AnimeSuki Forums

RedShocktrooper · 2010-10-27, 12:51

Epic Bump!

I've been thinking about the Imperial Medium Tank and its real-life counterpart, the T-28. Using the T-28 as a basis, I've come up with some variants. I'm also calling the tank itself T-28 - proper name "Vulpine", because by VC1, it seems plausible that a tank of that designation could be in service, and still be modern.

T-28A (T-28/76A): The "common" model, with the short 76.2mm gun.
T-28B (T-28/57): A modified gun mount, with a high-velocity 57mm gun.
T-28C (T-28/76B): The base tank, only with the Heavy Tank's turret and enlongated 76.2mm gun
T-28D (T-28/85): The C-model, with the gun swapped out for that of the Tank Destroyer.
Plus varients in the Self-propelled Artillery (SU-28) and SPATGs (Self-Propelled Anti-Tank Guns).

Beri270T3 · 2010-10-30, 14:15

No doubt about it. They sound good when put like that, though I can’t help but wonder the details. The gun being only one of the attributes a tank needs. Let’s take the C or D models for instance. If one takes the turret off the Medium class and switches it out for a bigger one because it is necessary to mount a bigger gun, or at least one with greater recoil because of the size of cartridge then that adds weight, reducing mobility and putting more strain on the suspension and transmission. It may also necessitate the deletion of the aft turret if the main turret is large enough that it interferes, and increase your silhouette.

The opposite could happen with SPGs with a lot of weight cut down, speeding production or allowing for the same weight with different armour thickness and weapon. However the disadvantage is the vehicle has to be turned to fire which can be disastrous. There are pluses and minuses to every modification ranging from mobility, firepower and crew survivability, to commonality of parts, serviceability and reliability.

Yet, this is all of course without taking the possible Female (that HMG/Light Auto cannon turret from the book) and flamethrower versions and non-combat support/engineering, command variants and prototypes out of that over 12000 units produced.

RedShocktrooper · 2010-10-30, 16:45

The use of the larger Heavy Tank turret was inspired by the real-life use of the T-35's Conical turret on the T-28. Small numbers were used, but I've got no reason to believe that it too radically changed the tank's suspension - in fact, I figure it was just a means to be able to mount heavy guns, and use up leftover turrets. Since I doubt the Heavy would see much use in an offensive role, it's possible the designers built more turrets than tanks, figuring that orders that don't come in would come. End result, the leftover turrets are mounted on modified Medium tanks, offering them a broader variety of weapons.

I was simply stating the gun modifications - undoubtedly, other changes would need to occur (perhaps that aft turret would be replaced with rear-facing gun on the back of the turret? Those were fairly common in Real Life during the era, up to the 1940s with the KV-1.) Since I do figure that the Empire would probably play with gun mounts armaments, they would probably modify the suspension and hull of the tank in question.

I suppose one could insinuate the same for the Gallians (in fact, if I remember the game correctly, one can see in the background a Gallian assault gun's blueprints), and assuming that's a production vehicle, that nicely implies the Shamrock isn't the only modified Gallian tank.

Gault · 2010-11-02, 18:54

Hi I read through most of the thread.. however my 1st impressions when I 1st played VC on Ps3 was

*Welkin and Isara get their Dads Tank*

"HOLY DUCK FVCK , We get a King Tiger! Fck Yeah! time for some Panzerlied bxtches"

everything else seemed fictional to me

RedShocktrooper · 2010-11-02, 21:12

Well, that might be due to "Look harder, and you'll find it." The Edelweiss being the King Tiger is the most glaringly obvious, while the Imperial Medium Tank and the Soviet T-28 are more subtle.

Beri270T3 · 2010-11-03, 00:26

Another externally similar design (albeit a class lower in comparison) is the British A6 Medium Mk III of the Interbellum although it never reached production status. The A9 Cruiser also has three turrets, although she is an entirely different vehicle, but the double tonnage two-turret Light Tank of the Empire is vaguely similar in role to it.

