AnimeSuki Forums

ditn · 2010-09-24, 05:17

Somehow ill try to find them

I am at episode 16 for the moment and its getting good now.
Good thing i can't watch alot of episodes at a time or i would watch way to much

ditn · 2010-10-26, 12:16

Well im at episode 80 and i like it.
Maybe just a bit more baseball

Ansalem · 2010-11-25, 04:31

Well, that took me a while. It's a fairly long series and I've been busy with school again, but I also had a hard time getting into the show, even though I eagerly awaited each episode of Cross Game and sped through H2 fairly quickly.

For me, I felt the pacing of the episodes was just a little bit too slow. I can appreciate slow pacing for atmosphere and character develop, but there were times when it just seemed to drag for no particular reason. I suppose the best example I can think of this was when the shortstop wanted to quit the team. Several episodes dealt with this storyline with virtually no actually development. The team kept asking what was wrong and he kept running away from them until it finally came out, at which point the conflict was almost immediately resolved. There seemed to be a fair number of times when it just seemed like the show was being slow simply for the sake of being slow. Not always, but sometimes. The pacing as the show drew to a close was considerably better with fairly dramatic but not overly extended progress through the tournament.

I also felt a bit upset with the plotline involving the rival Meisei pitcher Yoshida. His transition from annoying wet-behind the ears rookie to obsessed self-proclaimed rival of Tatsuya was a decent enough, but when it builds to a climax he disappears without any preamble. In just a 20 second or so scene, the teacher explains his family is moving, and then he is gone and forgotten, until his predictable reappearance in the finals. It wasn't a terrible idea, but the execution felt lacking.

There was also very little in the way of any believable romantic tension. After (and probably even before) Kazuya died, I had pretty much zero belief that Minami would end up with anyone but Tatsuya. Tatsuya obviously has virtually no interest in the female Nitta, despite her constant attempts. Throughout the show, Minami shows far too much undestanding of Tatsuya's character for her to get more than a little huffed for a day after coming in during an awkward moment for Tatsuya in one of Yuka's schemes. Minami is too faithful to be realistically tempted by the male Nitta, especially without any believable period of being upset with Tatsuya. Over and over it is laid out that she knows Tatsuya so well to realize nothing is really going on between Yuka and him, so she has no driving moment to bring her closer than friends with Nitta. I certainly like the pairing that happened in the end, but more convincing tension throughout the series would have made it all the more rewarding in the end.

There was also the complete irresponsibility of virtually every adult character in the series. Sure, the principal doesn't want to upset the coach while he's in the hospital, but it's really unrealistic that he wouldn't take care of the situation himself, especially after he has some assistant find out about Kawashiba's behavior. It also made me sad that Minami didn't have the rocks to tell the principal she would quit the gymnastics teams unless he took some action, since that was consistently a huge concern of his. The Uesugi's also showed a disturbing lack of interest in Tatsuya, even after Kazuya was gone and Tatsuya was actually making something of himself. They did not even seem to know what was happening in the tournament first hand until Meisei had almost progressed to winning. The one adult who I felt was actually fairly responsible and as a result more likable was Minami's father. His insight about Tatsuya near the end of the series and the following discussions with Minami and then Tatsuya were very well done.

There could have also been much more meaningful character development for secondary characters. It was a 101 episode show, yet at the end of the show only Tatsuya and Koutarou had any meaningful and distinctive characters out the entire baseball team (since the cool captain graduated, Yoshida moved, and wimpy kid stopped playing and became a full-time scout). Sure, they were around and they had names and even spoke lines, but there was very little to distinguish them as individuals. It would have been nice if in all that time more characters could have been sketched out a little more colorfully.

