2011-04-12, 12:29 | Link #22601 | |
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Join Date: Jun 2010
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I think you mean Knox's 8th. But that's not really how it works.
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2011-04-12, 14:53 | Link #22603 | |||||||
The True Culprit
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Also note that when they're giving their testimony to Rosa, Shannon is with them, and they keep stumbling over their words and bouncing obvious lies off each other. I imagine it's a sort of "Tell them what I told you or I kill you guys" thing. Quote:
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Beatrice just signed Maria's name for trollans.
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2011-04-12, 19:01 | Link #22604 |
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: In the Meta- World... on Virgillia's bed.
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I have a theory (not long, complex one, but something nice and short) and this is the only way Ep 7 can make sense in my head. I think Shannon is her own person, but she goes around the island pretending to be a witch. Then, we she left, that's when Yasu changed her servant name and became the new Shannon. Evidence: The maids referring to Shannon as a seperate person and Yasu's interactions with Gaap (where it just so happens that Shannon was also there).
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2011-04-12, 19:34 | Link #22605 | |
Sorcerer of Awesome
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And Yasu's interactions with Gaap while Shannon's also present... Matters how? On Yasu's little tale/storytelling, Shannon is (for the sake of argument) a different person. She's trying to tell her story without giving away everything. Shannon openly participating in the Yasu/Gaap talk'd be a dead giveaway. Far more than it already is without her doing so. That, and what'd be the point of there being a Shannon who existed, left, then was ripped off and turned into one of Yasu's characters/personas? |
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2011-04-12, 22:30 | Link #22606 |
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Join Date: Apr 2011
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I'm not sure I'm buying that Yasu had her mental-state completely under control and was just really, really good at acting. She said that she didn't want to look into mirrors because that would remind her of her ''disgusting form'' and remind her that she's not really a witch(not quoted word for word, but that's basically what she said when she was making up her Ghost-Beatrice personality).
Why is Gohda's viewpoint not reliable? He clearly hated the fact that the place he was hired into fed him ghost stories. He only kept up the image of them because he didn't want to get on bad terms with his co-workers, but I'm sure, as many normal humans would, he wouldn't keep up the sharade, when he witnessed Nanjo being killed. Unless you are saying that Yasu disguised herself as Kanon, killed Nanjo, threatened to kill Gohda(Genji saw Yasu as the real master so she didn't have to threaten him), dressed up as Shannon, and then continued the story. That still wouldn't contradict what I said, I must not be reading your post clear enough... When I think about it, Kinzo is indeed delusional, and I'm sure he is just crazy enough to rape a male-beatrice. I am not referring to Kanon and Shanon as ''personalities''. Think of what Maria did with Sakutaru, Sakutaru wasn't a personality to Maria, he was a being that could talk and think for himself(even though Maria did the acting for him on a human perspective). When the relatives solved the riddle of the gold in Episode 7, Yasu said ''I killed the witch Beatrice, this goes into accordance with the rules I set, as long as the many other selves in me understand, that is enough''. She couldn't just remove the mindset of Beatrice she made, she had to kill it based on a set of rules, or actually simulate herself fighting with them mentally. You are also forgetting, that Shannon does forget things quite often. Shannon, when Yasu first talked with her, was the top-of-the-line servant. When she was around in Rokkenjima, it was constantly hinted that she was reduced to making various notes to help her keep track of everything that is going on. This can explain why Yasu would love 3 different people, and why she could honestly go off saying that Shannon can ''transfer her love'' to her. It would take some serious acting to kill an entire family based on Battler's return if she never had any feelings for him. Shannon could easily explain the removal of either Kanon or Shannon, it has been hinted that Shannon was saving up her money, and that she had the funds to leave years ago(right? I may be wrong here). Nothing was stopping Shannon from simply saying ''screw it'' and leaving. In fact, she could have planned an excuse to run away with Battler long ago, and simply re-arranged it for Kanon. Eva is different, Eva has the crest on her arm. Although I can't deny that that puts a serious hole in my previous theory. My theory was that furniture had to have the crest imprinted on their legs because they had no right to wear clothes(what Beatrice told Battler) and that it was a privilege. |
2011-04-12, 23:17 | Link #22607 | |
Dea ex Kakera
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sea of Fragments
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Earth to earth, illusion to illusion. No illusion can create a corpse. As long as there's no murdering involved, Gohda will lie when a gold ingot is waved in his face just like everyone else. He did a great deal of it in EP4, for instance (first telling the cousins about the holes in the dining room, and then faking his death).
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2011-04-12, 23:27 | Link #22608 |
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Join Date: Apr 2011
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Good point, but Kanon wasn't ''entirely himself'' from what the others had witnessed, but they couldn't mistake the perpetrator as Kanon either. I figured that Yasu had become ''Beatrice'', but because Yasu originally looks like Kanon, they thought it was Kanon, hence their massive confusion with everything. This is because Kanon was ''dead'' in the rules of the game, having been pierced by a stake.
