[Manga] Naruto Chapter 568 Discussion

[itachi-san314]

Originally Posted by Undertaker

Problem is DB is inspired by Journey to the West, so what you are saying is that it's a reference of a reference at best?

Anyway, it's not like Kishi hasn't used direct reference from the novel. The Gold, Silver brothers and the items they used are all from Journey to the West, down to exact detail and their effects/powers. The money summon that Third has, his head gear is worn by the Goku in the book as well.

In addition the Hansome Monkey King (美猿王, Bien'ō), Great Sage Equalling Heaven (斉天大聖, Seiten Taisei) are all titles that Sun Wu Kong holds or claims in the Chinese Novel. Also the Water Screen Cave (水簾洞, Suirendō) is where Sun Wu Kong/Sun GoKu ruled before his capture in the novel.

But really what the big deal? Toriyama gave credit of early DB to Journey to the West, why is it that hard to think Kishi is basing 4-tails by using the direct source rather then than derived source?

Besides it's not like Journey to the West is just some random novel, the novel is consider one of the Four Greatest Ancient Chinese Fiction and had huge impact in East Asia, more so than DB if I might add and is on par with The Romance of Three Kingdom, The Dream of the Red Chamber, and Water Margin (Shui Hu Zhuan or SuiKoDen, and yes the RPG series Suikoden is inspired from this)

I'm aware of all this. if you read my exact quote I never made any definitive statement. I just said that what you are saying doesn't mean that it wasn't inspired from db. of course it is inspired from both on some level but db was the first to use the journey to the west references in the anime medium which is waht kishi is doing (may be wrong about it being first, but it came before naruto at least)

[Undertaker]

There is a 26 episode anime series call SF Saiyuki aired back in 1978 which was pretty well known in East Asia. The series is a re-imaging with Sci-Fi twist. If not limited to Japan, China also has animation about the book way back in the 40s.

And I'm also sure there a lot more manga/anime with just passing reference to it. For example Kufei's pactio card artifact from Nagima, Shinchintetsu Jizaikon, is also an reference from the book but no one is saying that it copies from DB, even though Kid Goku had a weapon that has similar ability..

My point is that with this type references and inspirations to classics you usually just give it to the first originated source and be done with it. It also saves on any potential copyright dispute (though in this case both DB and NAruto are own by same company)

For example, no one would argue that 4-tail might be a homage to Goku's (DB) 4 star ball and credit as such, but that is something unique to DB while the names and title used shouldn't be contribute to DB when it is not something that is exclusive to DB.

[itachi-san314]

Originally Posted by Undertaker

There is a 26 episode anime series call SF Saiyuki aired back in 1978 which was pretty well known in East Asia. The series is a re-imaging with Sci-Fi twist. If not limited to Japan, China also has animation about the book way back in the 40s.

And I'm also sure there a lot more manga/anime with just passing reference to it. For example Kufei's pactio card artifact from Nagima, Shinchintetsu Jizaikon, is also an reference from the book but no one is saying that it copies from DB, even though Kid Goku had a weapon that has similar ability..

My point is that with this type references and inspirations to classics you usually just give it to the first originated source and be done with it. It also saves on any potential copyright dispute (though in this case both DB and NAruto are own by same company)

For example, no one would argue that 4-tail might be a homage to Goku's (DB) 4 star ball and credit as such, but that is something unique to DB while the names and title used shouldn't be contribute to DB when it is not something that is exclusive to DB.

good points and thanks for the info. I'm just basing the assumption on the sheer amount of things taken from db in naruto. not just references and character names, but even so far as plot pieces and fights. the naruto pain fight was extraordinarily similar to the goku freeza fight in the way it played out. just replace hinata with kuririn and KM with SS and then of course pain's tech with the dragon balls =) you're basically right though since journey to the west came first, but I can see it both ways.

edit: typos and such

[Undertaker]

True, but I would say lot of those fights are more genre define than specific references though. After all DB isn't the first action/fighting/hot-blood series that JUMP has I mean Kinikuman also has a lot of elements that DB borrowed in the early phase if we are going down that road.

But you're right the Pain fight but personally, ever since the timeskips, I've been finding that Naruto fights has getting more and more boring. The only thing that keep me around has been the main plot progress but even then, it's hard not to think that Kishi is over-extending himself and that the story is not nearly as good as it could have been.

[CoreyPmc1]

Hey guys, normally I just read comments with out posting but I had to post this:

This is exactly what happened in this chapter.