I fence sit on the Edelweiss. Others have argued that one to various degrees and no doubt there are similarities shared, but I think it depends on which tank is portrayed. The Edelweiss seen for half the game and cutscenes is an entirely different flower compared to the cousin of late game.

The question then is concerning the turret modification, could the turret ring handle the gun? Take the T-35 and T-28 turret switch for instance, the actual guns were not changed as far as I'm aware, nor am I aware as to the weight and balance difference of the two turrets. The heavy tank turret is undoubtedly heavier than the standard Medium. How much difference it makes, who really knows? That change made on top of others and then there would be something up.

I take it you are referring to this vehicle? (If it doesn't work then try here)

When compared alongside the Shamrock this vehicle could reasonably be considered an 'authorized' variant compared to the vehicle commanded by Zaka which is essentially a field mod even if it was done in the work shop. Either way this may explain why the main armament is classified as PaK instead of KwK. They may have simply forgot to change it.

RedShocktrooper · 2010-11-04, 13:30

Yeah, that Tank Destroyer is exactly what I was talking about. Why didn't that make it into the final version, since TDs are perfect defensive machines?

Neovoid · 2010-11-11, 03:41

Did anyone ever find out where did the Flamethrower Attachment originate from? Cause every time that I did a search for "flamethrower attachment" I keep getting results for Call of Duty: Black Ops and Valkyria Chronicles came out 2 years before.

DC20 · 2010-11-11, 03:57

It originated from some guy behind a desk who thought it would be cool to have in a video game. As far as I'm aware they don't actually make flame attachments for real weapons. Flamethrowers were unilaterally banned by at least the US, and I'd be willing to bet a number of other states as well. For one they're a PR nightmare - they're very controversial weapons as the guy on the receiving end isn't having a good day even as far as getting killed is concerned. For two their use is questionable. They've largely been replaced by thermobaric weapons. They just aren't as useful as they used to be. They were far too large to mount on a rifle before they were phased out, and honestly I don't see mounting a flamethrower on a rifle being a good idea even if you could. They're going to be heavy and bulky - two things you do NOT want on a weapon that you're going to be carrying around all day, and when you need to really move with a weapon you'd better be able to get it pointed where you want to point it right when you want it pointed. As I see it it'd just be far too cumbersome.

Firefly00 · 2010-11-11, 11:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by DC20

It originated from some guy behind a desk who thought it would be cool to have in a video game...

Yep, Treyarch taking a bit of dramatic license. Since shotguns almost certainly exist in the VC universe, a Dragon's Breath analogue would have been a more sensible alternative. Which reminds me that VC2's armored techs would be better served with a shotgun instead of the mallet (which, Red noted, would make them very similar to RA3's Peacekeepers).

Speaking of Black Ops, I wonder how well the 'MOPP-IV' gameplay tweak seen in a portion of a late mission therein would carry over to VC...

Spoiler for Explanation:

KiraYamatoFan · 2010-11-11, 13:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Firefly00

Yep, Treyarch taking a bit of dramatic license. Since shotguns almost certainly exist in the VC universe, a Dragon's Breath analogue would have been a more sensible alternative. Which reminds me that VC2's armored techs would be better served with a shotgun instead of the mallet (which, Red noted, would make them very similar to RA3's Peacekeepers).

You wrote about shotguns and Black Ops: I also believe shotguns could have been a better alternative for armored techs if their purpose is to safely take on more than one soldier in the area.

Spoiler for off-topic:

DC20 · 2010-11-11, 18:56

Dragon's Breath rounds? In a way I almost feel the same way about those as I do about the underslung flamethrowers (except, of course, that they actually exist). I don't have any experience with them personally, but from what I've heard of them they're novelty rounds. Odds are you're just going to start a fire, and if you really need a job done at close range a shot of 00 is going to do you a lot better than a glamorized firework. I'm sure VC could come up with some sort of explanation for it though (uh... ragnite flames are more reliable and have tactical uses!).

