2006-07-24, 20:13 | Link #81 | |||
Retweet Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: ニュー・オーリンズ、LA
|
Quote:
This is what we can agree on..I mean I'm not coming out of the woodworx, you know my feelings on Shinn and have known for some time now...My gripe is if you were gonna underdevlop the hell outta the character (via personal preference or just as a byproduct of deadlines), you betray everyone that had hopes for or supported the character by advancing his development in a way that betrays the core of his character that is presented...This shouldn't be so odd for you to understand and the fact that Shinn's turnabout is canon is meaningless...Alot of things that are canon suck-a$$ or are not presented well...Since you never really did support the character it's easy to see why you don't quite get where I am coming from( I mean you get what I am saying but not enuff to support it)...But for the life of me I still can't understand how one could accept his turnabout and not feel a supreme weirdness for what happens in his final development (despite their like or hate)... Quote:
Quote:
(Once again ignores the meaningless baiting of the post before mines for an actual strong discussion...The anger validates all my points...Thanks)
__________________
|
|||
2006-07-24, 20:22 | Link #82 |
Zechs, pilot of Tallgeese
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota.
|
Well my opinion is that Shinn does need to mature. Now I don't think that just putting him on Athrun and Kira's team is the right way to do it. I think he should be a loner that fights for his goals. If his and Kira's goals are the same then I think it would be best that Shinn and Kira take different paths to get what they want. Shinn might not to do things that Lacus way. If he is gonna be a good guy then let him be a loner that fights for justice. He doesn't need to be with Kira and Athrun to mature.
Last edited by grandmaster192; 2006-07-24 at 20:35. |
2006-07-24, 20:25 | Link #83 |
Retweet Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: ニュー・オーリンズ、LA
|
Don't worry Shining Greatness I'm not falling for it this time around..I think it's important for this discussion to have merits from both sides of the fence so i would appreciate it if you deleted that statement as not to encourage this and tell me if you have an opinion on my analysis..You seem to be a Shinn-supporter so I would really love to hear it...Don't be afraid to say what you truley feel...
__________________
|
2006-07-24, 20:37 | Link #84 | |
Zechs, pilot of Tallgeese
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota.
|
Quote:
|
|
2006-07-24, 20:55 | Link #85 |
Count of Monte Dorifto
|
As an average viewer (as in, I'm an audience who just watches the show just for the sake, not really to professionally analyse the plot, etc. etc.) in the audience, I actually kinda liked what Shinn was in the show. He was the typical berserker, you gotta love it when he screams "KONNNNNOOOO!!!!" and begins the RAWR CHARGE STAB with the Arondight or boomerang toss, whatever, plus the wings of light thing that Destiny has kinda matches his berseker shit thing because it makes you think about his fiery rage or anger, etc.
