the system. It was Chimera's underground vegetatation that stopped those balls. So the planet saved itself without any help.

1) Thor's reaction to Tiz's death?
Answer: Lost, accept lost and hope for the future, else die like Odin with the old humanity

2) whatever happened to Zagi?
Amswer: Probably alive but it's unlikely that he will hang out with Chen, Night ring etc.

3) how life is back on Chimaera + the fate of the human race (after all of these Jyu Oh experiments, did they actually get ANY benefit from Thor's perfectness...?)
Answer: No. The people of Chimaera are the only people who can have babies naturally and live naturally in the entire Balkan system. Natural evolution. They helped themselves and survived on their own.

1) Why did Thor's skin color change? And in the very end it looks like his hair had changed, too... why the hell would his adaptive DNA try to mimic a DEAD PERSON?
Answer: He is a DNA chameleon. Well this isn't hard scifi. Well it makes sense to have darker complexion during daytime on chimera as sunlotion is scarce.

2) angry naked rampaging Jyu Ohs? wtf?
Answer: The makers of the show have played too much video games.

3) Tiz's spirit appearing on the roof would've been touching if she'd had a POINT... all she did was point out the obvious. And how would Thor be so braindead as to believe Tiz was there when he knew she was still on Chimaera?
Answer: Cause Thor is still a kid! Zagi said that.

4) Why not just move the people to another planet? The planet that they were on when they destroyed Valkyrie looked like earth.
Answer: All the other planets apart from Chimera are terraformed. It might be something bad they used during the terraforming process. Only humans adapted to Chimera and living on Chimera can reproduce and raise children normally.

5) was the bit about Thor needing special surgery to live past his 20s true? Is he still going to die if he doesn't get the surgery?
Answer: Probably not, unless Dr Loki has screwed up his genetic cocktail.

6) Thor's white hair seemed very unique and stood out... why did Third happen to have the same hair color? If this is mere coincidence, the character designer deserves a punch T_T
Answer: Eva Klein (Thor's mom), Rai, Third (Sigurd) are the only characters born with white hair (albino). Thor has albino appearance from mimicking mom's DNA when Eva was carrying Thor as surrogate mom. Rai was born using artificial womb with DNA from Eva and Theo. That's why he inherited mom's appearance. While on chimera, Thor's DNA was mimicking Third's true appearance. This is deliberate on the part of the production designers.

The only good part was Third. Poor thing was totally crushed.... but his reasons for wanting to go to earth were pretty shallow. And he was going to fall down onto a ledge that had a LADDER... he could've easily lived...
Answer: This is to contrast the difference between Thor and Third, one has found new reason to live and one has lost all reason to live (earth was destroyed.). I have no idea why he was so obssessed with going to earth.

With only 11 episodes, there isn't enough time to explain everything literally. So the audience has to read between the lines.

[domino]

Originally Posted by Aniki Meiski

Domino's question

Spoiler for episode 11:

So to stop the ball and save Chimaera, Thor has to put a password into a computer to stop the rotation program... but when the access is denied, he SHOOTS THE COMPUTER and it works?
Answer: The Valkyrie system gone crazy and didn't accept Loki's password. They couldn't think of anything else to do apart from shooting the computer. It didn't make much difference. Dr. Loki did hesistate to destroy the system. It was Chimera's underground vegetatation that stopped those balls. So the planet saved itself without any help.

1) Thor's reaction to Tiz's death?
Answer: Lost, accept lost and hope for the future, else die like Odin with the old humanity

2) whatever happened to Zagi?
Amswer: Probably alive but it's unlikely that he will hang out with Chen, Night ring etc.

3) how life is back on Chimaera + the fate of the human race (after all of these Jyu Oh experiments, did they actually get ANY benefit from Thor's perfectness...?)
Answer: No. The people of Chimaera are the only people who can have babies naturally and live naturally in the entire Balkan system. Natural evolution. They helped themselves and survived on their own.

