(L) Kurokami

[taelrak]

Episode 3. Wow, just wow.

If ever there was an example of the 3rd episode curse, this would be it.

A decent show went waaay down the drain ... like...instantly...

I could deal with the drop in art and animation. I could deal with the voice-acting. I could even deal with the rather weak character development in the episode.

But they just had to add in a low-budget mahou-shoujo-henshin-omg-i-ran-out-money-for-this-episode scene for the synchro didn't they....... as if the episode wasn't painful enough to watch as it is...

[Malkuth]

Originally Posted by Sylphic

I was getting mad Shana vibes in the syncro scene. There have been far too many similar Shana scenes, and kuro really kind of looks like Shana when her hair is tinged red.

Only that Kuro is not a loli, carries no shinken, etc. Though the way the anime is made it certainly tries to look similar

Originally Posted by Sylphic

Is the source material any better? Eps 1 and 2 showed promise, 3 took all that and the kitchen sink and threw it out the window.

This is relative, IMHO the manga is far better 'cause it has a completely different target audience, but a few people around here furiously disagree

[Kaioshin Sama]

Originally Posted by Eej

Episode 3 is the first one that actually screamed "wow this episode sucks". Here's to hoping it recovers.

This is one of the worst episode reviews I have ever seen in my life and that's saying a lot since I've seen some pretty poorly constructed reviews. A textbook example of how not to do a review for any audience other then 4Chan. Forgive me when I suggest that I don't buy it when you say you hope it recovers considering the zeal with which you threw youself into raging upon it. This really is what the so-called episodic review has decayed to at this point, pure unadulterated exaggerated blind raging.

[Kaoru Chujo]

Originally Posted by Sylphic

...Is the source material any better...?

Yes, it is. It's unfortunate that the anime producers felt they had to steer the ship toward Shana-town. I enjoy the manga far more than I have ever enjoyed SnS.

In fact, I enjoy the manga so much that I retain hope for the anime. Or maybe I just like Kuro enough that I will not abandon her...yet.

[Malkuth]

Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo

In fact, I enjoy the manga so much that I retain hope for the anime.

I condone! Check the manga!

[Kaioshin Sama]

Originally Posted by Sylphic

I was getting mad Shana vibes in the syncro scene. There have been far too many similar Shana scenes, and kuro really kind of looks like Shana when her hair is tinged red.

Is the source material any better? Eps 1 and 2 showed promise, 3 took all that and the kitchen sink and threw it out the window.

I would not say the source material is all that much better. There are obviously some differences in the characterization, but the overall premise is still very much the same and I refuse to believe that the manga is aimed at the seinen crowd even if it appears in a seinen magazine.

In the end I'd chalk it up to no more then having to choose between reading and watching, but personally I'd choose neither. I honestly don't know why other people tend to oversell the manga so much and the only reason I can come up with is that it would serve to make the anime look worse somehow and to further illustrate the point that people don't like it.

Really though I think the anime has been beaten on enough at this point and should just be left to do it's own thing. I can't understand why some of the other posters seem to get such a kick out of trashing on a show that everyone has already agreed is mediocore (this isn't 2ch or 4Chan after all) instead of putting that time to use in finding something they do like to watch. If a person has been brought to the point where they are having a meltdown over a transformation sequence and feel it insults their sensibilities then that should the only sign that they need that it's time to move on.

Originally Posted by Malkuth

This is relative, IMHO the manga is far better 'cause it has a completely different target audience, but a few people around here furiously disagree

Aside from the fact that target audience has nothing to do with overall quality and only affects who a show is intended to be received by, yes I disagree completely. If the key issue is that the show has shonenish elements (that's automatically a bad thing apparently) then the manga still has them. The key issue though is that it's no more or less engrossing then the anime since it still has the same overall feel and contains the archetypal style of characterization that the anime has had up to this point, just that some archetypes are substituted for another and the order and portrayal of some events are changed around. Like I said above, it really comes down to a case of whether people want to spend their time reading or watching a screen....or perhaps ranting at a show that they themselves admit they aren't the target audience for.

[Deathkillz]

Kuro similar to Shana? I blame it on the propaganda

Spoiler:

Outsides of that, the animation isn't even remotely similar.

[Eej]

Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama

This is one of the worst episode reviews I have ever seen in my life and that's saying a lot since I've seen some pretty poorly constructed reviews. A textbook example of how not to do a review for any audience other then 4Chan.

