2012-07-24, 08:31 | Link #1461 | |
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Due to the mechanical nature, mechanical based movement also has limits with the direction change with movement capability. High performance thruster based movement approach is closer to Gundam's with GN drives or any other high tech Sci-Fi flying tanks e.g. Startrek's Federation Tactical Fighters. |
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2012-07-24, 08:35 | Link #1462 |
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So? That topic has nothing to do with this. Yuuya isn't complaining that mechanical based flight movement control is inferior to thruster control, the problem is that he's not even making use of the mechanical control surfaces in the first place so he's focusing only on the thrusters being too weak and almost completely ignoring the mechanical aspect of control altogether. He can control the TSF just fine when he starts actually taking this into account.
For what it's worth part of the XFJ program does involve swapping out the engines for more powerful ones and adding extra thrust nozzles on other parts of the TSF, so the Japanese do understand the advantages of having better thruster control. |
2012-07-24, 08:57 | Link #1463 | |
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Spoiler for EP4:
At this point in time, they are still working on it. |
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2012-07-24, 09:01 | Link #1464 |
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But Japanese TSFs do hit and run high-speed tactics. The VN doesn't have them sitting around forming up defensive circles, they jump in and out and jink all over the place. They had to set one up in episode 4 because Yuuya couldn't control his machine right and ended up standing around and getting surrounded, so the rest of them had to clear a space and help him out.
Even if pure high power thrust vectoring was proven to be superior to mechanical aerodynamic control, proper use of said mechanical aerodynamic control would still have let him properly maintain control and maneuver and hence do much better than he was doing without making use of it at all. Except that he didn't use it and blamed the machine instead of how he was handling it. Last edited by DoomRavager; 2012-07-24 at 09:14. |
2012-07-24, 09:16 | Link #1465 | |
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The keyword is "sustained" and EP2's Japanese TSFs doesn't show that. |
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2012-07-24, 09:17 | Link #1466 |
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I really don't understand what Yui is saying, they're both acting like pricks but at least Yuuya is saying stuff from a technical point, how she brings out how their pilots can handle it doesn't explain a thing and the fact that most of them got destroyed doesn't help it.
And I'm not saying that's what she says but what it sounds like I think she is really trying to say the Fubuki is fine which I agree with but that she's not doing a very good job at it |
2012-07-24, 09:20 | Link #1467 | |
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Oh, but they haven't really animated anything like that yet. |
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2012-07-24, 09:24 | Link #1468 | |
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Spoiler for EP2:
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2012-07-24, 09:26 | Link #1469 |
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...yes, so? How is that a Japanese-designed domestic TSF? That's an American design that didn't make mobility a priority and when the Japanese adopted it all they did was give it sword power.
And the thrusters failing was probably a product of being hit pretty damn hard, not stalling due to speed issues or similar, though I'll allow that it's pretty vague. I don't think engines stalling from lack of power has ever been brought up as an issue at any time in any place in the franchise anyway. By the way, this has nothing to do with the game's story. Last edited by DoomRavager; 2012-07-24 at 09:37. |
2012-07-24, 09:35 | Link #1470 | ||
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The whole point of Project Prominence and the anime's story is for "The Next Generation TSF Technology Development Plan". Quote:
Yuuyu: The main engine lacks power. It's only effective at certain speeds which the engine has difficulty maintaining. In another words, the main engine is useless outside a certain speeds and has difficulty maintaining it at the prescribe level. Wonderful Japanese piloting skills which resulted in casualties. Where's the sustained hit-and-run omnidirectional fast 3D movements? PS; Sorry, if I sound like the Yuuyu character. I haven't read the manga nor played console game. Last edited by encia; 2012-07-26 at 20:39. |
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2012-07-24, 09:35 | Link #1471 |
Adeptus Animus
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Here's my main point though: While he indeed does blame the machine, that doesn't change that an engine that risks stalling unless you keep a really tight attention on it is an objective flaw in a machine. Regardless of his blatant bias, this is a flaw that should be addressed, not ignored. And yes, this does fall under the "no more difficult to control" part, which means that according to Yui, all Japanese mechs suffer from this.
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2012-07-24, 09:36 | Link #1472 |
OC Belka Scriptor
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It's really an issue with the different specs of American and Japanese TSFs.