1) Why did Thor's skin color change? And in the very end it looks like his hair had changed, too... why the hell would his adaptive DNA try to mimic a DEAD PERSON?
Answer: He is a DNA chameleon. Well this isn't hard scifi. Well it makes sense to have darker complexion during daytime on chimera as sunlotion is scarce.

2) angry naked rampaging Jyu Ohs? wtf?
Answer: The makers of the show have played too much video games.

3) Tiz's spirit appearing on the roof would've been touching if she'd had a POINT... all she did was point out the obvious. And how would Thor be so braindead as to believe Tiz was there when he knew she was still on Chimaera?
Answer: Cause Thor is still a kid! Zagi said that.

4) Why not just move the people to another planet? The planet that they were on when they destroyed Valkyrie looked like earth.
Answer: All the other planets apart from Chimera are terraformed. It might be something bad they used during the terraforming process. Only humans adapted to Chimera and living on Chimera can reproduce and raise children normally.

5) was the bit about Thor needing special surgery to live past his 20s true? Is he still going to die if he doesn't get the surgery?
Answer: Probably not, unless Dr Loki has screwed up his genetic cocktail.

6) Thor's white hair seemed very unique and stood out... why did Third happen to have the same hair color? If this is mere coincidence, the character designer deserves a punch T_T
Answer: Eva Klein (Thor's mom), Rai, Third (Sigurd) are the only characters born with white hair (albino). Thor has albino appearance from mimicking mom's DNA when Eva was carrying Thor as surrogate mom. Rai was born using artificial womb with DNA from Eva and Theo. That's why he inherited mom's appearance. While on chimera, Thor's DNA was mimicking Third's true appearance. This is deliberate on the part of the production designers.

The only good part was Third. Poor thing was totally crushed.... but his reasons for wanting to go to earth were pretty shallow. And he was going to fall down onto a ledge that had a LADDER... he could've easily lived...
Answer: This is to contrast the difference between Thor and Third, one has found new reason to live and one has lost all reason to live (earth was destroyed.). I have no idea why he was so obssessed with going to earth.

With only 11 episodes, there isn't enough time to explain everything literally. So the audience has to read between the lines.

Hm, your explanations help fill in some of the plotholes It's still unfortunate that they could've have stretched the series longer... even just 2 more episodes would've helped so much...

I also learned a new lesson: don't watch confusing scifi anime at 4 AM, or things only get more confusing

[wao]

Just out of interests' sake, here are the ratings for all the Noitamina series so far.

Spoiler for Honey and Clover:

Ep 01 - 14/04 3.8%
Ep 02 - 21/04 3.6%
Ep 03 - 28/04 4.2%
Ep 04 - 05/05 3.0%
Ep 05 - 12/05 3.2%
Ep 06 - 19/05 2.2%
Ep 07 - 26/05 2.1%
Ep 08 - 02/06 2.5%
Ep 09 - 09/06 3.6%
=====16/06 No rating (break)
Ep 10 - 23/06 3.8%
Ep 11 - 30/06 3.0%
Ep 12 - 07/07 2.0%
Ep 13 - 14/07 2.8%
Ep 14 - 21/07 2.8%
Ep 15 - 28/07 4.0%
Ep 16 - 04/08 2.6%
Ep 17 - 11/08 2.9%
Ep 18 - 18/08 2.5%
Ep 19 - 25/08 2.7%
Ep 20 - 01/09 3.2%
Ep 21 - 08/09 2.4%
Ep 22 - 15/09 4.0%
Ep 23 - 22/09 3.3%
Ep 24 - 29/09 2.9%
Maximum----- 4.200%
Minimum------2.000%
Mean-------- 3.046%
Median-------2.950%
Graph

Spoiler for Paradise Kiss:

Ep 01 - 13/10 3.5%
Ep 02 - 20/10 3.5%
Ep 03 - 27/10 2.9%
Ep 04 - 03/11 2.6%
Ep 05 - 10/11 2.7%
Ep 06 - 17/11 3.7%
Ep 07 - 24/11 3.4%
Ep 08 - 01/12 3.1%
Ep 09 - 08/12 2.5%
Ep 10 - 15/12 2.7%
Ep 11 - 22/12 3.3%
Ep 12 - 29/12 4.4%
Maximum-----4.400%
Minimum------2.500%
Mean-------- 3.192%
Median-------3.200%
Graph

