To Aru Majutsu no Index Light Novel Discussion (Archives)

[SuzushinaYuriko]

Originally Posted by Shinji103

"Once in a while?" She appears almost every episode.
You're getting a little off point; yes the series is named after her, but that doesn't affect how often Mikoto should appear. They're not mutually exclusive. Considering how they're the main two rivals for Touma if anything they would be mutually inclusive.
If the author wanted to use Mikoto to draw in readers, the last thing he would do is keep her out. Those two things are mutually exclusive.
You seem to be misunderstanding me (although my exact wording of one or two specific sentences probably contributed to that); I'm not saying Mikoto should appear in every arc, I'm saying don't make forced and dumb reasons for keeping her out of the action when she does appear.
There's a difference between Toaru Index and Toaru Railgun; Touma just doesn't appear much at all in Railgun, while in Index, Mikoto keeps appearing but gets kept out of the action with forced reasoning. Also, when Touma does appear in Railgun and there's action happening or about to happen, he gets in on it. (sometimes he's even the source of the action) Mikoto doesn't get much of any action at all in Index

1. Two main rivals for Touma? Are you forgetting all of the other girls in his harem who actually have better chances than those two because Touma simply doesn't see them that way?
2. Where is it stated that the author only uses Mikoto to draw in readers? I feel like you're insulting the series by saying that. That might not be your intention, but that's what it sounds like to me.
3. Yes, Mikoto doesn't get much action in Index. And that's exactly why Railgun exists. I didn't see Touma appearing when she faced Kiyama, AIM Burst, Skill-Out, or Telestina, did you? And even when Touma appeared, she got a full battle scene with him. I really don't know why you're complaining. If you want her to be involved with magic, you do realize that her reckless nature would most likely get her killed (easily) by the superpowers of the magic side, right? Even though she's the third ranked Level 5, there's no way she could stand a chance against people who give even Accelerator a hard time.

[bizzi]

Originally Posted by Shinji103

Why? Because if Kamachi had kept her there, she would have been there with Touma to confront Sherry. Plot hole.

**jizz in my pants**

You're my god.

@I_am_Kami: We never saw that "warmachine". Not even once. That would've been awesome.

**changing pants**

The Indexverse makes me want to write my own kind of LN (It's not a joke).
A story in which the characters do the right things.
A story in which Mikoto would've fought Sherry without standing outside with Index and not following her when she got away (I got more examples ).
A story without that damn f****** useless boobish fanservice.
True fanservice is awesomeness. True fanservice is a GLANCE between Touma and Accel at the end of ep 18. True fanservice is when the author serves the fan giving him what he's been longing for so long while reading, or watching. (translation: no *$#@& forced crowd )
The Indexverse is damn well made. But it has flaws, Kamachi isn't perfect.
Still, I love this series.

[OK I know this has nothing to do with the sub-topic {Misaka Mikoto} but I wanted to share it ]

[Shinji103]

Originally Posted by yukirosuzuka

1. Two main rivals for Touma? Are you forgetting all of the other girls in his harem who actually have better chances than those two because Touma simply doesn't see them that way?
2. Where is it stated that the author only uses Mikoto to draw in readers? I feel like you're insulting the series by saying that. That might not be your intention, but that's what it sounds like to me.
3. Yes, Mikoto doesn't get much action in Index. And that's exactly why Railgun exists. I didn't see Touma appearing when she faced Kiyama, AIM Burst, Skill-Out, or Telestina, did you? And even when Touma appeared, she got a full battle scene with him. I really don't know why you're complaining. If you want her to be involved with magic, you do realize that her reckless nature would most likely get her killed (easily) by the superpowers of the magic side, right?

1. No, you're forgetting that I said main. There are other girls, but Index and Mikoto lead the pack. There's a reason why they're considered to be more important according to cast listings and character listsings and such. (refer back to the last few posts on this subject in the episode 19 thread between me and Chaos2Frozen before we moved)
Touma doesn't see any of them "that way," thus you're point is irrelevant. But that's exactly why none of the other girls are ahead of Index or Mikoto.
2. Erm, you really, really need to understand the context, i.e., read the posts I'm replying to, if you're going to address my posts responding to others; I am not saying that. The guy I was responding to is.
3. Another example of missing the point here. (you guys do a lot of that )
Touma was never there when Kiyama or Skill-Out or Telestina happened. Mikoto did appear when Sherry and other villains attacked. Yet while the former does contribute to any fight or incident happening around his appearance, the latter doesn't. And due to big plot holes.
And you're officially joined the people who underestimate Mikoto. Why do people think she's so weak? If it's because she doesn't have IB (a rather poor reason for considering her to be weak), then every single other character besides Touma has the same problem. Yet they help him out when they're around.