I seem to have made a very long negative rant about a show for which I actually had a pretty positive impression. It was entertaining throughout even if it felt a bit slow, awkward, or contrived at points. I also felt it really hit its stride around the last twenty episodes. There were particular parts that seemed really well done. I liked Minami's father advising the kids. Nishimura, the curveball pitcher, had a good exit from the tournament and resulting scene with Tatsuya. I think the scene at the graveyard was nice as well. The plot development in the tournament felt well done. Overall, I think that the rougher elements of this show were well ironed out by the time Cross Game came around while maintaining all the parts of Touch that made it enjoyable. Hopefully someone will wander along and read this fairly long post and maybe have some comment. ^^

Also, I forgot to mention that I love the amazing OST.

Theowne · 2010-11-26, 09:02

Ansalem, you do mention one point which did stay in my mind after first completing the series, and that is with regards to romantic tension and conflict. This might be a result of my tendency to make assumptions about stories - but I do think the story would have been a little more interesting had Minami actually been in love with Kazuya, with the rest of the story focusing on her gradually opening up to and doing the same for Tatsuya. Particularly in a story of this nature (I refer to the "twist" which occurs around a third of the way through, as well as the idea of "lazy" Tatsuya making a name for himself), that seems like a natural story progression and one that is rife with dramatic and storytelling possibilities.

With that in mind, making it quite obvious that Minami was in love with Tatsuya all along, even before the "event", did tend to take some air of out it. That's how I feel when revisiting my memories of the show. I also feel it may have provided more in the way of tension towards the end, when Tatsuya reconciles his feelings for Minami with his guilt/memory, had that been the case.

On the other hand, I personally preferred the lack of jealousy and triangles towards the end of the series, with regards to Nitta and Yuka. Although it may have been less interesting in terms of plot development, I thought it was refreshing and more realistic than being tempted - when it comes to these two, at least. This isn't true for every anime series, but I just could not envision it happening here in a believable way.

Spoiler for the sequel movie:

Overall, my own thoughts on this show (which I hope to revisit next summer) are somewhat akin to yours - charming, but admittedly with a fair bit of clumsiness in execution. You have mentioned some of my favourite moments already, so all I can do is uselessly repeat them: the discussion between Tatsuya and Minami's father, and the final scene between Nishimura and Tatsuya (this one might be my favourite).

On the topic of Cross Game , which I also should revisit sometime, I think it's clear that Adachi ironed out of a lot of his kinks and delivered a rendition of a fairly similar story with fairly similar characters in a more natural, well-written and well-paced manner. Yet somehow, there's something endearing about Touch that still makes me like it just a little bit more, but perhaps that's simply because I saw it first.

Ansalem · 2010-11-26, 10:12

Theowne, you have an interesting idea about how the romantic story could have been. Perhaps Minami having been in love with Kazuya coupled with a slightly more convincing romantic rival for Tatsuya in Nitta for after that point may have worked well. I suppose you also have a point about the romance feeling somewhat refreshing precisely because it was so clear cut. However, Adachi spends so much of the show's time with unlikely rivals for both romantic leads (Nitta, Yuka, and even Nishimura with his less-than-cool attempts) for what in essence was a very undramatic progression. If we are constantly going to be watching this sort of romantic back-and-forth, it would be more interesting to have some kind of doubt of how things were to turn out. The problem was how firmly the narration establishes Minami's affections for Tatsuya. If it had been spelled out less thoroughly, it might have been more believable an idea that she might fall for Nitta.

There is certainly a very strong factor in regards to favoritism found in the order one watches shows, so I can certainly understand your preference in Touch over Cross Game as they are such similar works. Finishing makes me wish H2 had a complete adaptation instead of halting abruptly in the middle of the story. I still have to work on finishing that manga.

tugatosmk · 2010-12-26, 18:50

I just wanted to thank Central Anime for their "improved" first episodes version pack release on Christmas Day. It sure felt t like a present for me, many thanks!

fukarming · 2010-12-26, 19:11

The biggest romantic tensions between Minami and Tatsuya is not about the Nitta siblings. The tensions is about the dead Katsuya. Since he is dead there is nothing Minami and Tatsuya can do - and that is where the tension coming from. The Nitta sibling is emphasizing that point.