This doesn't violate the corpse being created, as long as a little wordplay is involved. Although I don't feel too strongly about that anymore. Last edited by cronnoponno; 2011-04-12 at 23:37. |
2011-04-12, 23:41 | Link #22609 | ||
Mystery buff
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Gone Fishin!
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2011-04-12, 23:58 | Link #22610 |
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Buffer overflow
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This might have been mentioned somewhere on the thread, but Ryuukishi's first post-EP8 interview has been released as part of Keiya's theory book, and I finally got my hands on one today. There's no full answer from Ryuukishi, of course, but he does confirm several points and give a few partial answers to closed rooms.
One of those points is pretty big for us overseas. Apparently, the name "Chiester" is official and does come from Winchester, with an 'I' (ai=love) added in. Guns+Love=Bunnies
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2011-04-13, 08:16 | Link #22612 | |
BUY MY BOOK!!!
Join Date: May 2009
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2011-04-13, 13:46 | Link #22613 | |
The True Culprit
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2011-04-13, 17:38 | Link #22614 | |
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: In the Meta- World... on Virgillia's bed.
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2) It wasn't just Berune and Asune , it was the other maids too. 3) There's a difference between changing your name and creating a personality. |
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2011-04-13, 18:09 | Link #22615 | |
Sorcerer of Awesome
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Doesn't matter if it was more maids, my point still stands. The strange monologue of Shannon's? Happened right after her memory was rewritten. Not weird at all. Yasu is known for being able to change her characters'... Well, EVERYTHING. Shannon was given her clumsiness after she created her witch persona. That, and, y'know, there really is no evidence of a real Shannon existing. And the Ushiromiya family is stupid. Anyone with enough intelligence and Yasu's resources/benefits could pull it off. Natsuhi, Krauss and Jessica aren't exactly aware of these benefits, need I remind you. "HEY, LET'S IGNORE THE FACT THIS KID JUST CHANGED HIS/HER BLESSED NAME! LOLOLOL" Yes, they're stupid, but they're not THAT stupid. Oh, and Yasu went to school with Jessica. Can't change her name there. Further proof they share names, considering everything is ohsocoincidentially rewritten so Shannon was the one who went to school. |
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2011-04-13, 19:25 | Link #22617 | |
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: In the Meta- World... on Virgillia's bed.
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So these people are stupid for not caring about a name change, but their not stupid for seeing a person talk his/herself and acting like its the most natural thing? Obviously if it was known to the entire mansion that a servant had their name change, no one would care about it later. And, I don't know if you know this, but you could re- register and change your name under certain circumstances, such as being adopted, married, witness protection program, or having a very rich father who could re- register your name using the power of money. I also must add that, because she/he is Kinzo's child, she/he can ask Kinzo to change her/his name and he would do it. Furthermore, Yasu only made it so that she didn't exist in the island, which would include re- writing everybody's memory, not just Shannon's. The only way she could do that is: (1) not existing in the first place, (2) getting rid of every piece of info concerning her, or (3) just running away and, as time goes by, people stop giving a flip about her. And again, how in the world did Shannon become pro- servant to careless rookie? |
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2011-04-13, 19:37 | Link #22618 | |||
The True Culprit
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There's no evidence for Yasu speaking to her imaginary friends OUTLOUD, so I'll just ignore that. Quote:
I don't understand why so many people have such a problem grasping such simple metaphorical prose. It's not that confusing.
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2011-04-13, 19:39 | Link #22619 | |
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Kinzo wasn't aware of Yasu being his child until MINUTES BEFORE HIS DEATH. Yasu doesn't talk to her characters out loud, it's all in her mind. Shannon didn't exist as a real person, she was a persona of Yasu's. The ACTUAL Shannon (Sayo Yasuda. As Aura said, deductive reasoning.) was always clumsy, and the pro maid Shannon was the character, later rewritten into Yasu's role. The little "I became a witch" was symbolic. Yasu didn't erase her existance. She rewrote the character of Shannon to be exactly what she'd been, while creating her witch persona. Not to mention, as said many times, the servant names are BLESSED NAMES. If they asked for a name change they'd be pretty much kicked out by Natsuhi and her exaggerated amounts of strictness. Genji string pulling or not. And it wouldn't be unusual if the maids randomly switched between calling her Yasu and by her servant name. Hell, I sometimes call people by their names then randomly switch and use their nicknames. Not unusual. The bits where Shannon answers, if you pay attention, are completely ignored by the Maids of Purgatory. |
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2011-04-13, 23:03 | Link #22620 | |
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Join Date: Apr 2011
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Spoiler for Confusion:
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