As far as I'm concerned CoD died with 2. That said, that MOPP suit idea is actually really cool. Any casualties in a chemical environment are assumed to be contaminated, and in some instances there is no operating procedure for evacuating casualties in such - they're just assumed dead. Scary as Hell to think that the only thing keeping those people alive is that suit, and that even just tearing the thing on the ground could be fatal.

Firefly00 · 2010-11-11, 23:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by DC20

Dragon's Breath rounds? In a way I almost feel the same way about those as I do about the underslung flamethrowers (except, of course, that they actually exist). I don't have any experience with them personally, but from what I've heard of them they're novelty rounds.

From what I've seen in this playthrough, Treyarch might have taken some liberties with these too, making them more like minature impact-fused incendiary grenades.

Quote:

That said, that MOPP suit idea is actually really cool. Any casualties in a chemical environment are assumed to be contaminated, and in some instances there is no operating procedure for evacuating casualties in such - they're just assumed dead. Scary as Hell to think that the only thing keeping those people alive is that suit, and that even just tearing the thing on the ground could be fatal.

Yeah, it was quite a surprise when I saw it on one of the playthroughs that've cropped up (I wonder how much cursing and controller-tossing rage it's generated so far)...and I do believe it's so far unique in the genre.

Related: Blood Stone gets kudos for something close to it, in reverse...

Spoiler for Explanation:

Neovoid · 2010-11-13, 02:17

Just out curiosity, has anyone tried to make Valkyria Chronicles inspired classes in CoD: BOps? Here are some few examples I've been fiddling around with in offline Combat Training:

Spoiler for Valkyria Chronicle Classes in Black Ops:

don_Durandal · 2010-11-13, 09:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neovoid

Did anyone ever find out where did the Flamethrower Attachment originate from? Cause every time that I did a search for "flamethrower attachment" I keep getting results for Call of Duty: Black Ops and Valkyria Chronicles came out 2 years before.

Do a search about the "Flaming Bayonet" prototypes of WW1.
Sometimes fiction isn't that far from reality.

Firefly00 · 2010-11-13, 11:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neovoid

Just out curiosity, has anyone tried to make Valkyria Chronicles inspired classes in CoD: BOps? Here are some few examples I've been fiddling around with in offline Combat Training...

Interesting. On a couple of occasions, I've remarked that the VC universe could easily support a Battlefield-esque TPS; most of the building blocks are already there...

Quote:

Originally Posted by don_Durandal

Do a search about the "Flaming Bayonet" prototypes of WW1.
Sometimes fiction isn't that far from reality.

Wow, this came as a surprise. Here's picture of one of these devices...

Spoiler for Large Image:

grylsyjaeger · 2010-11-13, 18:06

Now there's something I have to get for my P17!

KiraYamatoFan · 2010-11-14, 18:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neovoid

Just out curiosity, has anyone tried to make Valkyria Chronicles inspired classes in CoD: BOps? Here are some few examples I've been fiddling around with in offline Combat Training:

Spoiler for Valkyria Chronicle Classes in Black Ops:

Nice one indeed, mate! That's what I would have had as well.

Now I'm stuck in quite in a dilemma too in one of my future artwork projects. I wonder if Alicia would be better off with a Barrett REC7 (or M468 for Splinter Cell fans) or with a M14 dusted off from the past and slightly modified for the 21st Century.

grylsyjaeger · 2010-11-15, 01:37

I'm still standing by the humble HK G3 as the standard infantry weapon of a modern day Gallian Militia.

Neovoid · 2010-11-15, 01:50

I'd go with the M14, I get the feeling that modern day scouts tend to prefer 7.62mm over the 5.56mm which is more suited for a shocktrooper. COD: Black Ops version gave us the semi-automatic M14 with a wooden pistol grip and even let us attach a M203 grenade launcher. It's almost like giving the semi-automatic M1 Garand a 20 round magazine and an under barrel launcher that can fire 40mm grenades instead rifle grenades. Sadly, Warlord wouldn't allow us to add an ACOG Scope or IR Scope with the launcher.