For example the European EF-2000 has a similar design approach to Japanese TSFs, making even Japan interested in introducing them into thier ranks. EDIT: Okay, I somehow missed the stall part, yeah that really is an issue (heck this thread get's new posts FAST!)
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2012-07-24, 09:39 | Link #1473 | |||
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As a side note, even though Yui outranks Yuuya, its not clear that she has any real authority to discipline him. At least in our world, military personnel assigned to UN missions generally remain under the direct command of their own national commander. Yui could appeal to Yuuya's U.S. superior to discipline him, but she would lack the authority to discipline him herself. Don't know about the Muv Luv world, but really, if there's one thing quintessentially American about deploying forces, its that American troops are never subject to host country or international jurisdiction/laws. Last edited by Trajan; 2012-07-24 at 10:13. Reason: spelling |
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2012-07-24, 09:39 | Link #1474 | ||
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Yes, but it's a two generation old American design that has long been left behind by the 3rd generation machine that the XFJ project is attempting to further improve upon, not to mention all the other 2nd and 3rd generation TSFs that have been developed since then, and fielded by the IJA or not it doesn't have anything to do with Japanese design philosophy and the control issues that Yuuya is having with the Fubuki. So I fail to see why you brought it up in a discussion of Japanese TSF designs.
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He was right in that the thruster power wasn't up to scratch compared to what he's used to, but he was wrong in assuming that the machine could not be properly controlled as a result of said poor thruster power. Mobility was obviously improved further with the introduction of better engines and more thruster nozzles through the XFJ program, but control was not as poor as Yuuya was trying to make it out to be so he could dump all the responsibility on the machine. Last edited by DoomRavager; 2012-07-24 at 10:04. |
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2012-07-24, 10:18 | Link #1475 |
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Some of you are forgetting that the TSF Yuuya is using is severely outdated. Yui says the others operate in the same "way". It's naive to take what she has said and assume that the Japanese never update their new generation TSF's with new soft/hardware or correct any "defects". It's just how they're used to piloting that way and to them it isn't a flaw of it being over sensitive at all thus there's nothing that needs to be fixed in that area.
It also shows the differences between Yuuya and Yui. Yuuya wants to force the TSF to be aggressive and rush in head first(Despite not even understanding his own machine), Yui meanwhile wants to use the TSF in a less direct approach without forcing the TSF to do what it was never meant to do in the first place. The Japanese could have easily developed their TSF's to be just like the American ones, however they didn't want to do that. So obviously Yuuya failed because he tried an American approach to a Japanese Machine. It's also pointless for Yuuya to whine about the outdated thrusters and the such since he already knows the machine is outdated and lacks the power of modern machines. The test models obviously wont have that issue however they will still require that Yuuya pilot them as they are intended to be piloted and not try and force his American piloting experience on it. |
2012-07-24, 10:44 | Link #1476 | ||||
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The control issue is linked to maneuverability bias vs weak engines ratio. Spoiler for EP04:
The purpose of Project Prominence and for Yuuya to get a harem. Quote:
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Last edited by encia; 2012-07-24 at 11:09. |
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2012-07-24, 11:43 | Link #1477 |
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I am locking this thread until we make a determination about what to do about all the many topics that are included within (some of which are fairly off-topic and better suited to other existing threads). Please wait for a decision to be made.
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2012-07-24, 18:43 | Link #1478 |
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Okay, the sub-forum is now created. Please note, though, that there are strict rules about posting information from the Muv-Luv games in Total Eclipse anime threads, namely it's forbidden. That being said, there are now a number of other threads where this discussion can go instead, so it should be easier to direct the discussion accordingly. We will be observing a strict no spoiler policy for this show, including automatic one-day bans on the first offence, so please take time now to review the Spoiler Policy for this sub-forum. Also, there is information in each thread about what is on-topic/allowed. If additional threads are needed beyond what is here now, please request it.
Thanks and have fun! Edit: Also, I should note. There are three speculation threads:
This way people can decide how much "spoilers" they want. Also, you can use the Q&A thread if all you want is a simple answer to a question.
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action, aliens, mecha, romance, science fiction, seinen |
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