Epitaph: Speculations and Theories [Episode 1-4]

[ijriims]

大辞林

けい【京】
数の単位。兆の1万倍。10の16乗。古くは兆の10倍とも。きょう。

ちょう【兆】
数の単位。1億の1万倍。10の12乗。古くは中国で1億の10倍。「八―円の予算」

おく【億】
数の単位。1万の1万倍。10の8乗。古くは万の10倍とも。

[Raiza Sunozaki]

The biggest problem I have with the Taiwan theory is just some of the reasoning behind it. I have trouble seeing Kinzo's beloved hometown as Taiwan. Problem is it's just a hunch, so I can only give my reasons for thinking so.
It's never been mentioned that Kinzo ever left Japan. I know this is no reason to say he's never left Japan, but if Taiwan is so important to the epitaph, I think it would've been mentioned that Kinzo had spent some of his youth there, or at least say that he spent his youth outside the country.
Other than that I think whoever wrote that theory has a good bit of sense. I also think the relief on the chapel has something to do with epitaph... I just need to find the key in my theory.
Oh, and I don't think Ryukishi said the epitaph is impossible. He said that there are people that have solved all but 2% of it, but all that means is that there's one part of the epitaph that all people have trouble with.

[ijriims]

There was hint from the game pointing to Taiwan. and in Ryukishi07's interview, he said that while considering the hometown of Kinzo, you have to consider all of the Japan and that island state.

[Jan-Poo]

You have mentioned that before ijriims but where are those hints? I don't remember anything to relate Kinzo to Taiwan.

You have mentioned "areca palm" but I can't find it anywhere.

[ijriims]

Spoiler for Spoiler from EP5:

It was in EP5, it was said by Krauss when he and Natsuhi were having their honeymoon trip

[MeoTwister5]

Originally Posted by ijriims

Spoiler for Spoiler from EP5:

It was in EP5, it was said by Krauss when he and Natsuhi were having their honeymoon trip

Spoiler for Ep5 Spoilers:

Well the problem is that this was sort of just Krauss telling Natsuhi to try new things and stuff (my Ep5 memory is hazy), and to some extent many people would not pick up on the areca palm as a Taiwan suggestion (when I think Taiwan delicassies, stinky tofu comes to mind first). Plus AFAIK there was no suggestion yet that Kinzo had ever been to Taiwan at that point.

It's a pretty loose relationship to begin with, but again given that Formosa/Taiwan was officially a part of Japan at that time after the Sino-Japanese war it's fairly possible he's been there in his travels to gain wealth to rebu8ild the family.

[Jan-Poo]

There are two problems with that ijriims.

The first is that it is Krauss there and not Kinzo. The second is that it is in Ep5. And the epitaph should have been solvable since Ep4. Of course this might be an additional hint, but that's a very long shot.

[ijriims]

Well, that's not my theory, just a theory I found most convincing and sounding.

I suppose the solving of the epitaph was not the focus of Ryukishi07 from the beginning, solving it was bonus but absolutely not relevant to solving the episodes.

So he only provided more additional hint in EP5, and in EP3 he had already given some hints.

In anime, almost nothing was given.

[Jan-Poo]

Well the theory that Ssol quoted is very interesting in many different ways, it's just that I couldn't really see it coming that Kinzo's homeland was in Taiwan, I don't think it was hinted.

[MeoTwister5]

I would have to agree. If there really is a Kinzo-Taiwan connection, it would have to be in his travels rather than him being born there. Granted there were Japanese living there at that point, but given the distance I find it highly unlikely that the Ushiromiya's would tap a family member who lives in such a distant island for the task of rebuilding.

That said, if we seriously had to make the "homeland" connection, does the conecpt have to stritcly apply to Kinzo's homeland?

During one of my bouts with the epitaph I was asking myself "Couldn't homeland refer to the homeland of the gold and not a specific person?" I was toying with the idea that the homeland issue was NOT the one of a person's origin, rather maybe the gold's origin. Again, if there is a homeland-Taiwan connection, it seems more likely that it's with the gold rather than Kinzo, and is fairly supported by having gold mines on the island.

[ijriims]

Aceca has a very strong Taiwan connotation, it is not just a food, but also has its cultural meaning in it.

To Westerners, aceca may only be a food, but to a person who visits Taiwan forums sometimes, I see that aceca is used in many phrases by Taiwaneses.

When you say Taiwan, I may not think about aceca, but when you say aceca, I must think of Taiwan.

If you can read Chinese, I would advise you to read this wiki article "http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E6%AA%B3%E6%A6%94"

Or just read this aceca related wiki article "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betel_nut_beauty"

[MeoTwister5]

Like I said it depends on the person. On all the times I've been to Taiwan, Taipei and Taichong specifically, I've never actually eaten it, but I've eaten stinky tofu a lot (smells horrible as the name implies, but tastes great).

[ijriims]

Stinky tofu?

Hong Kong's is famous as well, maybe if you come, you should try some to compare.


