[Anime-only] Shippuden Episode 159 Discussion

[CoreyPmc1]

@Wingdarkness.- I like the Coolzone (It's to hot to be anywhere else )

Originally Posted by iBeast

Are you taking that seriously? First of all, look at how overrated Tsunade is...she's pretty weak to be considered in the same category as Oro and Jiraiya...and even then Oro is decades above Jiraiya. Go watch the search for Tsunade arc again...Oro with no arms dominating Jiraiya and Tsunade.

According to the data book Kakashi is both stronger than Sasuke and Naruto while being on par with Itachi

To be honest, I just stated that because I thought it would hold more ground if I stated a quote rather then my opinion... but regardless I don't see how someone can say Oro is decades pass Jiraiya. Oro is one of my favorite bad guys but Jiraiya has proven many times that he's not a force to be reckon with.

(Also, Itachi said that if he full out fought with Jiraiya it would end in a stalemate at best [I'm not sure if he knew about sage mode] yet, each time he went against Oro he came out ahead in one or two moves)

As far as the stats are concern I don't fully take it at face value (though Itachi was actually placed higher, not lower, then Kakashi) but I'm pretty sure when comparing people considered in the same level of power (like the Sannins), Kishimoto was most likely considering there stats in comparisons to the other members.

You're probably gonna still say Oro is stronger... and I don't really mind or care to argue/debate it because it's all opinion until Oro and Jiraiya actually have a full out fight, and I like to just read forums not so much the writing in them..... (Jiraiya is the best trainer in Naruto though (random)

[MidnightViper88]

Originally Posted by james0246

Whatever the case, and to piss off MidnightViper88, Asura would fall first .

Huh, someone say my name? Is there a memo I should know about?

You guys are just haters because the Asura Path looks inhumanly bizarre...



If someone's trying to play hypothetical battle of Pain vs. Orochimaru, well, the sure-fire way to destroy Orochimaru would be for the Preta/Human paths to just remove the soul; Sarutobi almost made that a good point against Orochimaru over 100 years ago, but was a far more mortal character than Pain currently is...As far as an out-right direct battle goes? Who knows...

Best case to make for Orochimaru is that he's a monster; Forget the times when he fought Sarutobi and Jiraiya/Tsunade, because his A-game came when he fought Naruto during his berserker mini-Kyuubi 4-tails rage...Physically destroying him is hard to do because of the experiments and forbidden techniques he's used on his body, seeing how he can simply "regenerate" himself if need be, and that was shown even after taking direct physical hits from the Kyuubi's chakra...

Best case for Pain is that 6 against 1 would probably actually be a fair fight; Without much current context into the actual potentials for each of the Paths, it's difficult to make a judgement, but if you can base the fact that Pain was able to kill Hanzo, a character not even the Sannin were able to defeat together, Pain might have a good chance at dealing some serious damage...The Rinnegan might also help, since it seems the Sharingan have really been the only thing able to fatally trip Orochimaru up; Once when the body transfer was reversed by Sasuke, and finally when sealed by Itachi's Susanoo, so a powerful ocular technique is key...

[wingdarkness]

@james -

But I do have an idea because the anime has shown me that Oro outclassed Jaraiya's a$$ since they were young, and they beat into my head like a Kakashi-Nail that Oro was the special one while Jaraiya was the unmotivated over-achiever...I give Oro mad props for standing his ground against 2 sanins and owning them during intervals of the match with zero hand-signing and basically his least favorite fighting style of Taijutsu...Being a legendary fighter is more than what you do on gameday, it's the whole caboodle and part of Jaraiya's downfall is his susceptibility to getting emotionally played whether it be a brothel b!tch or an old flame poisoning his drink...

He's a baka...Not on Naruto's level but he's an idiot sometimes, so i feel like Oro's malicious intent and fascination with the ninja arts is an advantage when going into a huge or ominous battle (Against someone like Pain)...Say for a moment that Jaraiya had no history with Pain, would he have analyzed things in that fight better than Oro would have? Half of his intuition on the fight was from training that damn monster and knowing who the Pain bodies were previously...Hell that even makes me realize that maybe i was too harsh on Kakashi now that i think about it...Ero got his throat pwnt with more knowledge (Initially that is)...

Originally Posted by james

And I proved you wrong . Oro-kun would be beaten the same as or worse than Jiraiya...

Did you?

Originally Posted by What I've been saying

Could Orochimaru have killed at least 3 bodies? Maybe.

