Philosophy

[gh0stmice]

any series with a decent amount of philisophical undertone would be nice....preferably 2002-2008




also are there any extremely good 2008 series
(plz dont recommend code geass)

[digitalmaster287]

Paranoia Agent had a bunch of philosophy in it. Not really my thing but you should definitely try it out. Evangelion had a bunch of philosophy and psychology in it too, but the ending is really bad IMO, though even that is very controversial among fans.

[qtipbrit]

I thought Evangelion's ending was good in that it was a summation of the characters' emotions throughout the series (and a realistic one at that), while it's six years before your preference, I'd give it a try just because it's a "classic".
Even if you don't like Evangelion's ending, the End of Evangelion movie gives an alternative ending, featuring the final occurences of the series in full detail as opposed to the original ending's "internal" perspectives.

Kino's Journey is 2003 vintage series whose entire focus is philosophies and their irony and inverse effects. Definitely recommended if you're looking for something thought provoking.

Mushishi is similar to Lain in many ways, with short stories involving human interaction with the "Mushi".

Shigofumi spent some time covering dark humanistic aspects and aired in 2008, fitting into both conditions.

For another relatively older series, try out Serial Experiments Lain, it covers socialistic ideas from isolationism to (lol) Jung's theories along with existence and its implementations, among others.



Oh, and obviously Code Geass.

[KholdStare]

I don't want to get into an argument with someone about what is "philosophical" and what is not, so I'll just list recent anime that to me had a deeper meaning behind it:

Elfen Lied
Bokurano
SaiKano
Haibane Renmei
Gunslinger Girl

For good 2008 series, I highly recommend Nijuu Mensou no Musume and Nogizaka Haruka no Himitsu as well as the Kara no Kyoukai movies.

---

And I second Kino's Journey, Shigofumi, and Mushishi, although they are not my favorites.

[khryoleoz]

I don't mind engaging an argument if it happens. Deep personal meaning can be derived from watching Naruto also just as one would watching a cock fight. But like all those other titles, any philosophical underpinning is an inevitable expression of the personal content of the creative forces behind the title. They may be there by intention or out of compulsion, but they're there regardless of the title's subject because all people hold to some philosophy one way or another.

It's rather peculiar to me that the likes of Elfen Lied and Haruka Nogizaka's Secret make a list that is a response to a suggestion for philosophy heavy anime. I would think that an even more obvious recommendation would be the Ghost in the Shell franchise, or pretty much any Masamune Shirow title. They reek of philosophical babel.

My recommendation is to simply enjoy anime. When any entertainment medium starts expositing philosophical doctrine, you'll either find yourself agreeing or disagreeing, not because it has the power to pursuade or dissuade, but because you yourself have already formed a world view that the title either affirms or denies. If you want exposure to philosophical thought, just ask any question. Then you have mastered philosophy.

If you are still hungry for cerebrally charged anime, my personal recommendation is Moetan. It's chock full of Jungian archetypes and Freudian categorizations. And it's bar none the BEST series there is.

[inkyubasu]

With a decent amount of philosophy, I guess:
- Bokurano: About life and existance

And with an indecent amount (indecent = A LOT):
- Ergo proxy: Most chapters near the end are brainstorming
- Noein: The technological theories are extremely hard (they are fantasy anyway) and the end is philosophically shocking

[KholdStare]

Originally Posted by khryoleoz

I don't mind engaging an argument if it happens. Deep personal meaning can be derived from watching Naruto also just as one would watching a cock fight. But like all those other titles, any philosophical underpinning is an inevitable expression of the personal content of the creative forces behind the title. They may be there by intention or out of compulsion, but they're there regardless of the title's subject because all people hold to some philosophy one way or another.

It's rather peculiar to me that the likes of Elfen Lied and Haruka Nogizaka's Secret make a list that is a response to a suggestion for philosophy heavy anime. I would think that an even more obvious recommendation would be the Ghost in the Shell franchise, or pretty much any Masamune Shirow title. They reek of philosophical babel.

My recommendation is to simply enjoy anime. When any entertainment medium starts expositing philosophical doctrine, you'll either find yourself agreeing or disagreeing, not because it has the power to pursuade or dissuade, but because you yourself have already formed a world view that the title either affirms or denies. If you want exposure to philosophical thought, just ask any question. Then you have mastered philosophy.

If you are still hungry for cerebrally charged anime, my personal recommendation is Moetan. It's chock full of Jungian archetypes and Freudian categorizations. And it's bar none the BEST series there is.

I see more philosophical undertones in Elfen Lied than most anime I've watched, but like you said, it's probably my "expression of the personal content of the creative forces behind the title," and may very well not be the intent of the director. Unfortunately, it seems that very few see the same thing I see in Elfen Lied, so you stand not alone.