This is one of the worst meta-reviews I have ever seen in my life and that's saying a lot since I've seen some pretty poorly constructed meta-reviews. A textbook example of how not to do a meta-review for any audience when you never even visit 4chan.

Forgive me when I suggest that I don't buy it when you say you hope it recovers considering the zeal with which you threw youself into raging upon it.

My zeal towards raging about shows is solely towards things which initially have promise and then fuck everything up horribly in the implementation. You can only truly rage if you actually care about the subject matter. Now that we have established that I do hold faith in Kurokami and I do rather enjoy the manga, we will move on to your next point.

This really is what the so-called episodic review has decayed to at this point, pure unadulterated exaggerated blind raging.

I don't do episodic reviews. I only talk about things which inspire some kind of response in me. Kurokami 2 was a non-event so there was nothing worth talking about. Episode 3 is like some giant clusterfuck of awful pacing and terrible characterization to the point where it merited a response.

If it was truly "pure unadulterated exaggerated blind raging" I wouldn't be focusing on specific points (namely Keita's apparent retardation, the ridiculously out of place shounen power up sequence) and in the same breath praising others (I enjoyed the fight animations and the voice work of Kuro). How is any of it exaggerated? How can you honestly say "talking and staring at your teacher while he beats a little girl in the face for about thirty seconds" is something an anywhere close to normal human being would do?

Maybe the next time you criticize what someone has to say, you'd address the points that they bring up rather than dismiss everything they have to say with sweeping words. I suppose this would be fairly difficult for you to do, however, since you've announced that you've dropped this show and should no longer be paying it much mind. Which of course brings up the question of why are you still posting about it?

[kamikazex]

letting the guy just stand in the back while having the girl take all the hits and do all the fighting is pretty weak...

[Kaioshin Sama]

Originally Posted by Eej

This is one of the worst meta-reviews I have ever seen in my life and that's saying a lot since I've seen some pretty poorly constructed meta-reviews. A textbook example of how not to do a meta-review for any audience when you never even visit 4chan.



My zeal towards raging about shows is solely towards things which initially have promise and then fuck everything up horribly in the implementation. You can only truly rage if you actually care about the subject matter. Now that we have established that I do hold faith in Kurokami and I do rather enjoy the manga, we will move on to your next point.



I don't do episodic reviews. I only talk about things which inspire some kind of response in me. Kurokami 2 was a non-event so there was nothing worth talking about. Episode 3 is like some giant clusterfuck of awful pacing and terrible characterization to the point where it merited a response.

If it was truly "pure unadulterated exaggerated blind raging" I wouldn't be focusing on specific points (namely Keita's apparent retardation, the ridiculously out of place shounen power up sequence) and in the same breath praising others (I enjoyed the fight animations and the voice work of Kuro). How is any of it exaggerated? How can you honestly say "talking and staring at your teacher while he beats a little girl in the face for about thirty seconds" is something an anywhere close to normal human being would do?

Maybe the next time you criticize what someone has to say, you'd address the points that they bring up rather than dismiss everything they have to say with sweeping words. I suppose this would be fairly difficult for you to do, however, since you've announced that you've dropped this show and should no longer be paying it much mind. Which of course brings up the question of why are you still posting about it?

A respectable defence minus the first paragraph. Mostly because now I get to hear your thoughts being aired without all of the cursing and jargon that made the initial review seem more like a joke post then like you actually cared about the material. I'll take this in lieu of your initial review. As for why I was still posting about it, the next episode hasn't aired yet and I still feel I have something to contribute to the discussion. Once episode 04 airs though I'll have nothing left to say as I'll be out of the loop.

Though I will ask how a transformation sequence can automatically earn a series the label of garbage? Aren't there more important things to consider then something like that? For me it's been that it just lacks intrigue despite the fact that it tries to create it with elements like the doppeliner system and synchronization. Second why do you spend so much time worrying about what he should have done when the teacher was beating on Kuro?

Speaking of which, in my opinion the general reaction to Keita's character shouldn't change much between the manga and anime version. The manga version is an insufferable jerk that lives off the charity of others and gives little thanks for it as a result of his personality while the anime version is an indecisive jerk that lives off the charity of others and gives little thanks for it as a result of his frequent inaction. Either way you end up wanting to hate the guys guts for how he interacts with Kuro, just for different reasons. I fail to see how this makes the manga's portrayal of the characters all that different then the anime's.