[SuzushinaYuriko]

Originally Posted by bizzi

The Indexverse makes me want to write my own kind of LN (It's not a joke).
A story in which the characters do the right things.
A story in which Mikoto would've fought Sherry without standing outside with Index and not following her when she got away (I got more examples ).
A story without that damn f****** useless boobish fanservice.
True fanservice is awesomeness. True fanservice is a GLANCE between Touma and Accel at the end of ep 18. True fanservice is when the author serves the fan giving him what he's been longing for so long while reading, or watching. (translation: no *$#@& forced crowd )
The Indexverse is damn well made. But it has flaws, Kamachi isn't perfect.
Still, I love this series.

[OK I know this has nothing to do with the sub-topic {Misaka Mikoto} but I wanted to share it ]

1. Your perception of "the characters doing the right things" isn't necessarily what everyone else wants.
2. No.
3. Just because you don't like the fanservice doesn't mean that other people don't.
4. The mall wouldn't be able to withstand Touma vs. Accelerator round 2. Over the course of the series, Accelerator has seen Touma twice and they have met again in Russia.

And you're officially joined the people who underestimate Mikoto. Why do people think she's so weak? If it's because she doesn't have IB (a rather poor reason for considering her to be weak), then every single other character besides Touma has the same problem. Yet they help him out when they're around to help.

Compared to the superpowers of the magic side, she IS weak. Can she stand a chance against people like God's Right Seat or Ollerus? No, she can't. And it's not like she doesn't help him at all - she beats up the Hound Dogs in this arc and in the Remnant arc she made a staircase for Touma to jump up and save Kuroko. It's a situational thing, really, which not only applies to her but to other characters as well. For example, Kanzaki only fought with Touma once in volume 16 from what I can remember. It just so happens that Touma is a magic side protagonist, and people like Tsuchimikado and the Amakusa Catholics are the ones that are most helpful to him in situations he gets involved in.

[bizzi]

Originally Posted by MonkeyDude

She does, but not when it comes to the world Touma lives in. She has her own gaiden that allows her to be the hero of her own little bubble...shouldn't that be enough for fans?

Come on, please. This is irrelevant. Stop trolling.

Originally Posted by MonkeyDude

still Index though so I doubt it.

Index is not just about Index. The Indexverse (which bears a wrong name) is an awesome mix of awesome characters within an awesome plot. The Three Heroes are far more important than Index herself. This is just an example. Don't see it as "Touma + Index" but as "many characters that all have more or less equal `plot-potential`"

[MonkeyDude]

Originally Posted by Shinji103

So the only reason a powerful character should get action is if they're broken powerful? Huh? This whole part reaks of "makes no sense."

No I'm saying that only 'broken' characters should get the spotlight (antagonist typically) and the appropriate hero to take them out...as in someone who can actually do something. You keep asking for Mikoto to be involved in fights Touma has been in or at least involved in general. There are only a handful of instances she could be somewhat useful, but most of the time she's dead weight. That's just how the story works...she's powerful, but not 'broken' powerful.

Except you're not considering that Mikoto would try to help regardless, and furthermore she wouldn't be going into the fight knowing about Divine Punishment in the first place. You're relying entirely too much on out-of-series and "calling the score after the game is over" reasons.

It's been awhile since I read v13, but did Touma know about Divine Punishment before heading into battle? Not that it matters since know about it or not, activate the parameters for DP and you're out cold. And since we all know how emotional Mikoto can be...it shouldn't be that hard. Though let's say that she somehow bypasses DP, then yeah I agree that this is a fight Mikoto can actually take part in. My money is still on Vento if we compare their battle abilities and her wanton disregard for public safety.