The one thing I dislike Touch is how they portrait Kashiwaba. Even he is touched by the team and help them in the end, it didn't change the fact that he becomes the coach to make the team suffer - the clear example is when Kashiwaba install the wimpy kid to be a pitcher, Meisei is lucky not to lose that match. When the whole team thanks Kashiwaba I feel like I want to puke - someone killed my whole family and because of the trauma, I work hard and get a noble prize. Should I thank the murderer for my noble prize?

ragnarokr · 2010-12-30, 21:44

Spoiler tags guys, spoiler tags.

Xellos-_^ · 2011-01-04, 20:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by ragnarokr

Spoiler tags guys, spoiler tags.

is there actually any need? this is over 30 yrs old.

i am re-watching this currently and when i got the part when Kazuya die. i thought too bad there were no bss back then, the internet forum would have exploded with Kazuya's death.

ragnarokr · 2011-01-05, 19:32

Of course there's need for that. People keep coming and going, spoiler tags are important even more these days that young (and old) fellows learned of Adachi greatness through Cross Game.
Cross game actually bursted the interest of people for Touch.

Xellos, Your comment is the king of the spoiler comments, I'll not comment on your unreasonable sarcasm. You should at least be considerate to other people.
Do you really believe that the series doesn't bring new watchers and curious lurkers into this forum?

BetoJR · 2011-01-05, 22:33

Honestly, spoiler tags for classics are a bit much. IMHO, of course.

Guardian Enzo · 2011-01-06, 00:24

Considering that Touch is built entirely around the spoiler, and that it's so old that it's almost new again in that most youngsters won't have seen or read it, I think spoiler tags are well called for here.

ragnarokr · 2011-01-06, 09:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by BetoJR

Honestly, spoiler tags for classics are a bit much. IMHO, of course.

Is there really a difference to new or old series when it come to spoilers?

Being old makes it worthless? Or is it that everyone has already watched it?

We should be aware of spoilers only on new series?

I honestly don't understand this reasoning,

care to develop?

Theowne · 2011-01-06, 12:37

Spoiler tags for say, Dragonball, might be a bit much, but I think it's better to be safe with Touch considering it's a little known series and there are some newcomers coming off of Cross Game. Hence why I tried to be a little safe when describing major events (though not enough, now that I reread it).

I think that's enough discussion on spoiler tags for now...I keep getting excited when I see that the "Touch" thread has a new post, and then discover it's just a meta-discussion on spoilers.

Xellos-_^ · 2011-01-06, 12:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Theowne

Spoiler tags for say, Dragonball, might be a bit much, but I think it's better to be safe with Touch considering it's a little known series and there are some newcomers coming off of Cross Game. Hence why I tried to be a little safe when describing major events (though not enough, now that I reread it).

I think that's enough discussion on spoiler tags for now...I keep getting excited when I see that the "Touch" thread has a new post, and then discover it's just a meta-discussion on spoilers.

I wouldn't call Touch a little know series, it is one of the great classic in anime.

BetoJR · 2011-01-06, 14:19

Spoiler tags shouldn't be okay for some series and not for others.

Touch is a classic. Classics shouldn't really be treated as something that could be spoiled. It's practically the same as someone complaining about a joke made at the expense of the "I'm your father" line and saying they didn't know it was Darth Vader saying it to Luke. Or that Jesus dies at the cross. IMHO, it's ludicrous. Your mileage may vary, tho.

ragnarokr · 2011-01-06, 19:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

Considering that Touch is built entirely around the spoiler

This says it all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Theowne

I think that's enough discussion on spoiler tags for now

I'll drop it here too.
Even though there's incredibly wrong thinking around here, that's too bad for the newcomers.

BetoJR · 2011-01-06, 19:26

Yes, some very wrong thinking going on, alright. Oh, well...