That power-up thing in Shining's avatar is sooo Shinn. You won't see Kira or Athrun cut sick like that because they're supposedly more mature. I also liked how he got sliced by Athrun - Shinn kinda lost, but he got sliced up in a pretty cool way. It's also pretty cool how he always tries to crush something with the palm cannon, but fails sometimes and its so fun to watch. It's really entertaining to watch his "fuck that, eat this!" fighting style in the show. He's like a GS Yzak, but hyped up. Off the battlefield, he was a bit of an emo kid, blindly following orders of some sly chairman, which was also a change from the typical 'hero who realizes his place and does what is right', etc. His stubborness, rage and complaints were somehow entertaining and there was Kira and Athrun to put him in his place, so it balances out the show, kinda. This sold right to me into buying 1/100 scale GSD model kits. |
2006-07-24, 21:32 | Link #86 | |
Junior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
|
Quote:
Anyways, I think that with the way things happened in GSD and all the anguish that Shinn suffered he turned into fighting to relieve himself. But the thing is he wasn't able to do so. He tried to help his sister but all it did was left him alive while his family died. Then he joined ZAFT but the war ended, and when he was getting used to the idea of peace the theft at Armory 1 and the fall of Junius 7 happened. And at that same time Cagalli showed up which refueled the feelings he had kept. Next he tried to save Stellar but it failed and when he tries to avenge her his satisfaction was tainted by Athrun's unexpected reaction and later by the appearance of the new Freedom. And then there's the case with Athrun's betrayal, the "death of Meyrin", and Athrun's return as well along with Freedom. I actually believe that even though he lost some respect for Athrun in the course of GSD, he still had some left. After all, Rey was just an ordinary acquaintance and Dullindal was nothing more than an authority figure to him, at least in the beginning. He respect them too but he didn't see them as the sufficiently skilled hero of the last war who stayed to try breaking Junius 7 further after they were ordered to retreat, in other words they didn't quite have the same impact on him as Athrun did. Shinn probably started to want to be more like Athrun. So the fact that Athrun seemed to not understand him irks Shinn more than anything else. And this sort of built up to the point that in the last battle he was so enraged that he almost killed Lunamaria, the person in whom he started to find some comfort. And then Shinn cracked. The higher you climb the longer the fall. And this is also why I can see him turning around after that point. He was so exhausted psychologically after that battle he started having vision, and when he came around he saw his world collapsing around him and he had little will left to fight. So when Athrun offered Infinite Justice's hand he accepted it. And later on, he was more receptive of Athrun and Kira's offer. Well, that's just how I see it. And I figured something a little similar happening with Rey only more easily because he hides his feelings most of the time and it wasn't even his true feelings. But this is getting off topic. |
|
2006-07-24, 21:47 | Link #87 | ||
Retweet Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: ニュー・オーリンズ、LA
|
Quote:
Quote:
__________________
Last edited by wingdarkness; 2006-07-24 at 22:04. Reason: monstert's response |
||
2006-07-24, 21:53 | Link #88 | |||||||||||||
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Age: 40
|
(I think) You know I'm a die hard Cagalli fan... but I have mentioned this before I also adore Shinn. In fact he's my fav. male character in GSD now and he's rivaling with Cagalli for the top spot so that says a lot
Quote:
Quote:
Yes, Shinn's (occassionally) prejudice, and he has his pride. But even he had doubts of Dully's destiny plan. He is not a dumb kid, he DOES think. He's probably a smart kid if you ask my opinion. He did graduate 2nd (and He READS! as a leisure! How many guys read nowadays ) He just asks the wrong person for his opinion (Rey). So is it really that impossible for him to realize after the 2nd war ended that Dully was using him afterall? Is it really impossible for him to try to sort out his feelings once peace has come and he's not busy trying to strive for power (in the academy) Shinn was manipulated once. But he doesn't have to forever hold the those belief for the rest of his life. Cagalli was manipulated once too. That doesn't mean she has to stay manipulated forever. And if you ask me Cagalli is equally stubborn. Quote:
But I do think that after being on Eternal to Orb and after a good few months of thinking in peace, the Shinn in Final Plus "can" happen. Quote:
Quote:
Why else do you think Rey doesn't like Luna getting too close and comfort Shinn? Because when Shinn cease to hate, when he stops being the hurt lost orphant with power and talent beyound his own realization, Dully might not be able to control him, just like he lost control of Athrun when Athrun cease to be the lost soldier looking for direction to the path of justice. Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Honestly Shinn would have turn out so different hand Heine be his mentor instead he got stuck with Athrun (who have no idea what he's doing in the war either). Quote:
Quote:
I mean, sure, Shinn always give 110% to do with he thinks is right, but when he realize he had do something wrong, he would give just as much effort to correct it. This is shown when in his scene with Stella when he realized that yelling at her had pushed her into panic mode (not realizing he said her block word), and he use just as much effort to correct that and comfort her. He also isn't someone who would never give in his way. Just look at when he told Luna that she shouldn't be the decoy (I think?) and Luna said it was equally dangerous for them, so it doesn't matter. Shinn can be convinced and can change his mind. Like all men, you just need to say convince them the right way Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