Well she's not a Level 0 and is instead a powerful Level 5, so......
And yet characters like Itsuwa and Kaori, characters without IB, get to help him out in fights. It makes no sense why Mikoto is different.

That's not the point I was trying to make AND THIS IS A LINE MIKOTO SAID HERSELF so regardless, she'll run straight into a battle like an idiot Level0/5. Because Itsuwa and Kaori are characters Touma consider to be COMRADES, while Mikoto is a character he considers to be someone that needs to be protected. They are professional magicians and hell one is a Saint that far exceeds Mikoto's battle capabilities and only appears in fights that she barely scraped by...they aren't some middle school girl that relies solely on her esper capabilities.

You're also missing the point here.....
Why does everybody keep fixating on Railgun? I doubt Touma and Mikoto are thinking about how Mikoto has her own sidestory......
It's horrid writing that's keeping her out of action that's happening right next to her. Need to keep her from running into Sherry Cromwell? Have Touma and Kuorko get mixed up priorities and leave the defenseless girl in harm's way while getting the Level 5 out. Want to keep them away again? Have Sphinx suddenly run away for no reason to seperate Mikoto from Index. Plot holes/forced
reasoning. And the list only gets worse later in the series.

I think you're the one missing the point here. It's horrid writing to keep including her in the story when she serves no real purpose besides fanservice. She can only fight mooks ffs and she's still getting so many pages just to appeal to the fans. She's not like Itsuwa (who is really at mook level - as much as I like her) who possesses a move capable of defeating someone like Acqua. She's just an electromaster...powerful in its own right, rather weak in the overall Toaruverse.

You also have to understand not only Touma, but Kuroko. She acknowledges her onee-sama's capabilities, but she also doesn't want to put herself in harm's way. She made the decision to teleport her out and it fits within her characterization.

You have a point about Sphinx, but hey this is a Magic-side deal and Science-side characters typically don't get involved. That's just how the story works till WW3 and you'll just have to accept that.

Honestly this is just fanwank for more Mikoto...

[Miraluka]

Originally Posted by Shinji103

Okay, so you already know I'm not saying she should be in every arc, but you're still saying that's my point?
If that's teasing, then Stiyl or Kaori or Itsuwa only appearing in certain arcs is the same thing.

I'm playing with the views, then under the same logic we will find how contradictory is keeping Index character away from the incidents related to magic in Index series.

Err, "let's work together" is "teamwork," the basis of any even remotely effective strategy/mindset. If you think a teamwork mindset is gay, then.........well, you're not thinking right.

Keep in mind that you are talking about a character that always does everything on her own without telling anyone. You know that even in the last novels she was there alone in Russia, the "teamwork" doesn't seem to be in her dictionary.

Originally Posted by Shinji103

Amusingly enough others like Wilfriback say she's not powerful enough, and would just get killed. Sounds like you and guys like him are in conflict on reasoning. She can't be both too strong and too weak. (I don't think she's either, of course).

Killed or not (she never got any injure and never will have one), its a matter of the knowledge she lacks, and the knowledge in the magic side is power. If she doesn't has it she won't be of use if the skill for the matter isn't patent.
Then, were is the conflict?

It's horrid writing that's keeping her out of action that's happening right next to her.

Etzali was an assasin send to kill her but never noticed she was targeted to be killed, oh wait, the guy fell in love with her. Isn't convenient?
Also, even average and nameless magicians know how to use spells like Opila to keep people away in their fights, how she can be the exception?

Have Sphinx suddenly run away for no reason to seperate Mikoto from Index.

It wasn't told already that animals has more developed sense of danger unlike humans, it was mentioned even in the novels. And... It wasn't mentioned that animals are afraid of her because of her electromagnetic field?

And you're officially joined the people who underestimate Mikoto. Why do people think she's so weak? If it's because she doesn't have IB (a rather poor reason for considering her to be weak), then every single other character besides Touma has the same problem. Yet they help him out when they're around.

If you are labeling people, then, wouldn't you be in the people who overestimates her?
If there are other characters that help him is because they can they are in the same world unlike Mikoto, Accelerator, Shiage, etc.

