Clannad ~After Story~ - Episode 22 Discussion / Poll [END]

[DJLowrider]

Originally Posted by SageGaiGar

Yeah, they all die would've just been over the top "I am going to ruin all your hopes and dreams" kind of misery.

This is also know in anime fandom as "being Tomino'd". Look up the series Space Runaway Ideon if you're not familiar with the concept.

[Nosauz]

Originally Posted by alu546

You said it yourself, the fantasy elements were in small chunks.

Now we have a large chunk based fantasy ending, THAT came out of left field.

That is the core point, so please dont associate me with someone who wanted an extremely realistic ending, but its not as if i wanted to watch mood swings in an anime either.

Oh and to the other poster: I dont see how an episode with Ushio's death wouldve made a large point unless alot to the intended story occured afterwards. But I wish to point out the possibility that Ushio was made to die knowing he'd end up bringing her back, and that he wouldnt have killed her in the first place if he had full authority over the written works.

small chunks, but there was SOOOOO MUCH of it, you missed it good for you. actually I'm wrong on small chunks there portions of entire arcs devoted to the fantastical world that clannad is set in, but hey choose to ignore those too and all you've got is a 5-6 episode show.

[typhonsentra]

And the trainwreck finally comes to an end. It was actually so bad not even Fuuko could save it, which even I didn't expect.

Really, what the hell was the point of the previous 5 episodes? Was the audience supposed to be sad? How could there be any emotional weight to anything when they rammed it into your face at virtually every chance they could to "Hint/Elude" (Red: Scream in your face) that they were going to end it this way? Even if you were going to use a Deus Ex ending I still can't believe they left it with no consequences whatsoever. What kind of message does this all send?

[alu546]

Originally Posted by Vegard Aune

Quite possible. I like to think that, if Jun Maeda had gotten his way, the story would have ended with Tomoya finally coming on terms with Nagisa's death, forgiving his father and finally starting to treat Ushio like his own daughter. (Which would actually be a pretty excellent ending, I'd say.) And if not... then the guy is just evil.

.

And you know, an ending like that wouldve been excellent in my mind too, and wouldve totally suited the series. Heck, if it just turned out Tomoya was mistaken about Ushio's death(as speculated at times) and the story went off in that direction, that wouldve been great too.

BTW : Other posters are discussing this, but I know how Tomoyo After ends, and it was sad in my eyes, but thats why youll remember it. When watching this ending, I didnt know whether to be sad, happy, or angry, so now I just want to imagine something else happening.

[Change of Pace]

After rewatching, I feel the need to point out the fact that apparently in the KyoAni-verse, babies are BRIGHT RED.

[Ithekro]

Maybe babies are bright red when they are born.

[LelouchZeroFTW]

Originally Posted by typhonsentra

And the trainwreck finally comes to an end. It was actually so bad not even Fuuko could save it, which even I didn't expect.

Really, what the hell was the point of the previous 5 episodes? Was the audience supposed to be sad? How could there be any emotional weight to anything when they rammed it into your face at virtually every chance they could to "Hint/Elude" (Red: Scream in your face) that they were going to end it this way? Even if you were going to use a Deus Ex ending I still can't believe they left it with no consequences whatsoever. What kind of message does this all send?

I do agree with you that the story from

Spoiler:

Nagisa's death to Ushio's death

seems pretty irrelevant now, but I think the point was to show how this particular human coped with these events. What do you mean "consequences"? And "message it sends"? This wasn't about Tomoya murdering someone and then being allowed to go back in time and not murder them. This was about a series of awful things happening to an overall decent guy, and then him being able to have happiness through the power of his daughter (I think it's her that did it anyway).

I wouldn't be so unnerved about the way they did a

Spoiler:

Star Trek type timeline change

- this series has always been pretty fantastic with the whole Fuko arc in S1 and Tomoya's "I know this story about the lonely girl" drama play arc also in S1.

[DJLowrider]

Originally Posted by Change of Pace

After rewatching, I feel the need to point out the fact that apparently in the KyoAni-verse, babies are BRIGHT RED.

Perhaps not quite that shade of red, but right after birth yes they are. Hence why in Japanese babies are called "aka-chan", literally "small red" or "cute red" depending on how you decide to translate "-chan".

[PNGO]

Originally Posted by typhonsentra

And the trainwreck finally comes to an end. It was actually so bad not even Fuuko could save it, which even I didn't expect.

Really, what the hell was the point of the previous 5 episodes? Was the audience supposed to be sad? How could there be any emotional weight to anything when they rammed it into your face at virtually every chance they could to "Hint/Elude" (Red: Scream in your face) that they were going to end it this way? Even if you were going to use a Deus Ex ending I still can't believe they left it with no consequences whatsoever. What kind of message does this all send?

Yeah, it's like the last 5 episodes were like an "what if" OVA and the real story was that Nagisa had Ushio and nothing bad happened and they live happily ever after. But then again that "what if" OVA would have been irrelevant because it would still end with the happy ending because they would have gone back in time and fix everything... So in the end of the day it's like a "dream filler"! Yeah I will pretend like those last 5 episodes never happened.