Spoiler for Ayakashi - Japanese Classical Horror:

Ep 01 - 12/01 2.8% (Yotsuya Kaidan)
Ep 02 - 19/01 2.7% (Yotsuya Kaidan)
Ep 03 - 26/01 2.7% (Yotsuya Kaidan)
Ep 04 - 02/01 2.3% (Yotsuya Kaidan)
Ep 05 - 09/02 4.4% (Tenshu Monogatari)
Ep 06 - 16/02 3.3% (Tenshu Monogatari)
Ep 07 - 23/02 3.0% (Tenshu Monogatari)
Ep 08 - 02/02 4.4% (Tenshu Monogatari)
Ep 09 - 09/03 4.5% (Bakeneko)
Ep 10 - 16/03 5.0% (Bakeneko)
Ep 11 - 23/03 3.5% (Bakeneko)
Maximum-----5.000%
Minimum -----2.700%
Mean---------3.509%
Median-------3.300%
Graph

Spoiler for Juuousei:

3.4 4.1 2.9 2.7 3.5 3.3 4.0 3.5 3.1 4.9 3.1Ep 01 - 13/04 3.4%
Ep 02 - 20/04 4.1%
Ep 03 - 27/04 2.9%
Ep 04 - 04/05 2.7%
Ep 05 - 11/05 3.5%
Ep 06 - 18/05 3.3% (Koichi Domoto appears)
Ep 07 - 25/05 4.0%
Ep 08 - 01/06 3.5%
Ep 09 - 08/06 3.1%
Ep 10 - 15/06 4.9%
Ep 11 - 22/06 3.1%
Maximum-----4.900%
Minimum-----2.700%
Mean--------3.500%
Median------3.400%
Graph (Incomplete)

I'm surprised that the ratings didn't shoot up for the episode when Koichi Domoto started his role as the older Thor. But they did in the episode after that - perhaps people watched ep 6, said his voice sounds cool and then told everyone else. Or something.

Ratings like all statistics should be taken with a pinch of salt and pepper and tomato sauce to your taste... Sometimes the fluctuations don't really make sense, sometimes they do (like the last episode of ParaKiss being so high - probably because there were more people not going to work and staying up late so they flipped to the channel and just watched?) Furthermore, a lot of people record latenight shows... those don't get coutned in the ratings. Sometimes those recording people might just decide to watch it when it airs though. That can account for fluctuation, I guess.

But hey, it's just an interesting tidbit. It's more useful to compare it to other latenight anime which in general are lucky if they reach 2.5%. The ratings seem to have gone up in general since the first Noitamina show - perhaps the word spread and more people are tuning in (not that the quality necessarily went up )

EDIT: All statistics are taken from the anime viewer ratings matome page which takes ratings from magazines and by calling stations.

[physics223]

Bake Neko's arc had the highest percentage of people watching. It was also among the episodes in the Noitamina timeslot that had the best quality, story, character design, everything. (Though, being a romantic, I still like Honey and Clover more.)

Jyu Oh Sei had the best mean (aside from Ayakashi, of course) and that's pretty surprising. Perhaps Koichi Domoto *is* that influential.

[MrProphet]

Originally Posted by wao

Furthermore, a lot of people record latenight shows... those don't get coutned in the ratings. Sometimes those recording people might just decide to watch it when it airs though. That can account for fluctuation, I guess.

That doesn't get accounted at all, unless it's such a high percetage that it affects those people who have the ratings boxes connected to their TV-sets.

If Japan is anything like America, the ratings are devised exclusively from a sample of viewers who have a contract with the japanese equivalent of Nielsen Ratings and have that box that counts their viewing preferences.

Unless those people also record en masse are present among the sample who have the boxes, the ratings are not affected at all.