It wasn't like he consciously made a choice to let himself submerge in anger so he can become stronger... if he had consciously choose to trade eternal anger for more power (like Darth Fater did) than I agree with you and we'll worship this dark hero together. But all through GSD, he was reacting to this emotion, letting it drive his action. Sometimes it benefit him, sometimes it hampers him. He doesn't really understand what it's doing to him. All I care is that Shinn realize what he is doing... and imo when he does, he'll see that the world he hoped for... wasn't that far from the one Kira and Athrun had hoped for. |
|||||||||||||
2006-07-24, 22:15 | Link #90 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Age: 40
|
Quote:
sure I always enjoy reading your post |
|
2006-07-24, 22:36 | Link #92 | |
Count of Monte Dorifto
|
Quote:
He's not really as popular as the others because he's a new main character. He's pretty much an all rounder in the game and he seems like the most immature as well. Kira = Megaman X (the blue coloured, long range beam spammer who doesnt trust the 'new guy' and is the 'real' main character and has the strongest main character armor) Athrun = Zero (Megaman's best friend. He's RED, ffs. And what's more, he's a melee based fighter too, and he's basically who introduces Megaman to him and convinces Megaman to give him a chance) |
|
2006-07-24, 22:39 | Link #93 | |
Zechs, pilot of Tallgeese
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota.
|
Quote:
|
|
2006-07-24, 22:45 | Link #95 | |
Count of Monte Dorifto
|
Quote:
Zero has Athrun/Justice written all over him. The red close combat melee fighter that looks like a girl. That's just so Athrun/Justice. EDIT: Zero also has a habit of self-destructing/sacrificing self throughout Megaman series |
|
2006-07-24, 22:47 | Link #96 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
|
HEllo all. I have a feeling this thread may erupt into a flame war soon. but before than im gonna post my opinions on it.
To me destiny sucked period. Reasonings have been expressed hundreds of times. when a show give you feelings of frustration and anger you know its not a good show to watch. Unlike seed i stopped watching destiny as it was approaching a close. thats how bad it was. seed had me pumped to the end. As for shinn. His character was betrayed. He was a guy who was lied to (by neo). involved in a dispute between people he barely knew (kira and athrun) and is constantly the brunt of fans becasue he listens to rey and durrandel who happen to be THE ONLY voice of reason speaking to him. Does anyone say anything else to him. (ill get to athrun in a minute) NO. so how else did you expect him to act. I personally felt that final plus was a disgrace because it literally was a message from fukuda that said. DOnt mess with kira or lacus or you get woned kind of vibe. shinn doesnt even get to be his own character anymore. Let me ask you thins. where wwere the conversations between shinn and cagali. you would think he would have a few things to say to her about some of the stuff she did in destiny wouldnt you say!? I saw none of that in final plus. What about shinn an NEO. YOu know the guy who lied to his face about keeping stellar safe, who pretty much tried to destroy minerva, and pretty much succeded in the last episodes when he switched to the archangel side. where was he? why would he even shake hands with kira. i mean this guy he doesnt know, interfered in battles, killed someone he tried to protect and is basically resposble fopr most of shinns troubles. I would prefer if in te special edition that fukuda Have shinn just walk away. If your not gonna develop a character then let him stay that way. As for athrun. heck he didnt deserve any of the victories in the later half of the series. you heard me. he just showed that if your not gonna listen to half baked logic than might equals right. Athrun is a veteran. he has experience he had all the tools he needed to help shinn early on yet for some reason all he did was act like he was on a separt=ate world on the minerva and mope around. he never aked shinn. Hey did you know that my mom died as well and my dad was shot in front of me?. DO you know the connection that could have opened. simple words and yet athrun cant say squat. He blew his chance and he expected shinn to listen to him when he pretty much wasperforming an act of treachery. hell he didnt ask shinn why the hell he was sudenly after freedom. he didnt even try he gave up wayyy to easily. and on that gouf incident. who doyou think shinn would trust more. his best friend or someone who cant form a cohesive argument and who is right now doing something wrong. cmon. The point is if eel shinn should get a better ending in which he walks away and in the third series or mvie becames a merc and then given him the character development he deserves. And it might happen if the special edition is what fukuda intended. remember special editions are canon (prof look at how mwu survived) |
2006-07-24, 22:54 | Link #97 |
~Night of Gales~
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
|
One reason Shinn absolutely sucks dick in his character development in the manner that he was hinted to go through, not the one we got where he was technically Anakin Skywalker Mk.II, only disregarding the fact that he WASN'T CHARACTERISTICALLY DEVELOPED TO BE ONE imo is easily due to Athrun. I've hated Athrun since SEED, and GSD just helps to reinforce that hate. Putting aside his half-assed convictions in doing stuff, his horrible social tendecies just slices the cake on what he should've shown Shinn on, but rather we got an emo Athrun. Simply put, everything that happened in the episode where Shinn got smacked, Shinn talked with Athrun, etc etc etc.