Did you prove yourself wrong first? Beating 3 Pains is fairing better in my book...

Dude, come on, you can't just indict me without also signaling Hunter as well .

Hunter moderates for a living, you don't...Once you get that neato title under your name all bets are off ...

[ddanny82]

its christmas for naruto kage mode and a sharigan hes about to be unstopable

[neshru]

Episode 160 preview screenshots:

Spoiler:

http://www.naruto.com/nablog/upimg/431_1.JPG
http://www.naruto.com/nablog/upimg/432_1.JPG
http://www.naruto.com/nablog/upimg/433_1.JPG

[Kakashi]

Originally Posted by Vindi89

I think you're over rating Itachi and under-rating Pain. I don't think Itachi has the staying power to fight someone like Pain.

Is Itachi known for having low chakra reserves now or something? He seemed to have a fair amount even with his illness (even more than Sasuke). Fit and healthy I'd imagine he'd have plenty to deal with Pain.

And if any three of his MS techniques worked, he would have a good chance. Not that we'll ever find out.

I still think it's safe to say Pain would beat Orochimaru, maybe not as quickly because of the nature of Itachi's Tsukuyomi, but we just don't know for sure like we do with Itachi. With Oro and Pain it would be more of an actual fight at least. MS is unfair because it can take fighters who might be just as skilled as the user and end everything if the opponent doesn't have a) MS b) a lot of HATRED apparently or c) a method of fighting effectively while avoiding direct eye contact

Given that Pain stated Jiraiya coud have beaten him had he known his "secret", there's a slim chance Oro would find out and, being around Jiraiya's level, been able to win.

[james0246]

Originally Posted by Kakashi

Given that Pain stated Jiraiya coud have beaten him had he known his "secret", there's a slim chance Oro would find out and, being around Jiraiya's level, been able to win.

Than again, it could be that the only way Jiraiya learned of Pain's "secret" was because of Sage Mode/Senjutsu, in which case he was unique and Orochimaru couldn't use similar methods...

Whatever the case, I think any fight between Pain and Itachi or Orochimaru would have been fun...

[Kakashi]

Originally Posted by james0246

Than again, it could be that the only way Jiraiya learned of Pain's "secret" was because of Sage Mode/Senjutsu, in which case he was unique and Orochimaru couldn't use similar methods...

Whatever the case, I think any fight between Pain and Itachi or Orochimaru would have been fun...

Maybe yeah, then there's also the deal with Jiraiya being the only who could recognize the 6 bodies and got that something was up. The implications of this aren't clear yet though.

But yeah, still not looking good for Oro.

[james0246]

^I always forget about that extra bit of info (O-Ji-Chan knowing the bodies previous to becoming Pain)...

Originally Posted by neshru

Episode 160 preview screenshots:

Spoiler:

http://www.naruto.com/nablog/upimg/433_1.JPG

Here's the entire episode, or at least the point I am going to be focusing on the most ...

[Kafriel]

^I always forget about that extra bit of info (O-Ji-Chan knowing the bodies previous to becoming Pain)...

Too bad, it was the key of Jiraiya's battle :P I doubt anyone else would have been able to discern Pain's final secret, unless they could perform an autopsy and start tracking chakra signals, all the while avoiding the 6 death machines in front of them.

[SuigetsuKun]

You mean... like a Hyuga for example?

[wingdarkness]

Originally Posted by james

Whatever the case, I think any fight between Pain and Itachi or Orochimaru would have been fun...

"Heh, NOW it's worth discussing..." He said with tongue planted firmly in cheek...See how your premise changed even so slightly?

Moving on, does Sharingan have any effect on Rinnegan or do you have to find the original user for it to work? (Obviously if this is a spoiler don't answer) I don't know what Pain's intrinsic relationship to Papa Sharingan (Tobi) is, but I have to think Tobi isn't useless against him if he were to turn...

[Demon God]

Originally Posted by wingdarkness

"Heh, NOW it's worth discussing..." He said with tongue planted firmly in cheek...See how your premise changed even so slightly?

Moving on, does Sharingan have any effect on Rinnegan or do you have to find the original user for it to work? (Obviously if this is a spoiler don't answer) I don't know what Pain's intrinsic relationship to Papa Sharingan (Tobi) is, but I have to think Tobi isn't useless against him if he were to turn...

Well I believe the Rinnegan...,has what it takes to deal with the Sharingan users.