Shiroth · 2011-01-06, 20:38

I'm interested in checking out Touch. Would you guys say i should go with the anime, or manga? If i start with the anime and complete it, chances are i'll go with the manga after it, though i just want to know if the anime is a complete adaptation of the manga. Ending and all.

Guardian Enzo · 2011-01-06, 20:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shiroth

I'm interested in checking out Touch. Would you guys say i should go with the anime, or manga? If i start with the anime and complete it, chances are i'll go with the manga after it, though i just want to know if the anime is a complete adaptation of the manga. Ending and all.

The anime is pretty complete, but I would go with the manga first. For me, the visuals of the anime are so dated that it presents a slight distraction. The manga looks like, well - Adachi.

2010-11-25, 04:31	Link #123
Ansalem Speaker Join Date: Sep 2009	Well, that took me a while. It's a fairly long series and I've been busy with school again, but I also had a hard time getting into the show, even though I eagerly awaited each episode of Cross Game and sped through H2 fairly quickly. For me, I felt the pacing of the episodes was just a little bit too slow. I can appreciate slow pacing for atmosphere and character develop, but there were times when it just seemed to drag for no particular reason. I suppose the best example I can think of this was when the shortstop wanted to quit the team. Several episodes dealt with this storyline with virtually no actually development. The team kept asking what was wrong and he kept running away from them until it finally came out, at which point the conflict was almost immediately resolved. There seemed to be a fair number of times when it just seemed like the show was being slow simply for the sake of being slow. Not always, but sometimes. The pacing as the show drew to a close was considerably better with fairly dramatic but not overly extended progress through the tournament. I also felt a bit upset with the plotline involving the rival Meisei pitcher Yoshida. His transition from annoying wet-behind the ears rookie to obsessed self-proclaimed rival of Tatsuya was a decent enough, but when it builds to a climax he disappears without any preamble. In just a 20 second or so scene, the teacher explains his family is moving, and then he is gone and forgotten, until his predictable reappearance in the finals. It wasn't a terrible idea, but the execution felt lacking. There was also very little in the way of any believable romantic tension. After (and probably even before) Kazuya died, I had pretty much zero belief that Minami would end up with anyone but Tatsuya. Tatsuya obviously has virtually no interest in the female Nitta, despite her constant attempts. Throughout the show, Minami shows far too much undestanding of Tatsuya's character for her to get more than a little huffed for a day after coming in during an awkward moment for Tatsuya in one of Yuka's schemes. Minami is too faithful to be realistically tempted by the male Nitta, especially without any believable period of being upset with Tatsuya. Over and over it is laid out that she knows Tatsuya so well to realize nothing is really going on between Yuka and him, so she has no driving moment to bring her closer than friends with Nitta. I certainly like the pairing that happened in the end, but more convincing tension throughout the series would have made it all the more rewarding in the end. There was also the complete irresponsibility of virtually every adult character in the series. Sure, the principal doesn't want to upset the coach while he's in the hospital, but it's really unrealistic that he wouldn't take care of the situation himself, especially after he has some assistant find out about Kawashiba's behavior. It also made me sad that Minami didn't have the rocks to tell the principal she would quit the gymnastics teams unless he took some action, since that was consistently a huge concern of his. The Uesugi's also showed a disturbing lack of interest in Tatsuya, even after Kazuya was gone and Tatsuya was actually making something of himself. They did not even seem to know what was happening in the tournament first hand until Meisei had almost progressed to winning. The one adult who I felt was actually fairly responsible and as a result more likable was Minami's father. His insight about Tatsuya near the end of the series and the following discussions with Minami and then Tatsuya were very well done. There could have also been much more meaningful character development for secondary characters. It was a 101 episode show, yet at the end of the show only Tatsuya and Koutarou had any meaningful and distinctive characters out the entire baseball team (since the cool captain graduated, Yoshida moved, and wimpy kid stopped playing and became a full-time scout). Sure, they were around and they had names and even spoke lines, but there was very little to distinguish them as individuals. It would have been nice if in all that time more characters could have been sketched out a little more colorfully. I seem to have made a very long negative rant about a show for which I actually had a pretty positive impression. It was entertaining throughout even if it felt a bit slow, awkward, or contrived at points. I also felt it really hit its stride around the last twenty episodes. There were particular parts that seemed really well done. I liked Minami's father advising the kids. Nishimura, the curveball pitcher, had a good exit from the tournament and resulting scene with Tatsuya. I think the scene at the graveyard was nice as well. The plot development in the tournament felt well done. Overall, I think that the rougher elements of this show were well ironed out by the time Cross Game came around while maintaining all the parts of Touch that made it enjoyable. Hopefully someone will wander along and read this fairly long post and maybe have some comment. ^^ Also, I forgot to mention that I love the amazing OST. __________________