Nogizaka Haruka no Himitsu was a recommendation for good 2008 series, which I interpreted as separate from the philosophical request (mainly because of the Code Geass inclusion).

I was also about to suggest Moetan, but didn't because I thought that it was a personal reference. After all, it's one of my favorites, but many will just see ecchi and stop.

[khryoleoz]

Well, I expressed most of the stuff I wrote tongue in cheek. But I'm not kidding about Moetan. It IS the BEST series evah! Then again, give Masaya Onosaka a major role in any series and it will be the BEST series evah!

[gh0stmice]

Originally Posted by khryoleoz

My recommendation is to simply enjoy anime. When any entertainment medium starts expositing philosophical doctrine, you'll either find yourself agreeing or disagreeing, not because it has the power to pursuade or dissuade, but because you yourself have already formed a world view that the title either affirms or denies. If you want exposure to philosophical thought, just ask any question. Then you have mastered philosophy.

.

ummmm....maybe im not understanding what you are trying to say, but this seems pretty irrelevant. my recommendation to myself would also be to enjoy anime, and prefferably one of a philisophical nature....i dont understand why you would tell me to enjoy my anime especially when i must obviouly enjoy it currently being that im on a anime forum board asking for anime recommendations...so i already simply enjoy it.

the title affirming or denying what??....how does the title "elfen lied" affirm or deny anything???....please clarify because i have no idea what this means


If you want exposure to philosophical thought, just ask any question. Then you have mastered philosophy.------------------
so would you say to a person who wanted to watch an action movie to insead start a underground fight club or join the military? would that be a good supplement?? probably not because he would much rather watch an action movie, just like i currently would rather watch a series with philisophical undertone


and leveling all of philosophy down to "asking questions" doesn't give this old institution justice..its much more complex im sure, for asking questions alone doesn't solve anything.




MOETAN kinda looks like lolicon ecchi stuff, and im not really into all that...

[TinyRedLeaf]

A simple search would have turned up these threads:

• Psychological/philosophical anime?
• Existential, Philosophical, Psycological or Sociological Anime

[khryoleoz]

Woah! I don't know whether you're putting me on by responding seriously to my post.

I think you've got your wits about you enough to detect where I'm really just BS'ing.

I may have made an error in assuming that you were looking for philosophy toned anime as a substitute for a serious inquiry into philosophical concerns. There was, as you clarified, the other chance that you simply got your kicks off of sophistry delivered in the fine medium of anime.

My bad. But I still would suggest Moetan, not for a substantive analysis of Jungian or Freudian theory, but because it's FUN.

And if you really still must indulge in heavily cerebral anime, then extend the range of your period to the 80s and try Grave of the Fireflies, and the 90s with Now and Then Here and There. Oh, and you're gonna love Ghost In The Shell Innocence.

However, that you could not follow the logic of my statement makes me a little dubious about your preparedness for such titles, especially the pretentiously verbose Innocence.

Let me see if I can walk you through.

The antecedent subject that predicates my saying a certain title would affirm or deny is the world view that you have already formed. I don't think that you can miss the meaning with a contextual reading of the statement. But I'm no logician, just turgidly literate, and not even remotely perfect or advanced at that.

[gh0stmice]

now i see what you are saying....
i thought you meant the world view was derived from the actually "phonetic" title; which then would be either affirmed or denied. because i am not a linguist i will explain further. i thought the actual title, for example, elfen lied held a contreversial argument within its "actual" title , and not the "actual series" from which i would either affirm or deny based on judgment not of my own, but that of the world view


i appologize,and after a second glance i can make clear of what you are saying. but dont sully my name by telling me that i would not be able to keep pace with an "anime" however verbose it may be. thats just insulting. i will blame my folly on the after hours nature of the time when i made my post

this was fun even though it was short lived

im not swayed by popular intrest anyway, so i wouldn't worry if i were you about my ability to separate truth and popular appeal...


and no im not looking for sophistry in particular, but that is always a fun and entertaining option.

[anselfir]

if i see eva linked with philosophy one more time......!

generally, the philosophical reflection one gets out of animu or any media is less dependent on the works themselves, the so called directed narrative, and more on one's own philosophical background. learn your philosophy, and then watch shows with realistic and balanced portrayals of ordinary (read, nonmetaphysical) events and issues.

take existentialism then, a show that screams angst, bawwwwwwwwwl etc may not be as good a presentation of existentialism as your generic shounen hero finding himself.

in any case, when laymen say philosophy, i have no idea what that means. mystical gibberish for one does not count.