[PNGO]

BTW am I the only one that thinks Ushio would look cuter with longer hair?

[Justin Kim]

I was so relieved towards the ending, but I quite didn't understand it fully at all. Can anyone answer my questions? I mean I never regret watching the Clannad series, the ending was just heartwarming but a little confusing too interpret.

Spoiler for Clannad After Story:

Ok so when Ushio in the illusionary world said goodbye to her father, did the both of them turn into those balls of light that went into the past and caused the miracle of Nagisa and Ushio being saved? Were those scenes actually real, as in was that the "balls of light," miracle that KEY put in the game? Also when Fuuko smells out the cute scent, I just don't understand - What significance does it implement when both Older Ushio and younger Ushio are sleeping behind the tree? Are they dead? Is this when Tomoya and Nagisa achieve happinness after the birth of Ushio?

[typhonsentra]

Originally Posted by LelouchZeroFTW

I do agree with you that the story from

Spoiler:

Nagisa's death to Ushio's death

seems pretty irrelevant now, but I think the point was to show how this particular human coped with these events. What do you mean "consequences"? And "message it sends"? This wasn't about Tomoya murdering someone and then being allowed to go back in time and not murder them. This was about a series of awful things happening to an overall decent guy, and then him being able to have happiness through the power of his daughter (I think it's her that did it anyway).

This is my problem with the message. It's basically saying that being a good enough person means bad things won't happen to you. That life will reward you for good deeds. Everyone here's probably lost someone important to them, how's that message make you feel?

[SSJiffy]

I don't know whether to cry 'foul!' or be satisfied with the ending.

[LelouchZeroFTW]

Originally Posted by typhonsentra

This is my problem with the message. It's basically saying that being a good enough person means bad things won't happen to you. That life will reward you for good deeds. Everyone here's probably lost someone important to them, how's that message make you feel?

I know dude. I agree. This won't happen in real life. But that's why people watch Anime or TV or films, to enter a fantasy world where impossible things can happen. All I'm saying is that there was so much supernatural stuff up to now in this story, so there's nothing strange in expecting a supernatural based ending.

At least the way this story was, we all had to experience the pain and loss, and then have a happy ending which as far I understand stems from Tomoya's good deeds (like based on Karma or something). Instead, they could have just made it a happy ending at the birth of Nagisa and finished it there. This way, we get both.

I still think it was a heart warming, and natural ending to this fantastical tale. This anime was definitely one to remember, keep and cherish.

[Rice_slayer]

Amazing episode. I dont truly understand it yet, but it was nice. 9/10, Fuuko ruined it...

[Ithekro]

Somehow I think people are coming away focused on the wrong message and this is effecting them in a negative fashion.

The message and themes from all the last episodes is still relevent and effects the viewers, thus the happy ending does not negate them from happening, nor does it say that just because you do good means you will get a happy ending. Basically it is giving you both versions of what it means to have a family, the good and the bad. To make the story fuction though, the bad is needed to be show first in order to appreciate the good far all it is worth. One usually does not know how well off one is until it is too late. Tomoya is given the chance to take that knowledge and use it functionally the second time around, after the removal of the other plot device people were complaining bitterly about...the mysterious illness.

Thus the two ending pattern gives us a world where bad things happen because of a plot device (illness) and then Tomoya is allowed to go back and relive events because he understands the meaning of family and the good and bads that come with it, and in doing so gets the main plot device removed so that event progress as they would have without any magical illness.

So for those complaining, what is worse for you?

A. A magical plot device that resets events?
or
B. A magical plot device that kill off a main character?

[Rice_slayer]

Well, I am currently playing through the VN, so I understand after reading your post now. 22 is basically the good end, 21 would be the bad end?

[typhonsentra]

Originally Posted by Ithekro

So for those complaining, what is worse for you?

A. A magical plot device that resets events?
or
B. A magical plot device that kill off a main character?

Both, and the show actually used both of them which gives it a multiplier bonus!

[Ithekro]

Can't have the good end without the bad end following episode progression. This and the effect of "that does family mean?" is partly why 17-21 are still valid even with the end result of 22.

I liked Fuuko's part for some reason. It was marginally funny, set a time period, and also gives some extra mystery to things that can be played with.

Also Fuuko has the issue of not being viable for the "what are they doing now" montage until Ushio is in kindergarden, as Fuuko doesn't wake up until then. Also tying up the mystical events from Ushio and Fuuko points out that things may still be "interesting" after the story ends.

Part of me wants a sequel centered on Ushio's high school days.

(As for the multiplier effect, take with a grain of salt that magical plot device A removes magical pot device B, thus if you really feel the need for it you could run he series to episode 16 then cut in from the middle of 22 and continue from there as if the magical plot devices never existed.)

[angel_wing0]

i liek how they referred back to season 1 OP near the end with ushio running on the flower bed. I hated at the end where fuko met ushio, but then i realized it was in the season 1 OP as well. Well well done.