Valkyria Chronicles 2 also gave us new advance tier classes and new abilities they have. For example, Scout Elites don't get the grenade launcher attachment, but they have the highest movement. In Black Ops, that translates M14 with ACOG Scope and Grip or Suppressor with Lightweight Pro, Warlord Pro, and Marathon Pro.

I also like the attention to detail Treyarch did with the 1 tier perks in relation what your character looks like.

Lightweight: Scout Class
Scavenger: Engineer Class (character model carries the most equipment)
Ghost: Sniper Class
Flak Jacket: Lancer Class (extra protection against explosion and shrapnel)
Hardline: Shocktrooper Class (they look like assault troops with helmets and ballistic vests?)

2010-10-27, 12:51	Link #121
RedShocktrooper Charge Me! Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: I'm not gone! I'm where you either use a slingshot or a gun! Age: 30	Epic Bump! I've been thinking about the Imperial Medium Tank and its real-life counterpart, the T-28. Using the T-28 as a basis, I've come up with some variants. I'm also calling the tank itself T-28 - proper name "Vulpine", because by VC1, it seems plausible that a tank of that designation could be in service, and still be modern. T-28A (T-28/76A): The "common" model, with the short 76.2mm gun. T-28B (T-28/57): A modified gun mount, with a high-velocity 57mm gun. T-28C (T-28/76B): The base tank, only with the Heavy Tank's turret and enlongated 76.2mm gun T-28D (T-28/85): The C-model, with the gun swapped out for that of the Tank Destroyer. Plus varients in the Self-propelled Artillery (SU-28) and SPATGs (Self-Propelled Anti-Tank Guns).

2010-11-13, 02:17	Link #134
Neovoid Member Join Date: Mar 2007	Just out curiosity, has anyone tried to make Valkyria Chronicles inspired classes in CoD: BOps? Here are some few examples I've been fiddling around with in offline Combat Training: Spoiler for Valkyria Chronicle Classes in Black Ops: Scouts Main Weapon: M14, FN Fal Secondary: M1911, Makarov Perks: Lightweight, Hardened, Marathon Elite Scouts Main Weapon: M14, FN Fal Attachment: Grenade Launcher Secondary: M1911, Makarov Attachment: Any Perks: Lightweight Pro, Hardened Pro, Marathon Pro Shocktroopers Main Weapon: AK-47, Colt Commando Secondary: M1911, Makarov Perks: Hardline, Steady Aim, Second Chance Elite Shocktroopers Main Weapon: AK-47, Colt Commando Attachment: Flamethrower Secondary: M1911, Makarov Attachment: Any Perks: Hardline Pro, Steady Aim Pro, Second Chance Pro Lancers Main Weapon: Any SMGs or Shotguns Secondary: Any Launchers Perks: Flak Jacket, Sleight of Hand, Tactical Mask Elite Lancers Main Weapon: Any SMGs or Shotguns Secondary: Any Launchers Perks: Flak Jacket Pro, Sleight of Hand Pro, Tactical Mask Pro Snipers Main Weapon: Any Sniper Rifle Secondary: M1911, Makarov, Crossbow Perks: Ghost, Scout/Warlord, Ninja Elite Snipers Main Weapon: Any Sniper Rifle Attachment: Silencer, Infrared Scope, Adjustable Scope Secondary: M1911, Makarov, Crossbow Attachment: Any Perks: Ghost Pro, Scout Pro/Warlord Pro, Ninja Pro Engineers Main Weapon: M16 Secondary: Colt Python, CZ75 Perks: Scavenger, Sleight of Hand, Hacker Elite Engineers Main Weapon: M16 Secondary: Colt Python, CZ75 Attachment: Any Perks: Scavenger Pro, Sleight of Hand Pro, Hacker Pro

2010-11-13, 18:06	Link #137
grylsyjaeger Onani Master Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: The girl's bathroom Age: 34	Now there's something I have to get for my P17! __________________ "It doesn't mean much, we never had a chance."

2010-11-15, 01:37	Link #139
grylsyjaeger Onani Master Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: The girl's bathroom Age: 34	I'm still standing by the humble HK G3 as the standard infantry weapon of a modern day Gallian Militia. __________________ "It doesn't mean much, we never had a chance."