[serenade_beta]

Originally Posted by kamikazex

letting the guy just stand in the back while having the girl take all the hits and do all the fighting is pretty weak...

Well, considering he's just some normal high schooler and she's some... something that can launch fighting-game-leveled combos...

[Kaioshin Sama]

Originally Posted by serenade_beta

Well, considering he's just some normal high schooler and she's some... something that can launch fighting-game-leveled combos...

Dudley from Street Fighter III comes to mind.

[Shiroth]

Originally Posted by Deathkillz

Kuro similar to Shana? I blame it on the propaganda

I wouldn't say they are similar, heck they're nothing alike when it comes to personality, though both do share the same role in a similar setting. Hopefully that's what people mean.

[SuperKnuckles]

THANK GOD Kuro is not tsundere. If she was, she'd be voiced by Shana/Taiga/Louise/Nagi again.

I just love Kuro the way she is. That weird pantless look, the cutest dog sidekick I've seen in a while. Fisticuffing like Shane Mosley.

[Tiamat's Disciple]

Originally Posted by AlaAlba

to aru and shana, you right, this one is similar to them
and seeing that contract mark on his hand, that is similar to fate stay night
the author surely does really like to imitate other people's idea

From the info i can find Kurokami came first, then Fate Stay night. However that's kinda pointless, since the way the seals work in the series are totaly different. In FSN they were marks of absolute orders, as in they had to follow them, even if it went against their beliefs, and after each one a seal was lost. With kurokami it's totaly different, and all it does is act as a physical mark of the contract (or thats how its supposed to be in the manga atleast).

But as has been said, all the genres are really clones of themselves these days, it's nigh on impossible to have a totaly new story and concept. There's always going to be another like out there.

Originally Posted by raidou

can’t really avoid that nowadays….most shounen tend to have similar settings.

Amd here we have the crux of the problem. Kurokami is NOT a shonen series, it never was, it's a seinen series that they've tried to convert to a shonen, and as always happens when they do that, it fails big time.

[/quote]Actually if you read the manga version, the concepts and characters are rather original. Sadly, this doesn’t reflect much on the anime [/quote]

And that is the biggest problem with the anime, to many fans were expecting Kurokami in all it's glory, and we got a watered down kiddies fairy tale instead.

Originally Posted by Deathkillz

Kuro similar to Shana? I blame it on the propaganda

Spoiler:

Outsides of that, the animation isn't even remotely similar.

This i agree with, i think they did it deliberatly, to try and draw in the dhana fans, which wouldn't surprise me. What does surprise me is that they actuially got the okay from Park to make the changes. If he allowed these changes im not eactly looking forward to seeing how they're going to butch Chun Rhang Yhur Jhun, which is supposedly out later this year

[Kaioshin Sama]

And once again we're overselling the manga as a "seinen" to try and beat down the anime as a shonen because as we all know a show being shonen automatically makes it awful. At least that's what it seems people want me to believe.

I would like to ask again how people can find the manga versions of the character any more intriguing then those we see in the anime and why they think the manga is so incredibly stupendously amazing.

[Nightengale]

The one biggest difference that separates the manga and the anime, is simply in my opinion, character dynamics.

The manga had a positively engaging dynamic between Akane, Kuro and Keita even from the get-go. That in place with Keita's huge character differences among other things, breath a different breeze into the feeling of the series altogether. A frequent exchange of banters, abuses, lulz and interaction puts in place the very core of the manga version of Kurokami.

On the other hand, the anime had engaged a far different approach. Kuro's character remain generally the same, but with Keita's character greatly changed and Akane's dynamic pretty much changed as well, the feeling behind the engagement of the show also greatly changes. As far as episode 3 in is concerned, it's clear that no dynamic between the main trio of Akane, Kuro and Keita has properly been established. This is also generally affected by the anime's original inclusion of Keita's 'compulsive anti-social liar' development of his character.

As far as I'm concerned personally, both of them are 2 different animals. As far as what I've seen of both in my opinion, the manga is undoubtedly superior at the moment, but at the same time, I'm very much interested in how much the dynamic would evolve in the anime. The anime is easier to bite into atm, but at the same time, Keita as a whole has so much more room to grow and the anime has given more than one indication that's the general route they're going to explore more than the manga's... looking at Glasses Dude.

Spoiler for manga:

Besides, frankly, even if it is more light-heartedly fun, part of me never liked Keita being such an ass in the manga.

