Gundam Seed/Seed Destiny General Discussion Thread

[Mad Pierrot]

Originally Posted by Dernhelm

i thought this was very obvious in Destiny but i guess not.

I used to think he was a bit more mature in Destiny since he was more emotionally stable even when fighting but I guess it counts like a parallel to Amuro's state in Zeta where he is afraid of going back to space due to his fear of sensing Lalah. In Kira's case, the scene where I sense trauma the most in Destiny was when he believing Rey was Rau. Also, he just staying in the orphanage in the first episode kinda felt like he was still in shock. Still, from another interview I read, Kira subtly develops in Destiny when he starts becoming more active in battles like when he angers Shinn in Orb. The scene where he points his gun towards Durandal also marked the transformation of a more active fighter according to Fukuda as later explored when he makes peace with Shinn and joins ZAFT to work together.

[cyberdemon]

Looks like tickets are going on sale in the us. Those near me give a may 7th at earliest

[Renegade334]

Mobile Suit Gundam SEED Freedom novel by Liu Goto, vol.02 Ch.04 summary and tidbits:

TL;DR…

 

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Points of interest:
- Not just Requiem and Messiah, but also Artemis, now? Jesus H. Christ.
- Confirms theory that Lacus' mother was a willing participant in the Accord program.
- Shows that everything must always go back to Mendel (which is no surprise given that Durandal hatched his Destiny Plan there or at least had some big ties with Mendel researchers as seen in SEED Destiny).

[quagmire]

The novel is quickly turning this plot into a Michael Bay Transformers level of mess…..

[JagdPanther]

Originally Posted by quagmire

The novel is quickly turning this plot into a Michael Bay Transformers level of mess…..

This definitely jumped the shark a while ago, but I am so fascinated by it.

[John117xCortana]

It felt very nostalgic watching them again, and the animation quality was superb!

Watching the characterization of Kira in this movie...I saw the Kira in the original SEED here than the 'Jesus' Yamato of DESTINY.

Overall, it was worth waiting two months just to watch this in the cinema.

They had to squeeze some to fit in the movie though, I felt that some of the details could have been explored more in an episode series rather than a movie.

[Mad Pierrot]

They say the climax of this movie is like a mix between the cheesy endings of G Gundam and Cross Ange. Guess Kira and Lacus really steal the spotlight

[John117xCortana]

Originally Posted by Mad Pierrot

They say the climax of this movie is like a mix between the cheesy endings of G Gundam and Cross Ange. Guess Kira and Lacus really steal the spotlight

A little, but I didn't hate it.

[Mad Pierrot]

Been reading summaries of the movie which don't go that overthetop when comparing it to the novel.

Spoiler for differences:

The idea of the Kira and Shinn becoming partners leads to a really cool scene involving their mobile suits. The whole Accord thing seems to be just an excuse to use the trope of the Cyber Newtype from the UC timeline on Kira and turn into him a traitor when damaging his mind. I don't understand how it works but Kira loses control of his own body and is trashed by enemy forces. I don't understand if Fukuda wanted to make Kira far weaker or just implement Lacus more into the story as Kira is still unable to pilot the Strike Freedom and Lacus assists him kinda like the G Gundam finale with even similar dialogues.

[Renegade334]

Summary and other tidbits of Mobile Suit Gundam SEED Freedom official novel, vol.02 ch.05, by Liu Goto:

TL;DR…

 

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Additional notes:
- The name of the Strike Rouge's and Z'Gok's backpack is Cavalier. Not sure whether "Aifrid" is a callsign or part of the full model's name (as in, Cavalier Aifrid).
- Amazing Z'Gok. AMAZING Z'GOK. A-amaaaziiing Z'goook, how sweeeeet the sooound... Seriously Fukuda I can't even anymore
- In retrospect, the names Mighty Strike Freedom and Proud Defender don't feel quite that ridiculous or cringe-inducing anymore.
- "A failed creation unfit to be an Accord"; it's not explicitly stating Kira was designed to be an Accord, only that Kira is something else that could have become a higher being like an Accord or close to that. Unless it's something an Ultimate Coordinator can...evolve into? No further details on this - TBH, this reeks of hasty writing.
- Ch.06 is apparently already translated and in the editing process, but happens to be twice as long as any of the preceding chapters. It is followed by an epilogue and an afterword. Next post of mine will therefore be twice as long as normal. Oh, Lawd...hav' mersayy...!