[bizzi]

Originally Posted by yukirosuzuka

1. Your perception of "the characters doing the right things" isn't necessarily what everyone else wants.
2. No.
3. Just because you don't like the fanservice doesn't mean that other people don't.
4. The mall wouldn't be able to withstand Touma vs. Accelerator round 2. Over the course of the series, Accelerator has seen Touma twice and they have met again in Russia.

1. It's not relative. It's not about what you and/or I want. It's about avoiding forced plot-holes. Simply. Making your own story is another business

2. "No" ? What does that mean? More details? You know that Kuroko not saving Hyouka and Sphinx getting away from Index's hands is forced stuff. (about Hyouka, remember that ALL of Kuroko/Mikoto/Touma should have considered her as a simple civilian). I just watched that scene again:

Spoiler for ridiculous plothole:

See? Touma took the right decision, but Kuroko finally did the dumbest thing ever: leaving a simple civilian. And she didn't even come back to teleport her.
This plothole (I love this word) is soo obvious that denying it would be trolling. Really.

3. You're not watching Index for the boobs, if you want some porn/hentai, you know what to do. This kind of fanservice is only there to bring along more "fans". I'd call it dickservice (even though I don't find it exciting at all)

4. OK for Russia, but the mall? The plot doesn't really care about that kind of thing. Besides, that glance wouldn't have necessarily turned into a fight. Very unlikely.
Accelerator watching Touma with a perplexed face (admiration, whatever), saying "tch, shithead... come, damn brat", and then walking away while thinking about his past would have been a possible scenario. I'm sure people can find many others.

[I_am_Kami]

k lets consider the points in the story shinji is talking about

Sherry Cromwell arc- A) she left with index conveniently when the fight started.
Well if we hadn't done that then we wouldn't have known that Kazakiri was not human and some phenomenon made of AIM

B) she is left behind when index goes to fight golem by coincedence.

well for one like Wilfriback said she didn't chase after since the cat would run away and it also gave index a chance to finally fight in the series.

AC invasion- A) fends off Hound Dogs.

thats pretty much it right there and this time she told them to go.

Aqcua of the back- Don't need to say much since aqua himself would just kill her. Doesn't even need powers, his brute strength alon make him the arnold swarchznagger of the series. The scene where she realizexe her feelings is enough

Russia- Can't say much since she did alot against the Russian army but against Fiamma by chance. Oh boy she'd die. She couldn't save touma cuz tremors were a bother.

@bizzi

Go make a fanfic.

EDIT:

1)As i just told shinji avoiding the purpose of Kazakiri is an even bigger plot hole.
2)Its not exactly forced when the story already mentions she's not good with animals.
3)Sometimes fanservice is funny instead of soft hentai and in this series it aint a problem since its not all the time.
4)We don't know what would have happened. Lots of people thought it'd be cool but its not the right "feeling". Something like that should happen when an enemy wants to scare someone or you someone wants to shock u letting u know they are there and run away. Though maybe it could've been both have shock but looses the other in the crowd,then again it wouldn't make sense since they'd try to find the other.

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by Marcus H.

> It is not canon.

...Hai ?

Originally Posted by Marcus H.

> Even as a Level 5 Esper, she is incapable of fighting against the likes of any magician.

The hell?

Seriously guys, serious. I can swallow alot of the weird out opinions and conceptions that you guys have, but this has got to stop, God's Right Seat is one thing, but to reduce Mikoto to a level below any magicians is plain stupid.

[bizzi]

Originally Posted by I_am_Kami

it also gave index a chance to finally fight in the series.

Interesting point here.

Originally Posted by I_am_Kami

@bizzi

Go make a fanfic.

Well, actually I'm planning to start my own "series". I'm putting quotes because I don't think it's going to be as popular as Index
Besides I'm not skilled enough in English to write a fanfic (OK I seem fluent, but writing stories requires perfect language skills)
I ain't gonna write it in French, huh?

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by bizzi

Besides I'm not skilled enough in English to write a fanfic (OK I seem fluent, but writing stories requires perfect language skills)

You're not writing a novel, you're writing a fanfiction- 'seemingly fluent' is as good as anyone would expect.