The damn flaw in Shinn existed since early on. And it stayed the same. Had they really wanted Shinn to stay the sob he is at Phase 49, they should've made Shinn more flawed, but no, what we got instead was a Shinn trapped in a time chamber, static and immobile. There's nothing wrong with a flawed character staying as one, but it is one when you develop him in a manner that he'll lose the flaw, he keeps it only to stay the same thing he is until the last episode. One of my ultimate beliefs in media is that whatever one does with the plot, CHARACTERS cannot be rushed and must be progressed with a proper pace. Athrun had a proper pace in his character, even if it made him more of a pussy. Shinn doesn't have that priveledge. I don't share wd's belief that $hinn need$ to $tay the immature dickhead angst-teen, because I can see how his character is developed in the manner where while the execution is weak, his character is still slightly developed that he subconciously knows deep deep down somewhere in his heart that his....manipulated sense of justice isn't really his and isn't what he truly is seeking for. But then, Shinn's character was also developed in the manner that he's an immature teenager that refuses to admit he's in the wrong, because whatever he chooses is the Holy Grail of Choices. In the end, there is only the choice where pure Shinn fans see Shinn as the RAWR!! I'M AN EASILY MANIPULATED TEENAGER IN DENIAL OF GUILT!!! AND I WILL STAY THE SAME!!!! and where hopeful Shinn fans see Shinn as a sad, failed product of a character that should've walked the road where he slowly, but surely sees the immaturity of his thoughts, the realization of his own sins, etc etc etc. |
2006-07-24, 22:57 | Link #98 | |
Count of Monte Dorifto
|
Quote:
SEED was boring the first half, but tuff the final half. Destiny was the other way around. |
|
2006-07-24, 22:59 | Link #99 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
|
Nightingale i agree with you but the thing is GSD failed to develop shinn properlay and unless fukuda makes bug hange sin SE (i hope he does, doesnt hav emuch reason not to) any major change to shinn would be unrealistic. i mean theres far too much crap that went on with him that would easily take 5 additional episodes to resolve. And most of it is cuz of kir a and athurn. I would lkie it if shinn does change but also still doesnt trust kira or athrun and walks in own path. that is not be someones lapdog anymore. hence a MERC
However, stupid fan polls dont consider this important and will pretty much ignore you. They want to see Kira and Lacus fanservice, not good Shinn development. SEED was boring the first half, but tuff the final half. Destiny was the other way around. except that special edition doesnt necessaroy depend on fans. fukuda did it the fans way and it screwed him. whats his incentive to listen to them now? the specials dont even air at a prime time slot. heck he can do pretty much waht ever he wants now. The fans got what they wanted with the series |
2006-07-24, 23:05 | Link #100 | |
Zechs, pilot of Tallgeese
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota.
|
Quote:
|
|
|
|