Apologies if you find misspellings and other weird turns of phrase here and there. Kinda tired and juggling multiple tasks at the same time while dealing with a whacked-out sleep cycle.

[JagdPanther]

I don't know how you have had the patience to type this all out. My Goodness.

Thanks again.

[cyberdemon]

Watching Gundam Seed again to lead up to the movie release in the us. What is the point of the desert arc? The resistance is pointless. Waltfeld would’ve gladly negotiated with them for good terms for both sides. I’d understand if he was a tyrant but Waltfeld tried minimizing damages and only because they were fighting him. They view both ZAFT and the EA in equal terms but why not negotiate?

[Mad Pierrot]

Originally Posted by cyberdemon

Watching Gundam Seed again to lead up to the movie release in the us. What is the point of the desert arc? The resistance is pointless. Waltfeld would’ve gladly negotiated with them for good terms for both sides. I’d understand if he was a tyrant but Waltfeld tried minimizing damages and only because they were fighting him. They view both ZAFT and the EA in equal terms but why not negotiate?

They maybe wanted an excuse to fight in the desert like the first Gundam did with Ramba Ral

Then again Ramba went full suicide.

Also, I recommend checking those new Fukuda interviews. In one he tells Hoshi (Kira)

Spoiler for spoiler:

Morosawa didn't see herself ending SEED until having scenes where the Archangel is destroyed and have Kira be punched to feel like other Gundam characters. That kinda explains why Athrun goes so far in the movie to make him recover. Additionally, Kira and Lacus have a bike hobby in the movie because Fukuda was a fan of bikes when he was younger as he couldn't afford cars. He was also a fan of some sort of superhero manga who always drivesa bike. This further led to SEED Freedom having a crossover with the Honda bikes.

[Renegade334]

Summary and tidbits of Mobile Suit Gundam SEED Freedom official novel by Liu Goto, vol.02 ch.06 + epilogue + afterword.

*grumbles* Fina-effing-lly. *glances at the length of ch.06* Oh sweet Jesus have mercy--

You know what? I'll divide it into at least five parts for better legibility.

TL;DR…

 

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Personal notes:
- You get a Mirage Colloid, you get a Mirage Colloid, everyone gets a Mirage Colloid!
- It is stated that the Zeus Silhouette originally had a positron gun, but the weapon used by Mu to destroy the colony deflector appears to be a railgun.
- Translator can't decide whether Foundation's new armor technology is called Femto-tech or Femtech (which is...something else altogether and might belong more in Cross Ange than Gundam SEED?).
- Amazing Z'Gok is still amazing. On the inside and on the outside, too, I suppose.
- Orphee calls Kira "Dr Hibiki's reject"...is there any evidence in the extended or apocryphal SEED material that confirms Ulen Hibiki viewed Kira or the Ultimate Coordinator project a failure...or is this just mudslinging?
- Now it sounds like Lacus' mother merely commissioned Aura to do the gene editing for her child (thus allowing Aura to turn her into an Accord as part of her own research), but threw a wrench in the plans by taking the baby back to PLANT shortly after birth.
- Mind melding?
- The Disruptor almost sounds like a blend of neutron jammer tech, monomolecular cutter [trope] and mere antiparticle weaponry.
- The ring floating in space is, in the end, not Orphee's, but Lacus'. I was wrong on that part.
- The epilogue does lay the groundwork for more SEED series, but still constitutes a good way for both Lacus and Kira to leave the spotlight, Shiro and Aina style. Fukuda did say he thinks the two of them would "never retire", though.

I'll edit this post should I find some oddities. I've been multitasking and some errors might've slipped in while I thought - and failed to do it! - about rereading my work.


Anyway...RIP keyboard and fingers. And me too. *dies*

[JagdPanther]

Originally Posted by Renegade334

Summary and tidbits of Mobile Suit Gundam SEED Freedom official novel by Liu Goto, vol.02 ch.06 + epilogue + afterword.

*grumbles* Fina-effing-lly. *glances at the length of ch.06* Oh sweet Jesus have mercy--

You know what? I'll divide it into at least five parts for better legibility.

