Gundam Seed Destiny

[Shinji103]

Originally Posted by 4Tran

But how's that supposed to be a mitigating factor?

>.>

I feel like I'm repeating myself here.

Probably because I am. >.>

Okay. People say original MSG has bad animation. By today's standards, absolutely.

But MSG isn't a "today" anime, is it?

When MSG was made, the show was made using the animating abilities they had available to them. How in the world can one expect people to make 2002-quality animation back in 1979? So all this talk the CE fanboys make of original Gundam having bad animation fails, because it was good animation back when it was made.

Originally Posted by Terra

The problem with saying that is you can't help but judge it compared to what you've seen since. So it's pointless to say that. Which is why when I watched it I tried not to judge the series for it's cliche parts but what it was for the time it was made, which is a good series. But unfortunately most people won't see it that way these days.

Help it or not, it doesn't change the fact that viewing a 30-year-old anime from a modern viewpoint is fundamentally and completely flawed any way you slice it. It's solely the fault of those with the inability to understand such a simple point.

[bbduece]

Originally Posted by Eidolon Sniper

Well of course you say you enjoy it, no more questions asked. But people are going to ask you what made you enjoyed the series. It's not simply saying "I enjoy eating bananas because I like bananas". People could say they like eating bananas because they taste good with peanut butter spread on it or they enjoy bananas because it goes well with oatmeal, etc. It's also like, "I enjoy watching SEED because the show made me realize kids have their own fears in a war, and that they could also do something about it if they are determined enough". That's a reason for liking SEED.



It's not really demanding. It's like, when you do ask a SEED hater why they hate SEED and give comments like "I just hate it", it would make you annoyed too. This may be a forum, but it's peopled with people whom you could talk to like ordinary people in a classroom or in the street; they would expect respect, explanations, etc. It's no reason to disregard a forum just as a forum filled with fans.



It could, or could not. There are comments like they didn't like the show because of the mecha designs, a ripoff of older UC shows, etc. and yes, that's enough reason why some fans rip out each others' throats because of it. The CE UC wars were very crazy when Destiny was still airing on this forum...O.o;;



Yes, it does. For fans who have not yet watched the series, they need good feedback in order to know if it's worth checking out.



Well and good. But if someone would ask you why you think so and so, such and such, as there are rabid fans of some characters lurking in this thread, then be prepared to answer them.

good, you can elaborate on your posts, trust me i wont whine

you will have to excuse me if i choose not to follow your guide-lines LOL.......

when u make your own little army you can tell your soldiers what you like for them to do

if i want to detail my post i will and when i dont too bad

i find it stupid when we are arguing what i should post, you need to relax.......the great thing about forums is people can post basically whatever they want

btw i dont like being force onto strict believes and i pretty sure a lot people dont either, i know giving details is helpful...duh....but when the purpose of the post was ment for something else live with it....geez.....a single detail should be suffcient becasue the post was ment to be view like that..if the poster wanted to provide more info they will, be patient, demanding for it does not work...actually it works a lot but demanding from me wont work...... i truely felt that using the word enjoy in my post serve its purpose by acknowledging my support for GSD even though the purpose of my post was to make some complaints.....

o btw i dont like bananas why do you like to eat bananas? please give me a very detail reason because by simply saying it taste good just wont do.... LOL?

sometimes simple things work wonders why make it complicated

i am sorry if my post did not meet your standard, as some of my other posts are fairly detail since i meant for them to be detailed, the post in the arguement was not meant to be detailed in the manner in which you seek therefore i would like to apologize since you do not seem satisfied and since this is going nowhere and i am done repeating myself, so i will have to say........GOOD DAY SIR

[Sir Dearka]

Originally Posted by Terra

Now I'm a CE fan. But I came into Gundam through Wing. I've seen the original series and X as well. Still need to get hold of the rest to watch them, but it's not from lack of wanting to watch them as I do want to watch them. Now I do see Seed as better than the original series as I find the original series absolutely cliche ridden. But for a series at it's time it probably wasn't like that. Now Seed is also cliche ridden, but not as badly. I still enjoyed MSG, and the animation doesn't bother me. It's the story that matters to me when it comes down to the series.

I think CE's biggest problem is the age of the majority of the fans. They're used to good quality animation and see anything with dated animation as being bad and aren't willing to give it a try. They've been spoilt by the time they've grown up in.

CE fans and haters have really given the universe a bad name with their extreme love/hate of the series. Which is probably why when Seed comes up it causes so many problems.

I totally agree with you. Seems we, as people who got into Gundam franchise through Wing and are now SEED fans have similar approach to this aspect

[winter45]

Originally Posted by Shinji103

>.>

I feel like I'm repeating myself here.

Probably because I am. >.>

Okay. People say original MSG has bad animation. By today's standards, absolutely.

But MSG isn't a "today" anime, is it?