The guy is Madara, the girl is the kyuubi, and the car is kyuubi's power.
(Just in case the embedded version doesn't work)

http://youtu.be/nCKxp2yMa2c?t=42s

[Discerptor]

Originally Posted by itachi-san314

that's funny. I never even heard of that theory. I don't really see much evidence to have suggested that aside form the hair. I hope you would admit that there is much more to work with for the obito theory

edit:the leader's name wasn't nitamo after all

The evidence for the crackpot theory that the Akatsuki leader was Sarutobi Hiruzen was more compelling than either of these ideas tbh.

[itachi-san314]

Originally Posted by Discerptor

The evidence for the crackpot theory that the Akatsuki leader was Sarutobi Hiruzen was more compelling than either of these ideas tbh.

good statement right here... it's just silly, nothing personal but come on... I would actually like to hear this evidence for laughs

[HasuMasu]

Originally Posted by CoreyPmc1

*snip*

I see what you did there.

[Sasheks]

Is there going to be a chapter released this week?

[milan kyuubi]

Originally Posted by Sasheks

Is there going to be a chapter released this week?

No. JUMP is on a break, and it will return around January 11th.

[HasuMasu]

^ That's...quite the bummer.

[CoreyPmc1]

Originally Posted by Detective-san

I see what you did there.

Thanks for getting the humor (I'm glad somebody got it ).

I actually received a negative rep just because somebody didn't understand the joke (even though I basically explained it in the post).

[Mateus]

Any speculations as to how the next chapter will go? Naruto left off with making progress with the Four tails/Son-Goku so maybe he will get some chakra from him?

[Discerptor]

Originally Posted by itachi-san314

good statement right here... it's just silly, nothing personal but come on... I would actually like to hear this evidence for laughs

I'm sorry; apparently the theory wasn't that it was Sarutobi Hiruzen, but rather his son by whom Konohamaru was born. Now, don't say I didn't warn you:

http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=49780

[Mateus]

Originally Posted by Discerptor

I'm sorry; apparently the theory wasn't that it was Sarutobi Hiruzen, but rather his son by whom Konohamaru was born. Now, don't say I didn't warn you:

http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=49780

We still never found out what became of Konohamaru's parents did we?

[itachi-san314]

Originally Posted by Discerptor

I'm sorry; apparently the theory wasn't that it was Sarutobi Hiruzen, but rather his son by whom Konohamaru was born. Now, don't say I didn't warn you:

http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=49780

its not that bad a theory from back then and now that we know the answer it actually did turn out to be 2 of jiraiya's students for pain and konan which is resonant of the obito theory since so many subplots involve student - teacher and student - student relationships.

and like Mateus said, it would be nice to know what happened to konohamaru's parents. im not saying they have anything to do with tobi, just that it raises an entirely different set of questions to which there really isnt much to work with

whats most comical about that thread (to me at least) is the adamant nature of the poster and how he wants to contact kishi about it =)

for my part I obviously like the obito theory but I fully understand that it can turn out not to be him. that doesnt discount the fact that kishi wants it to be a possibility in our minds. and the evidence I sited in the 'who is tobi' thread is certainly more than this konohamaru parents theory had

[Discerptor]

Originally Posted by Mateus

We still never found out what became of Konohamaru's parents did we?

I like to think they were two of the test subjects Orochimaru kidnapped and killed in the name of ninja science.

[White Silver King]

If we're going to find out about anyone's parents I'd like it to be Tsunade's. One of her parents was the child of the First Hokage and the first Jinchuriki of Kurama. I'm surprised he/she wasn't made Hokage.

[HasuMasu]

Originally Posted by White Silver King

If we're going to find out about anyone's parents I'd like it to be Tsunade's. One of her parents was the child of the First Hokage and the first Jinchuriki of Kurama. I'm surprised he/she wasn't made Hokage.

Well when you put it that way it does sound like a plot hole.

[Discerptor]

Originally Posted by White Silver King

If we're going to find out about anyone's parents I'd like it to be Tsunade's. One of her parents was the child of the First Hokage and the first Jinchuriki of Kurama. I'm surprised he/she wasn't made Hokage.

What? Uzumaki Mito was Senju Hashirama's wife, not his daughter.

EDIT: Never mind, I completely misread the meaning in your sentence because it could be taken two ways. "One of her parents was the child of both the First Hokage and the First Jinchuriki of Kurama" would have been clearer.