2010-11-26, 09:02	Link #124
Theowne 耳をすませば Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Toronto, Canada Age: 34	Ansalem, you do mention one point which did stay in my mind after first completing the series, and that is with regards to romantic tension and conflict. This might be a result of my tendency to make assumptions about stories - but I do think the story would have been a little more interesting had Minami actually been in love with Kazuya, with the rest of the story focusing on her gradually opening up to and doing the same for Tatsuya. Particularly in a story of this nature (I refer to the "twist" which occurs around a third of the way through, as well as the idea of "lazy" Tatsuya making a name for himself), that seems like a natural story progression and one that is rife with dramatic and storytelling possibilities. With that in mind, making it quite obvious that Minami was in love with Tatsuya all along, even before the "event", did tend to take some air of out it. That's how I feel when revisiting my memories of the show. I also feel it may have provided more in the way of tension towards the end, when Tatsuya reconciles his feelings for Minami with his guilt/memory, had that been the case. On the other hand, I personally preferred the lack of jealousy and triangles towards the end of the series, with regards to Nitta and Yuka. Although it may have been less interesting in terms of plot development, I thought it was refreshing and more realistic than being tempted - when it comes to these two, at least. This isn't true for every anime series, but I just could not envision it happening here in a believable way. Spoiler for the sequel movie: In fact, this is why I did not like the first movie sequel - the conflict simply felt forced. Overall, my own thoughts on this show (which I hope to revisit next summer) are somewhat akin to yours - charming, but admittedly with a fair bit of clumsiness in execution. You have mentioned some of my favourite moments already, so all I can do is uselessly repeat them: the discussion between Tatsuya and Minami's father, and the final scene between Nishimura and Tatsuya (this one might be my favourite). On the topic of Cross Game , which I also should revisit sometime, I think it's clear that Adachi ironed out of a lot of his kinks and delivered a rendition of a fairly similar story with fairly similar characters in a more natural, well-written and well-paced manner. Yet somehow, there's something endearing about Touch that still makes me like it just a little bit more, but perhaps that's simply because I saw it first. __________________ My Site - Reviews collection, Sheet music, and etc. Anime reviews/blog, piano arrangements, Studio Ghibli.. Last edited by Theowne; 2011-01-06 at 12:38.

2010-11-26, 10:12	Link #125
Ansalem Speaker Join Date: Sep 2009	Theowne, you have an interesting idea about how the romantic story could have been. Perhaps Minami having been in love with Kazuya coupled with a slightly more convincing romantic rival for Tatsuya in Nitta for after that point may have worked well. I suppose you also have a point about the romance feeling somewhat refreshing precisely because it was so clear cut. However, Adachi spends so much of the show's time with unlikely rivals for both romantic leads (Nitta, Yuka, and even Nishimura with his less-than-cool attempts) for what in essence was a very undramatic progression. If we are constantly going to be watching this sort of romantic back-and-forth, it would be more interesting to have some kind of doubt of how things were to turn out. The problem was how firmly the narration establishes Minami's affections for Tatsuya. If it had been spelled out less thoroughly, it might have been more believable an idea that she might fall for Nitta. There is certainly a very strong factor in regards to favoritism found in the order one watches shows, so I can certainly understand your preference in Touch over Cross Game as they are such similar works. Finishing makes me wish H2 had a complete adaptation instead of halting abruptly in the middle of the story. I still have to work on finishing that manga. __________________