[bizzi]

Originally Posted by I_am_Kami

EDIT:

1)As i just told shinji avoiding the purpose of Kazakiri is an even bigger plot hole.
2)Its not exactly forced when the story already mentions she's not good with animals.
3)Sometimes fanservice is funny instead of soft hentai and in this series it aint a problem since its not all the time.
4)We don't know what would have happened. Lots of people thought it'd be cool but its not the right "feeling". Something like that should happen when an enemy wants to scare someone or you someone wants to shock u letting u know they are there and run away. Though maybe it could've been both have shock but looses the other in the crowd,then again it wouldn't make sense since they'd try to find the other.

2) I'm mostly talking about Kuroko here
3) I'm OK with this, but the show emphasizes on "non soft" hentai quite often..
4) Well, it's a fiction, anything could've happened. I was mainly saying that if Kamachi had managed to pull off a scene with that glance, but still making sense, then that would've been true fanservice

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

You're not writing a novel, you're writing a fanfiction- 'seemingly fluent' is as good as anyone would expect.

Guess you're right... I'm too perfectionist

[SuzushinaYuriko]

1. It's not relative. It's not about what you and/or I want. It's about avoiding forced plot-holes. Simply. Making your own story is another business
2. "No" ? What does that mean? More details? You know that Kuroko not saving Hyouka and Sphinx getting away from Index's hands is forced stuff. (about Hyouka, remember that ALL of Kuroko/Mikoto/Touma should have considered her as a simple civilian). See? Touma took the right decision, but Kuroko finally did the dumbest thing ever: leaving a simple civilian. And she didn't even come back to teleport her.
This plothole (I love this word) is soo obvious that denying it would be trolling. Really.

Originally Posted by MonkeyDude

You also have to understand not only Touma, but Kuroko. She acknowledges her onee-sama's capabilities, but she also doesn't want to put herself in harm's way. She made the decision to teleport her out and it fits within her characterization.

Originally Posted by Wilfriback

It wasn't told already that animals has more developed sense of danger unlike humans, it was mentioned even in the novels. And... It wasn't mentioned that animals are afraid of her because of her electromagnetic field?

And it was never mentioned that Kuroko never came back to teleport them. Touma ran off to fight Sherry and Hyouka followed him so of course Kuroko wouldn't know where they went. Even if she did search for them, she wouldn't even imagine that both of them would step right into the danger zone.

Mikoto's attacks may be able to destroy Ellis, but Sherry can just reconstruct it. In the first place, Sherry has no reason to fight Mikoto. Her targets are either Hyouka or Index, and she's not going to spend time fighting some middle school kid when she has more important things to do.

3. You're not watching Index for the boobs, if you want some porn/hentai, you know what to do. This kind of fanservice is only there to bring along more "fans". I'd call it dickservice (even though I don't find it exciting at all)

And like I said, just because you don't enjoy the fanservice, it doesn't mean other people don't. Fanservice is common these days in just about every other anime and light novel series, so I don't see what you're complaining about. It doesn't appear when things get serious, just in the lighthearted comedy moments. If you don't like it, you can always just skip it. Index has had fanservice from the very beginning, so it's about time you accept it and move on.

4. OK for Russia, but the mall? The plot doesn't really care about that kind of thing. Besides, that glance wouldn't have necessarily turned into a fight. Very unlikely.
Accelerator watching Touma with a perplexed face (admiration, whatever), saying "tch, shithead... come, damn brat", and then walking away while thinking about his past would have been a possible scenario. I'm sure people could find many others.

Except in the few times Accelerator has encountered Touma, he's reacted violently. He clearly wants to beat up Touma again.

If the author doesn't want Accelerator and Touma to meet again, then that's what s/he's planned for the story. If they had met again in volume 12, that would have taken away the impact of Accelerator attacking Touma in the Russia arc. I think it's best if the author isn't swayed by the fanbase too much, as that would ruin the story.

Not that I don't want to see Accel and Touma get along, but just saying.

EDIT: You know what, can we just stop with this bashing already? Reading and writing all of this is seriously giving me a headache. Let's just accept each other's opinions and stop.

[I_am_Kami]

Originally Posted by yukirosuzuka

Except in the few times Accelerator has encountered Touma, he's reacted violently. He clearly wants to beat up Touma again.