[gh0stmice]

Metaphysics investigates the nature of being and the world. Traditional branches are cosmology and ontology.

Epistemology is concerned with the nature and scope of knowledge, and whether knowledge is possible. Among its central concerns has been the challenge posed by skepticism and the relationships between truth, belief and justification.

Ethics, or 'moral philosophy', is concerned with questions of how persons ought to act or if such questions are answerable. The main branches of ethics are meta-ethics (sometimes called "analytic ethics"), normative ethics and applied ethics. Metaethics concerns the nature of ethical thought, comparison of various ethical systems, whether there are absolute ethical truths, and how such truths could be known. Ethics is also associated with the idea of morality. Plato's early dialogues include a search for definitions of virtue.

Political Philosophy is the study of government and the relationship of individuals and communities to the state. It includes questions about law, property, and the rights and obligations of the citizen.

Aesthetics deals with beauty, art, enjoyment, sensory-emotional values, perception, and matters of taste and sentiment.

Logic deals with patterns of thinking that lead from true premises to true conclusions. Beginning in the late 19th century, mathematicians such as Frege began a mathematical treatment of logic, and today the subject of logic has two broad divisions: mathematical logic (formal symbolic logic) and what is now called philosophical logic.

Philosophy of Mind deals with the nature of the mind and its relationship to the body, and is typified by disputes between dualism and materialism. In recent years there is an increasing connection between this branch of philosophy and cognitive science

(ripped from wikipedia)

so you know what im looking for

how about you guys tell me shows that could possibly pertain to my request opposed to calling me stupid for asking....

existentialism is an infinetismal aspect of philosophy when you compare it to the wide spectrum that philosophy actually is....im not a philosophy buff, but i did think it would be interesting to watch a show that had philisophical undertones(key phrase)...if you know of a show that has Philisophical undertones then plz share....

i understand where your coming from when you say that the average shonen has existential elements in it, but if you feel the show is unenjoyable or feel it wouldn't be something i would find entertaining then refrain from that particular recommendation...

man im getting tired of you gosh darn college kids picking fights on topics, thinking your arguement has some substance when in reality we arn't discussing the same thing. who cares if i dont have a philisophiocal background; it doesn't detriment my ability to enjoy a show with philisophical undertones...

example for what i would call entertaining movies with philisophical undertones

-clerks
-brave new world(book)
-igby goes down
-american beauty
-clockwork orange


all of which go beyond existentialism.........sitting in my chair and typing could be viewed as an existential act seeing that it pertains to existing...

[KholdStare]

Well well, interest "discussions" so far that I originally tried to stay out of as stated in my original post...

One thing though is that when khryoleoz said title, I didn't literally interpret it as the "title," but rather, the anime itself.

Also, Moetan isn't your regular ecchi series, but if you absolutely hate ecchi, then it will distract you from other messages thereof.

I still recommend these series:

Elfen Lied
Bokurano
SaiKano
Haibane Renmei
Gunslinger Girl

...because to me they share a similar feel to Now and Then, Here and There (which I would have recommended but I checked its date). At least, Haibane Renmei and Bokurano are right on. Shigofumi, however, might be exactly what you're looking for, and I'll stress it since you never commented on if you've seen any of my recommendations.

[gh0stmice]

ive seen them all but shigofumi


and interpreting it as the actual title was my mistake....once again ill blame it on after hours viewing

[Saleh]

Some recommendations (2008 only) -

Amatsuki, Hatenkou Yuugi (2008) - Both of them have highly philosophical story line but have a cliffhanger ending for now.

Natsume Yuujinchou (Ongoing) - Its story revolves around the quest of Natsume Takashi ( Grandson of a pristess Reiko) to return the names of sprits back from book of fiends. Most of the story is philosophical in nature.

Nabari No Ou (Currently airing) - Its a decent ninja series which is heavily plot oriented (instead of action) with small fight scenes but has decent amount of ethical & philosophical values (especially during later episodes).

xxxHOLiC Kei - Chances are that you already know everything about it .

Kurenai, Blades of Immortal (Ongoing)

[KholdStare]

Kure-nai can also be filled with different messages if you want it to me.

[MuraKami]

Originally Posted by gh0stmice

any series with a decent amount of philisophical undertone would be nice....preferably 2002-2008

also are there any extremely good 2008 series
(plz dont recommend code geass)

Additional suggestions:

Planetes - 2003-4
Kaiba - 2008

[Reckoner]

I'd suggest Texhnolyze, it doesn't spout philosphy like an anime such as Ergo Proxy, but it is defintely a great anime worth looking into if you're interested in anime that make you think.