2010-10-30, 14:15	Link #122
Beri270T3 Member Join Date: Oct 2010	No doubt about it. They sound good when put like that, though I can’t help but wonder the details. The gun being only one of the attributes a tank needs. Let’s take the C or D models for instance. If one takes the turret off the Medium class and switches it out for a bigger one because it is necessary to mount a bigger gun, or at least one with greater recoil because of the size of cartridge then that adds weight, reducing mobility and putting more strain on the suspension and transmission. It may also necessitate the deletion of the aft turret if the main turret is large enough that it interferes, and increase your silhouette. The opposite could happen with SPGs with a lot of weight cut down, speeding production or allowing for the same weight with different armour thickness and weapon. However the disadvantage is the vehicle has to be turned to fire which can be disastrous. There are pluses and minuses to every modification ranging from mobility, firepower and crew survivability, to commonality of parts, serviceability and reliability. Yet, this is all of course without taking the possible Female (that HMG/Light Auto cannon turret from the book) and flamethrower versions and non-combat support/engineering, command variants and prototypes out of that over 12000 units produced.

2010-10-30, 16:45	Link #123
RedShocktrooper Charge Me! Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: I'm not gone! I'm where you either use a slingshot or a gun! Age: 30	The use of the larger Heavy Tank turret was inspired by the real-life use of the T-35's Conical turret on the T-28. Small numbers were used, but I've got no reason to believe that it too radically changed the tank's suspension - in fact, I figure it was just a means to be able to mount heavy guns, and use up leftover turrets. Since I doubt the Heavy would see much use in an offensive role, it's possible the designers built more turrets than tanks, figuring that orders that don't come in would come. End result, the leftover turrets are mounted on modified Medium tanks, offering them a broader variety of weapons. I was simply stating the gun modifications - undoubtedly, other changes would need to occur (perhaps that aft turret would be replaced with rear-facing gun on the back of the turret? Those were fairly common in Real Life during the era, up to the 1940s with the KV-1.) Since I do figure that the Empire would probably play with gun mounts armaments, they would probably modify the suspension and hull of the tank in question. I suppose one could insinuate the same for the Gallians (in fact, if I remember the game correctly, one can see in the background a Gallian assault gun's blueprints), and assuming that's a production vehicle, that nicely implies the Shamrock isn't the only modified Gallian tank.

2010-11-02, 18:54	Link #124
Gault inc_mplete Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Sydney Australia / Taiwan Age: 35	Hi I read through most of the thread.. however my 1st impressions when I 1st played VC on Ps3 was Welkin and Isara get their Dads Tank "HOLY DUCK FVCK , We get a King Tiger! Fck Yeah! time for some Panzerlied bxtches" everything else seemed fictional to me

2010-11-02, 21:12	Link #125
RedShocktrooper Charge Me! Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: I'm not gone! I'm where you either use a slingshot or a gun! Age: 30	Well, that might be due to "Look harder, and you'll find it." The Edelweiss being the King Tiger is the most glaringly obvious, while the Imperial Medium Tank and the Soviet T-28 are more subtle.

2010-11-03, 00:26	Link #126
Beri270T3 Member Join Date: Oct 2010	Another externally similar design (albeit a class lower in comparison) is the British A6 Medium Mk III of the Interbellum although it never reached production status. The A9 Cruiser also has three turrets, although she is an entirely different vehicle, but the double tonnage two-turret Light Tank of the Empire is vaguely similar in role to it. I fence sit on the Edelweiss. Others have argued that one to various degrees and no doubt there are similarities shared, but I think it depends on which tank is portrayed. The Edelweiss seen for half the game and cutscenes is an entirely different flower compared to the cousin of late game. The question then is concerning the turret modification, could the turret ring handle the gun? Take the T-35 and T-28 turret switch for instance, the actual guns were not changed as far as I'm aware, nor am I aware as to the weight and balance difference of the two turrets. The heavy tank turret is undoubtedly heavier than the standard Medium. How much difference it makes, who really knows? That change made on top of others and then there would be something up. I take it you are referring to this vehicle? (If it doesn't work then try here) When compared alongside the Shamrock this vehicle could reasonably be considered an 'authorized' variant compared to the vehicle commanded by Zaka which is essentially a field mod even if it was done in the work shop. Either way this may explain why the main armament is classified as PaK instead of KwK. They may have simply forgot to change it.