Aceca is not that popular now, but it must be true in the past. Because it was an important agricultural product when Taiwan had not developed so prosperously before 80s, usually it were those grassroot people chewed them much.

[MeoTwister5]

I don't like HK anymore. Haven't been there in 5 years but last time I was there it was crowded as heck and so was the MTR (or whatever you call it now lol).

Back on Topic:

Regarding the gold issue, Taiwan/Formosa is known for it's natural resources and agriculture. AFAIK gold isn't something you get to really mine in Japan so I have reservations that Kinzo would have gotten the gold from a mainland Japanese source. I find it likely that the gold came from an outside source but still a place that Japan has control/influence over, and to me the places would either be Taiwan/Formosa or Japan-controlled areas of China, pre-WWII.

Also consider the claim that Beatrice gave it to him. Even if we don't assume a specific person named Beatrice we can consider a Westerner of probably European descent having some influence over Kinzo's acquisition of the gold. The British and the Portugese had a big influence over areas of southern China and the Japanese islands so, if we were to disregard the Japanese mainland, southern China would be the area. Specific places would be Formosa, HK and Macau. On the other hand, HK and Macau were not under Japanese control until WWII.

[Dlanor A. Knox]

Couldnt the etitaph not being about Kinzo but about Beato?
I mean, the etitaph stands under Beato's painting and it is for Beato's gold.

not only that but also the:

"My beloved homeland" & "Praise my name"

is weird, because the person/thing it is about is about his/hers/its homeland & his/her/its name

[Dlanor .A. Nox]

The problem with that is the fact we have little to no clue about Beatrice, and what's true and what's false. Granted that's the same thing with Kinzo however we get more hints with Kinzo. It was an epitaph about Kinzo for Beatrice. At least that's what I think. The end is what gives it for me. "Sleep peacefully, my most beloved witch, Beatrice."

[Dlanor A. Knox]

Ooooh... yeah forgot about that part
Gome~

[Golden Witch Drugs]

Originally Posted by Dlanor .A. Nox

The problem with that is the fact we have little to no clue about Beatrice, and what's true and what's false. Granted that's the same thing with Kinzo however we get more hints with Kinzo. It was an epitaph about Kinzo for Beatrice. At least that's what I think. The end is what gives it for me. "Sleep peacefully, my most beloved witch, Beatrice."

Wouldn't this mean the epitaph is written in two persons perspective? "Praise my name on high" is definitly Beatrice's name, but if it is written by Kinzo shouldn't it more have been "Praise the name on high" or something similar to that. Wouldn't that mean all the twilights are written in Beatrice?

[Dlanor A. Knox]

or all Twilights are written in the location's "vieuw"

[chounokoe]

This is not exactly aiming towards the location of the goal, but I thought I'd still write it, just because I found it important.

Originally Posted by Golden Witch Drugs

Wouldn't this mean the epitaph is written in two persons perspective? "Praise my name on high" is definitly Beatrice's name, but if it is written by Kinzo shouldn't it more have been "Praise the name on high" or something similar to that. Wouldn't that mean all the twilights are written in Beatrice?

That's one of the big problems, the fact that the epitaph can be divided in portions regarding the content but also regarding the narrative perspective.
Considering this, the question remains, if the witch is not yet revived (because 第九の晩に、魔女は蘇り) then who is telling this epitaph and whose name is supposed to be praised (我が名を讃えよ)?
It is of course possible to talk about yourself in third person in Japanese and it sounds less artificial than in other languages, but still I think there is a narrative break in the epitaph that could prove important.

If we suppose that there is NO narrative break in the epitaph, then the person whose name is supposed to be praised and the person who is talking about the beloved hometown are one and the same.
If we suppose that Kinzo wrote it, people are supposed to praise Kinzo's name...but how is that supposed to work?
If it was Beatrice who wrote it, it would imply that she is not the witch who will bestow the 4 treasures upon the wanderer...or she is not yet.

This brings me again to the one part that bugged me the most about the epitaph.
魔女は賢者を讃え、四つの宝を授けるだろう。<-> 一つは、魔女を永遠に眠りにつかせよう。
Why is it a treasure to the wise man to put the witch to sleep for eternity? Especially after he went through so much trouble to gain the key and raise her....EXCEPT the arrival of the witch is not a step towards the golden land but a hurdle that has to be crossed.
Assuming it is not the goal to raise the witch, but to open the door to the golden land and the witch being revived is something that can happen absolutely indipendent from that.

Then what is the authorX trying to hint at when he says that 'the witch is revived'? To me it starts sounding more like a warning.

Another thing...who says that the person holding the key (鍵を手にせし者) and the wise man (賢者) have to be the same person?
Maybe the epitaph is at the same time a map, but also a warning? The person who is holding the key and seeking to open the doors to the golden land is maybe forced to travel under the rules stated below...he will make the witch's revival happen and kill everyone in the process.
Yet the wise man is being bestowed with the 4 treasures by the witch and is able to assure that the witch is never awakened again.

This would leave the question...what is the witch?