If the author doesn't want Accelerator and Touma to meet again, then that's what s/he's planned for the story. If they had met again in volume 12, that would have taken away the impact of Accelerator attacking Touma in the Russia arc. I think it's best if the author isn't swayed by the fanbase too much, as that would ruin the story.

Not that I don't want to see Accel and Touma get along, but just saying.

Naw he was just pissed at those moments. Why kill the guy u wanna be like?


Oh my, I just checked the top posts in this thread and im in the top 5.

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by bizzi

Guess you're right... I'm too perfectionist

There's nothng wrong with that either, I'm just sayin don't let it get in the way of your writing- trust me, been down that road before where you find that everyone else have better grammar than you...

Backtracking alittle...

Originally Posted by I_am_Kami

I think its more that people want 2 strong characters instead of lets work together. Im sorry but lets work together is one of those gay quotes in stories. Anyway that why touma and mikoto go together Cool guy+cool girl=cool couple.

Now excuse me while i try to go get F'd up in the park.

Originally Posted by Shinji103

Err, "let's work together" is "teamwork," the basis of any even remotely effective strategy/mindset. If you think a teamwork mindset is gay, then.........well, you're not thinking right.

My statement was in regards to having a more involved love interest. I said that people tend to prefer couples that work together side by side, rather than to have one in front of the other protecting them.

That said Teamwork in Toaru is very important, alot of the boss characters require teamwork to take down, whether direct or indirect.

Touma couldn't defeat Pendex without Kanzaki and Stiyl to draw fire.
Touma couldn't survive Accelerator without Mikoto and her Imoutos.
Touma couldn't really fight off 250 battle nuns without Amakusa.
Touma couldn't defeat Vento without Fuse=Kazakiri wearing her down.
Amakusa couldn't defeat Aqua without Touma.
Necessarius couldn't defeat the Princess without Touma.
Shiage couldn't take down the Dark matter guys without Mugno.
Touma couldn't defeat Fiamma if the whole world didn't work together.

[Miraluka]

Originally Posted by yukirosuzuka

EDIT: You know what, can we just stop with this bashing already? Reading and writing all of this is seriously giving me a headache. Let's just accept each other's opinions and stop.

Awww but, I want to keep Index/Railgun thread active (my very real reason to keep replying here), this is the current way to do so.
Its interesting spend my free time reading and exchanging opinions and as far as I know there are not fights or bashing or troll .

[bizzi]

about Kuroko: she still left a civilian. Without that plothole, she would've done her job and saved Hyouka instead of Mikoto.

Originally Posted by yukirosuzuka

Mikoto's attacks may be able to destroy Ellis, but Sherry can just reconstruct it. In the first place, Sherry has no reason to fight Mikoto. Her targets are either Hyouka or Index, and she's not going to spend time fighting some middle school kid when she has more important things to do.

Yeah but Mikoto would have a reason to fight Sherry.

Originally Posted by yukirosuzuka

And like I said, just because you don't enjoy the fanservice, it doesn't mean other people don't. Fanservice is common these days in just about every other anime and light novel series, so I don't see what you're complaining about. It doesn't appear when things get serious, just in the lighthearted comedy moments. If you don't like it, you can always just skip it. Index has had fanservice from the very beginning, so it's about time you accept it and move on.

There's clearly much more in S2 than in S1, you know it.

About Accel & Touma: well, considering what Kamachi decided after that, I can't really say anything... but it doesn't change the fact that the lack of the awaited glance was a bit forced... It's still a pain in the ass
Btw, I'd prefer to make the obvious happen, even if that means fixing my fiction later, so that no plotholes remain

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by Wilfriback

Awww but, I want to keep Index/Railgun thread active (my very real reason to keep replying here), this is the current way to do so.
Its interesting spend my free time reading and exchanging opinions and as far as I know there are not fights or bashing or troll .

I know that, that's why I didn't serious try to stop it once I've seen your intention.

But personally? I would prefer if you guys use your mental Prowlness to discuss theories and ways to work with the Science and Magic of toaruverse.

But I guess you can't choose your solutions.

P.S - Woot, 8000 mark!

[Marcus H.]

I'm busy watching over the Toaru Majutsu no Index Wiki to participate. (Even deleted my last post.)

Discussions like these are a big headache.