2010-12-26, 18:50	Link #126
tugatosmk 1982 tuga Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Portugal	I just wanted to thank Central Anime for their "improved" first episodes version pack release on Christmas Day. It sure felt t like a present for me, many thanks! __________________ "Nous dirigeons vers un système planétaire inconnu..."

2010-12-26, 19:11	Link #127
fukarming Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2009	The biggest romantic tensions between Minami and Tatsuya is not about the Nitta siblings. The tensions is about the dead Katsuya. Since he is dead there is nothing Minami and Tatsuya can do - and that is where the tension coming from. The Nitta sibling is emphasizing that point. The one thing I dislike Touch is how they portrait Kashiwaba. Even he is touched by the team and help them in the end, it didn't change the fact that he becomes the coach to make the team suffer - the clear example is when Kashiwaba install the wimpy kid to be a pitcher, Meisei is lucky not to lose that match. When the whole team thanks Kashiwaba I feel like I want to puke - someone killed my whole family and because of the trauma, I work hard and get a noble prize. Should I thank the murderer for my noble prize? __________________ They came first for sharks fin,I didn't speak up because I don't eat sharks fin. Then they came for foie gras,I didn't speak up because I don't eat foie gras. Then they came for Toro (bluefin tuna) sushi,I didn't speak up because I don't eat sushi. Then they came for me and force me to be a vegan by that time no one was left to speak up.

2010-09-24, 05:17	Link #121
ditn Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Belgium	Somehow ill try to find them I am at episode 16 for the moment and its getting good now. Good thing i can't watch alot of episodes at a time or i would watch way to much

2010-10-26, 12:16	Link #122
ditn Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Belgium	Well im at episode 80 and i like it. Maybe just a bit more baseball

2010-12-30, 21:44	Link #128
ragnarokr The Rare Visitor Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Portugal Age: 42	Spoiler tags guys, spoiler tags. __________________ Old School Anime Club

2011-01-05, 19:32	Link #130
ragnarokr The Rare Visitor Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Portugal Age: 42	Of course there's need for that. People keep coming and going, spoiler tags are important even more these days that young (and old) fellows learned of Adachi greatness through Cross Game. Cross game actually bursted the interest of people for Touch. Xellos, Your comment is the king of the spoiler comments, I'll not comment on your unreasonable sarcasm. You should at least be considerate to other people. Do you really believe that the series doesn't bring new watchers and curious lurkers into this forum? __________________ Old School Anime Club

2011-01-06, 12:37	Link #134
Theowne 耳をすませば Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Toronto, Canada Age: 34	Spoiler tags for say, Dragonball, might be a bit much, but I think it's better to be safe with Touch considering it's a little known series and there are some newcomers coming off of Cross Game. Hence why I tried to be a little safe when describing major events (though not enough, now that I reread it). I think that's enough discussion on spoiler tags for now...I keep getting excited when I see that the "Touch" thread has a new post, and then discover it's just a meta-discussion on spoilers. __________________ My Site - Reviews collection, Sheet music, and etc. Anime reviews/blog, piano arrangements, Studio Ghibli..

2011-01-06, 20:38	Link #139
Shiroth Beautiful fighter. Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: England, UK Age: 37	I'm interested in checking out Touch. Would you guys say i should go with the anime, or manga? If i start with the anime and complete it, chances are i'll go with the manga after it, though i just want to know if the anime is a complete adaptation of the manga. Ending and all. __________________ MyAnimeList Twitter