TL;DR…

 

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

Personal notes:
- It is stated that the Zeus Silhouette originally had a positron gun, but the weapon used by Mu to destroy the colony deflector appears to be a railgun.
- Translator can't decide whether Foundation's new armor technology is called Femto-tech or Femtech (which is...something else altogether and might belong more in Cross Ange than Gundam SEED?).
- Amazing Z'Gok is still amazing. On the inside and on the outside, too, I suppose.
- Orphee calls Kira "Dr Hibiki's reject"...is there any evidence in the extended or apocryphal SEED material that confirms Ulen Hibiki viewed Kira or the Ultimate Coordinator project a failure...or is this just mudslinging?
- Now it sounds like Lacus' mother merely commissioned Aura to do the gene editing for her child (thus allowing Aura to turn her into an Accord as part of her own research), but threw a wrench in the plans by taking the baby back to PLANT shortly after birth.
- Mind melding?
- The Disruptor almost sounds like a blend of neutron jammer tech and mere antiparticle weaponry.
- The ring floating in space is, in the end, not Orphee's, but Lacus'. I was wrong on that part.
- The epilogue does lay the groundwork for more SEED series, but still constitutes a good way for both Lacus and Kira to leave the spotlight. Fukuda did say he thinks the two of them would "never retire", though.

I'll edit this post should I find some oddities. I've been multitasking and some errors might've slipped in while I thought - and failed to do it! - about rereading my work.


Anyway...RIP keyboard and fingers. And me too. *dies*

Tremendous work on all of this!

[aeriolewinters]

@JagdPanther:
Orphee and the other Accords calling Kira a failure seems to be akin to someone like Wendy Thomas saying that a Whopper isn't a real burger.

[cyberdemon]

Originally Posted by aeriolewinters

@JagdPanther:
Orphee and the other Accords calling Kira a failure seems to be akin to someone like Wendy Thomas saying that a Whopper isn't a real burger.

He’s neither trained nor will want to try. He’s had Moments like the one after Flays death that might show it’s possible. Orphee certainly wouldn’t want him to either. They could just be playing on his insecurities to keep him from unlocking it. He’d be even more dangerous to their plans if he did. Potential sequels could play on this.

[Renegade334]

A big theme from the movie is genetic predetermination. The Accords literally built their entire identity around that - being at the top of the food chain and living up to it and everything it entails, such as being the natural choice for assuming leadership of Humankind. The second you don't fulfill that purpose or somehow prove yourself incapable of assuming this profound duty, your entire worth drops to zero. Ingrid finds that out the hard way: by failing to keep Lacus in Foundation's hands, she becomes an outcast almost instantly.

One could theorize that the Accords' virulently negative opinion of Kira stems from him not fully living up to his nature of Ultimate Coordinator and thus coming out as a genetic failure in their eyes. He could have been more, but chose not to - and, worse even, he goes against it by opposing the Destiny Plan, which panders to the whole "my genes are better than yours" ideology.

The Accords' mentality grew out of a very toxic amalgamation of messiah complex and megalomania, enabled and galvanized by eugenics and pure racism.

Additionally, free will and the ability to deviate from that preordained path are something the Accords cannot wrap their heads around. You can see it over and over with Orphee not understanding why Lacus doesn't embrace her status as Queen of the Accords, preferring to be with Kira instead. That's another reason why the Accords loathe Kira - his behavior is nonsensical to them.

[cyberdemon]

Kira is someone who could become better than them but doesn’t live up to his potential which makes them view him as a failure. Yet he could easily eclipse them if he tried but he has no such desires. He cares not for power, only that which he can protect or more specifically love. They both look down on him and fear him.

[Renegade334]

The only unclear points IMHO are certain things said in the movie/novel about Kira, such as
- "Dr Hibiki's reject"
- "Accord wannabe"
However, those could simply be translation issues. The "reject" part could simply mean "a biogenetic reject created by Dr Hibiki" rather than "a biogenetic creation rejected by Dr Hibiki". The "Accord wannabe" part could be explained by Aura twisting the Accords' indoctrination to have them view Ulen Hibiki's work as a travesty, a failed attempt to create what the Accords are now. The novel indicates there was a lot of bad blood between Aura and Ulen, which endured even decades after the latter's death and partly contributed to the twisting of Aura's psyche after her accidental rejuvenation. There is actually zero evidence that Kira is an Accord or that he is developing Accord traits throughout the movie (even the moment where Lacus telepathically transmits the Ziggurats' coordinates to Kira so that he could target them with the Disruptor could be pinned on Lacus' abilities alone); the only other thing he does manifest is premonition (when Shura tries to ambush him near Messiah), but that could be a Newtype flash courtesy of the Da Flaga genes.