2010-11-04, 13:30	Link #127
RedShocktrooper Charge Me! Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: I'm not gone! I'm where you either use a slingshot or a gun! Age: 30	Yeah, that Tank Destroyer is exactly what I was talking about. Why didn't that make it into the final version, since TDs are perfect defensive machines?

2010-11-11, 03:41	Link #128
Neovoid Member Join Date: Mar 2007	Did anyone ever find out where did the Flamethrower Attachment originate from? Cause every time that I did a search for "flamethrower attachment" I keep getting results for Call of Duty: Black Ops and Valkyria Chronicles came out 2 years before.

2010-11-11, 03:57	Link #129
DC20 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2009	It originated from some guy behind a desk who thought it would be cool to have in a video game. As far as I'm aware they don't actually make flame attachments for real weapons. Flamethrowers were unilaterally banned by at least the US, and I'd be willing to bet a number of other states as well. For one they're a PR nightmare - they're very controversial weapons as the guy on the receiving end isn't having a good day even as far as getting killed is concerned. For two their use is questionable. They've largely been replaced by thermobaric weapons. They just aren't as useful as they used to be. They were far too large to mount on a rifle before they were phased out, and honestly I don't see mounting a flamethrower on a rifle being a good idea even if you could. They're going to be heavy and bulky - two things you do NOT want on a weapon that you're going to be carrying around all day, and when you need to really move with a weapon you'd better be able to get it pointed where you want to point it right when you want it pointed. As I see it it'd just be far too cumbersome.

2010-11-11, 18:56	Link #132
DC20 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2009	Dragon's Breath rounds? In a way I almost feel the same way about those as I do about the underslung flamethrowers (except, of course, that they actually exist). I don't have any experience with them personally, but from what I've heard of them they're novelty rounds. Odds are you're just going to start a fire, and if you really need a job done at close range a shot of 00 is going to do you a lot better than a glamorized firework. I'm sure VC could come up with some sort of explanation for it though (uh... ragnite flames are more reliable and have tactical uses!). As far as I'm concerned CoD died with 2. That said, that MOPP suit idea is actually really cool. Any casualties in a chemical environment are assumed to be contaminated, and in some instances there is no operating procedure for evacuating casualties in such - they're just assumed dead. Scary as Hell to think that the only thing keeping those people alive is that suit, and that even just tearing the thing on the ground could be fatal.

2010-11-15, 01:50	Link #140
Neovoid Member Join Date: Mar 2007	I'd go with the M14, I get the feeling that modern day scouts tend to prefer 7.62mm over the 5.56mm which is more suited for a shocktrooper. COD: Black Ops version gave us the semi-automatic M14 with a wooden pistol grip and even let us attach a M203 grenade launcher. It's almost like giving the semi-automatic M1 Garand a 20 round magazine and an under barrel launcher that can fire 40mm grenades instead rifle grenades. Sadly, Warlord wouldn't allow us to add an ACOG Scope or IR Scope with the launcher. Valkyria Chronicles 2 also gave us new advance tier classes and new abilities they have. For example, Scout Elites don't get the grenade launcher attachment, but they have the highest movement. In Black Ops, that translates M14 with ACOG Scope and Grip or Suppressor with Lightweight Pro, Warlord Pro, and Marathon Pro. I also like the attention to detail Treyarch did with the 1 tier perks in relation what your character looks like. Lightweight: Scout Class Scavenger: Engineer Class (character model carries the most equipment) Ghost: Sniper Class Flak Jacket: Lancer Class (extra protection against explosion and shrapnel) Hardline: Shocktrooper Class (they look like assault troops with helmets and ballistic vests?)