[Tiamat's Disciple]

Where did i say it sucks because it's a shonen?

Shonen series can be very good, hell a lot of them are. However the target markets between shonen and seinen are to different. When you try to rewrite a seinen series, which is aimed at a more adult market, to a shonen series, it loses a lot. This is exasperated even further in anime conversions when you basically throw the manga out the window.

As for why the manga beats the anime, it's the way things are handled in the manga, the attitudes and reactions of the characters are handled so much better. All of the characters have a place, and actually add to the story, rather than being a sloppy extra such as in the anime.

If you've never read the manga, or didn't like the manga, its hard to explain it (actually impossible IMO) In the manga the scense between Keita and Akane are some of the funniest, their reactions to each other, the way they talk to each other etc etc. THen you throw in Kuro and it just increases the hilarity. However Akane is also one of the key story hooks, and as the series unflods the seriousness of things comes through excellently.

Turning the series into a high school kids party destorys a lot of the key story line, not to mention removes a hell of a lot of comedy. However it also totaly destroys the relationships the characters have. It's like sitting down to watch say Disney's Beauty and the Beast, and finding it's really some cheap version that barely qualifies (bad example, but i just watched it last night so it was fresh in my mind hehe)

Do i think the manga beats the anime and rocks? Hell yes, but thats just my opinion. Do i think all shonen series suck? Hell no, far from it. Most shonen series that end up sucking are ones that have gone through a double change, usually seinen to shonen, then rewrite, usually to cram a load of material into a few episodes (12 or 13).

The sad thing is to do a series like Kurokami any semblance of justice would require a minimum of 26 eps, ideally 52. Unfortunatly the chances of an series getting that sort of treatment at the minute is pretty much impossible. Only a few will get that sort of treatment and investment.

If you enjoy it, then enjoy it. Almost every fan of the manga i know of who has seen this however has said the same thing, it's a hatchet job and a bad one at that. However alot of people who have never read the manga enjoy it. I just think it's a shame that the producers have alienated a ready source of income by changing so much.

I think fans of the manga would still have been faithful to the anime if it followed the manga more, kept it as a seinen series and not tried to reduce it to a shonen. But meh, if you enjoy it good for you

I watched ep3 earlier and my dislike of the series has hit all new lows and become hate, so i've dropped it from my list. I got the impression that they blew the money on the first ep, and everything else is being done by trained monkeys now

[Deathkillz]

Originally Posted by Nightengale

As far as I'm concerned personally, both of them are 2 different animals. As far as what I've seen of both in my opinion, the manga is undoubtedly superior at the moment, but at the same time, I'm very much interested in how much the dynamic would evolve in the anime. The anime is easier to bite into atm, but at the same time, Keita as a whole has so much more room to grow and the anime has given more than one indication that's the general route they're going to explore more than the manga's... looking at Glasses Dude.

This, but what I think is with the lack of "any personality" at all, room for growth is rather constricted. I personally saw more growth for the ass who is slowly thinking a bit more rather than acting on impulse than the "plank of wood" that we have here (a plank seen all to often these days).

[Nightengale]

Originally Posted by Deathkillz

This, but what I think is with the lack of "any personality" at all, room for growth is rather constricted. I personally saw more growth for the ass who is slowly thinking a bit more rather than acting on impulse than the "plank of wood" that we have here (a plank seen all to often these days).

Well, you have some point, but I wouldn't throw the towel yet since Keita for most parts, from his actions in ep.3, is still quite reserved and reluctant to even put on gloves, much less enter the ring. Heck, he was slow as a turtle seeing his teacher beat Kuro, and didn't start having 'emotions' riling up until he learned that Yamada was sold out by him.

As far as I'm concerned, nothing's started in Kurokami yet. Forget character dynamic, they've barely accepted each other genuinely and Keita's room for growth will be constricted until he fully accepts Kuro in his life. How things go from here on out will make or break the adaption of Kurokami.

Spoiler for manga:

Besides, frankly, Keita in the manga was pretty one-dimensional as well. He is 'differentially unique', but that doesn't make his character great. With the exception of the cringe-worthy MOTHER!!!!!!!!!!!!!! development for Keita in the Okinawa arc, his development has remained relatively static, with only marginal improvement in the same ol same ol' 'Kuro acts like an annoying little sister and I abuse her occasionally and occasionally like like a good bro too.'