[james0246]

Originally Posted by wingdarkness

"Heh, NOW it's worth discussing..." He said with tongue planted firmly in cheek...See how your premise changed even so slightly?

Actually, I never said a discussion of Pain v. everyone wasn't worth discussing. I said a discussion about Jiraiya v. Orochimaru (or trying to adequetly compare them) was kind of pointless (which is why I said the encounter between the 3 is almost irrelevent for a real discussion, and also why I gave empirical evidence that proved that Jiraiya has actually shown a greater amount of techniques and variety than Orochimaru did), not that a discussion of Pain owning Jiraiya, Orochimaru or Itachi would be pointless or fun ...

Theoretically, the Rinnegan should own all (considering the original Rinnegan user was, more or less, a God who created the entire Ninja world, and his eyes were supposed to have the ability to save or destroy the world...), but knowing Kishimoto, EMS will somehow surpass the heavenly eyes...

[Ero-Senn1n]

Originally Posted by james0246

Theoretically, the Rinnegan should own all (considering the original Rinnegan user was, more or less, a God who created the entire Ninja world, and his eyes were supposed to have the ability to save or destroy the world...), but knowing Kishimoto, EMS will somehow surpass the heavenly eyes...

It also depends on who is using the power/ability as explained by Zetsu. Even if Zetsu's explanation was completely wrong for that specific battle

[wingdarkness]

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

It also depends on who is using the power/ability as explained by Zetsu. Even if Zetsu's explanation was completely wrong for that specific battle

Originally Posted by james

(considering the original Rinnegan user was, more or less, a God who created the entire Ninja world, and his eyes were supposed to have the ability to save or destroy the world...),

Holy $hit, what episode was that again where they kinda explain the Rinnegan? I was probably gone off my 5th green bottle'd beer...i forgot about this...

[james0246]

^I think it was 128...

[Vindi89]

Originally Posted by Kakashi

Is Itachi known for having low chakra reserves now or something? He seemed to have a fair amount even with his illness (even more than Sasuke). Fit and healthy I'd imagine he'd have plenty to deal with Pain.

Using 3 MS Jutsus in a short period of time wore him out in the past (day he inflitrated Konoha). Really the only hope of Itachi against Pain is Genjutsu and I've yet to see Tsukiyomi effect more than one person at a time so good luck with it catching all 6 bodies. Given that Pain can also bring back his bodies somehow, Itachi's efforts will be wasted.

[smoke123]

i guess there are inconsistencies....

i mean kakashi being scared of oro...(remem though he did let out chidori..he was prepared to death..although oro laughed it off...and kakashi remembered his place)

oro being scared of itachi even when he had his arms(it is why he wanted sharingan u know)

if u look at it from that perspective kakashi wudve run like mad the moment he saw itachi...

the thing is...itachi wud never have wanted to kill any konoha individual that was LOYAL to konoha... ie he wudnt have fought kakashi or jiraiya properly...although its odd he gave such a devastating attack to kakashi (never did get that in hindsight)

anyways even if they are akatsuki or whoever...kakashi has not run from a battle that he shud fight even if it is pretty much certain he will lose...the obj of the fight was to figure out more of pains abilities...he did what he cud...]

also i dont think u can PRAISE kakashi for MS...its an ability u get by watching a friend die...

i dont think kakashi cudve beaten naruto in a battle to the death since shippu started...i mean...it was pretty much shown that jiraiya wud lose if naruto activated 4< tails ....

if ure gonna count kakashis sharingan as a power...narutos kyubi chakra is the same thing....both powers given to them

hmm FOR THE POSTS ABOVE...


sharingan genjutsu wud most likely be MORE EFFECTIVE against pein since the same conscious is controlling all the bodies...they are not SEPERATE...
he might be able to CUT the link off and lose control of the body but i guess we will see..

[Starrk]

Originally Posted by AznSoulBoy

I love how people will never be sastified. When the pacing is actually moving on, they say its too fast, when it goes slow they say it is too slow. When the animation is getting better, they say the camera angles are off...Whatever.

When I have salt with my "pork", I prefer not to have too much salt or no salt at all, but rather, just the right amount of salt...


kakashi's death was rushed, not the fight. They could have moved some of the stuff with Tsunade to the next episode... I really wish they gave more of a proper send off to Kakashi. I mean wtf, he's been in the series since like episode 3 and has been in so many fights. Very important char... again I have no problem with either his power or the length of his fight but the way they dealt with his "death" was just not right...