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View Poll Results: Fate/Zero - Episode 16 Rating | |||
Perfect 10 | 74 | 55.22% | |
9 out of 10 : Excellent | 31 | 23.13% | |
8 out of 10 : Very Good | 22 | 16.42% | |
7 out of 10 : Good | 5 | 3.73% | |
6 out of 10 : Average | 0 | 0% | |
5 out of 10 : Below Average | 0 | 0% | |
4 out of 10 : Poor | 0 | 0% | |
3 out of 10 : Bad | 0 | 0% | |
2 out of 10 : Very Bad | 0 | 0% | |
1 out of 10 : Painful | 2 | 1.49% | |
Voters: 134. You may not vote on this poll |
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2012-04-22, 19:23 | Link #201 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: France
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2012-04-22, 19:39 | Link #203 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Age: 33
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Going to Have to Agree With Kiritsugu
The quotes from George Orwell that, "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf,” or that, “men can only be highly civilized while other men, inevitably less civilized, are there to guard and feed them,” epitomizes Kiritsugu perfectly.
People like Kiritsugu, whether in the military, or as members of the various Special Forces units peppered throughout each country, are the unsung heroes of the world. And military operations are routinely decided, based upon the utilitarian logic that Kiritsugu lives and breathes upon. The bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, for instance, resulted in the deaths of thousands of civilians, many of them children, but was justified based upon the idea that fewer people would die in those attacks than would die if a full scale invasion of Japan were to be orchestrated. Chivalry rarely enters into the equation.
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Last edited by LunarMoon; 2012-04-22 at 19:57. |
2012-04-22, 19:43 | Link #204 | |
Licensed Hunter-a-holic
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 35
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Considering I grew to like Waver, I prefer he stays as far away as possible from whatever torture Gen-san is cooking up for everyone involved ...
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2012-04-22, 20:16 | Link #205 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Should I hope so much from Gen though?
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2012-04-22, 20:25 | Link #206 | |
Junior Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
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They are surgical precision units governed by the military and the government. They are thus under the jurisdiction of the rules of warfare. They kill their targets as fast, silently and as efficiently as possible with the absolute minimum of possible blow-back . "If" they were to be found out to have massacred many civilians, they would indeed be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. They would be disavowed and thrown to the wolves. Kirigitsu on the other hand is not bound by such rules. He can and will kill anyone regardless of how many will die in the process for the greater good. He is not bound by any rules and as such doesn't need to take into consideration for the consequences. He is a assassin not a soldier. For example, he even brought down a whole plane full of innocents to kill one person. Couldn't there been better options that Kirigitsu could've conceived? Probably. But did he have to? No he did not because he chose not to. He more or less lost his value of human life. If Irisviel hadn't insisted that Kirigitsu evacuate the building, he would've been totally okay with killing everyone in it. That would even more brutally efficient, because then Kayneth probably wouldn't have realized that a surprise attack was coming. |
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2012-04-22, 20:44 | Link #207 |
Art Block Specialist
Join Date: Jun 2007
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With all those alliance talk from Rider, and that Chivalry talk between Lancer and Saber, I think a lot of people forgot that this is still a survival game. As much as Rider wants to avoid it, the only way to settle this competition is to fight to the death whatever means possible.
Now I don't really agree with the method Kiritsugu used nor his cold blooded nature, but I don't really see him as evil since he's playing within the rules. Was it necessary to torture other contestants to this extent? However, what that talk hinted at makes me very interested to see his back story. We saw some signs in the trailer and the OP, and I just wonder what kind of torturous hell he went through to become such a twisted idealist. On the same time, it's very fascinating to see the change to Kotomine. His discovery to true self and enlightenment is one interesting ongoing plot that many seem to have missed. Judging by the preview seems like the alliance between him and Tohsaka will be the spotlight next episode
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2012-04-22, 22:05 | Link #209 | |||
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Age: 33
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All of Kiritsugu’s actions, that we have seen so far, have been out of the former. Kiritsugu is a pragmatist and an utilitarian in the purist sense, believing in the value of sacrificing 10 people in order to save 100. He derives no enjoyment from what he does, loathes himself, and as shown in the first episode, believes that he’s unworthy to hold his own daughter. His combat style is based purely upon producing as little suffering, and with causing as few deaths, as possible, because that what utilitarians do. There is no evidence that Kiritsugu would be involved in any of the atrocities that you mentioned, because none of them, such as rape, serve any practical end. Quote:
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Last edited by LunarMoon; 2012-04-22 at 22:32. |
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2012-04-22, 22:16 | Link #210 | |
Counter Force
Join Date: Nov 2007
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And the example you gave in the first paragraph summed it pretty well why Kiritsugu said wars/battlefields are hell. And that's the reason why he will do anything in the most efficient way to win the Holy Grail War.
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2012-04-22, 22:24 | Link #211 | |
Wiggle Your Big Toe
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Milwaukee
Age: 33
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It is also not as if he is going around killing people all willy nilly without any regard for other uninvolved people's safety. As Alaya pointed out above me the guy will take the the course with least casualities if he is certain it will work.
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2012-04-22, 22:37 | Link #212 |
On a mission
Author
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"A crime called victory" And poor Irisviel. And silly Saber. And the shit was just fucking brutal mentally and physically this episode and we have so much more to go and descend to. This series is really hitting the home runs this season. 9/10 Now that's what you call a conflict.
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2012-04-22, 23:46 | Link #213 |
❤Ichigo 100%❤
Join Date: Jan 2011
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I disliked Archibald in the past and also sympathized for his romantic relationships, but my dislike lesser even more seeing how he give up his chances/pride to save Sola.
I like Sola, her design was very cute! RIP Die Emiya! GRR
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2012-04-23, 00:44 | Link #214 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2011
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Re-watching the episode, I've really taken notice of the rather obvious foreshadowing. I mean, can they make it anymore clear that the grail will be evil (yes, we are anthropomorphizing holy cups).
Between Lancer's dying words and Kiritsugu's notation that he will take on all the evils of the world to change it, I don't think we will be very surprised by the grail's nature in the end.
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2012-04-23, 06:20 | Link #216 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: My Desk
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The BD version of fate zero season 1 with all the missed dialogue has almost finished downloading, with that we'll see if there's anything else we missed.
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2012-04-23, 07:39 | Link #217 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
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I hope the scene between Reisei and Kayneth is extended when the BD set comes out. I would like to see if Reisei does mention that Waver and Kiritsugu collected their extra Command Seals already. Perhaps we'll find out something about that in the coming episodes too.
One thing I can't agree with is that Kayneth though it would be a good idea to kill the supervisor after the Seals had been awarded to others already. He has only one Seal. It doesn't matter if his opponents have 4 or 40, he's never overcoming that disadvantage. Had he left the supervisor alive, perhaps there might be future opportunities to win more Seals. Killing the supervisor now shuts that door. Yet, if the others hadn't collected their Seals already, I don't see why the supervisor would consider Kayneth's request at all. It'd be easy to argue that Lancer played no direct part in actually stopping Lancer. And if Waver doesn't get one for Rider's part, then Kayneth shouldn't get one for doing even less. |
2012-04-23, 09:10 | Link #218 |
<em style="color:#808080;">Disabled By Request</em>
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This episode was pretty much pure awesome. Call me sadistic but I rofled hard when Emiya was pretty much this:
"Here's a contract. Now sign it Biatch!" "Oh you signed it? You die anyway!" Talk about a straight forward version of Kyuubey :3. The Saber/Emiya talk afterwards regarding "just wars" was very interesting too. And who could forget that beserker rage face Lancer gave before he dissappeared. 10/10 for the episode. |
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