When MSG was made, the show was made using the animating abilities they had available to them. How in the world can one expect people to make 2002-quality animation back in 1979? So all this talk the CE fanboys make of original Gundam having bad animation fails, because it was good animation back when it was made.

Shinji you dont have to repeat yourself. Your point is crystal clear and obvious, Some people refuse to understand the simplicity of ones point and wish to question it with opposition. Your point is valid and easy to comprehand and if i dont have a problem understanding you then im sure there are other readers out there who have no problems either.





@ 4Tran You be surpriesed how many customers at work just look at the back of the dvd case and make judgments by the screenshots.

Ill give a RL example of what happned last week at work. A japanese customer request an import order of Akira, macross DYRL and macross 7 from Japan. The goods finally came into the store when two 21year olds came and had chatt with me. While i was chatting they noticed the imported goods and ask me if they could have a look.

So i let them have a look, and after 2 minutes looking at the case, they told me its crap..... I was like WTF!!!!!! I asked them y is it crap? They replied to me coz the animation looks old. I asked them if they have ever seen it? they replied no and dont want to coz it looks crap. Now if that is not judging a book by its cover or should i say a DVD case in ths matter than i dont know how else i can explain to you of my earlier point.

Im assuming we both know know that AKIRA and macross aint crap. But this is the mentality that alot of customers have when selecting what anime they wish to purchase.

And i can give you another 2 years worth of examples of very similar experiances of this type of mentality that happens on a daily basis. The store i work at on a bad day we sell at least 15 anime dvd's when we specialise selling video games. So its not like im clueless of what the general anime fans like what to see and dont.

[Sir Dearka]

Well, it's basically that one should not expect the younger generation to like what he really likes. And should not call them "stupid" or "morons" just because they value the new show and discard the older show for its inferior quality or animation.

If we're talking about fame or popularity, as far as I now, Gundam SEED has had a big role in popularizing the whole franchise. It did, and still does, sell well. So what the haters would say... that majority is always "stupid"? That's kinda childish. Even if a great percent of SEED-fans are pretty young, they should not be disrespected. Unless they are like K-LAC who seems to promote, intentionally or not, the more negative image of the SEED fanbase. And it is kinda surprising to me that in fact many so called "UC-fans" or fans of other Gundam series whatsoever really think that it is just right to be disrespectful to all SEED fans. I dunno, maybe I am a bit too harsh in my words, but calling all SEED fans "stupid" it's kinda limited to me, just like people who call every Black person (pardon me) "a nigger".

[Spitfire]

Originally Posted by Sir Dearka

And should not call them "stupid" or "morons" just because they value the new show and discard the older show for its inferior quality or animation.

Yeah we should. If thats how your going to judge an anime, then you ARE stupid. Thats my honest opinion.

Originally Posted by Sir Dearka

If we're talking about fame or popularity, as far as I now, Gundam SEED has had a big role in popularizing the whole franchise. It did, and still does, sell well.

Gundam was plenty popular before seed; seed just created a new generation of gundams fans; a generation I think we could do without.

Originally Posted by Sir Dearka

So what the haters would say... that majority is always "stupid"? That's kinda childish. Even if a great percent of SEED-fans are pretty young, they should not be disrespected. Unless they are like K-LAC who seems to promote, intentionally or not, the more negative image of the SEED fanbase. And it is kinda surprising to me that in fact many so called "UC-fans" or fans of other Gundam series whatsoever really think that it is just right to be disrespectful to all SEED fans.

Why should we respect seed fans, if they see no problem in bashing us UC and AU fans? You always seem to think that its only seed fans who are the target of such "haters".

[4Tran]

Originally Posted by Shinji103

When MSG was made, the show was made using the animating abilities they had available to them. How in the world can one expect people to make 2002-quality animation back in 1979? So all this talk the CE fanboys make of original Gundam having bad animation fails, because it was good animation back when it was made.

My point is that, if someone were to dislike a show because he didn't like the way it looked, how would it being old make it look better?

Originally Posted by Shinji103

Help it or not, it doesn't change the fact that viewing a 30-year-old anime from a modern viewpoint is fundamentally and completely flawed any way you slice it. It's solely the fault of those with the inability to understand such a simple point.

The issue is, you're not very likely to go out of your way to play games like Netrek and Pong; and the fact that they were the very best computer games when they were made won't make any difference.

Originally Posted by winter45

@ 4Tran You be surpriesed how many customers at work just look at the back of the dvd case and make judgments by the screenshots.

Why would I be surprised? Most casual viewers won't do any research on anime before they buy, so they won't have much to go on besides the DVD case. In this case though, the DVD case is entirely equivalent to the book cover, so such a judgement is premature. It'd be a different scenario if they make the same judgement after watching the work.

Originally Posted by Spitfire

Yeah we should. If thats how your going to judge an anime, then you ARE stupid. Thats my honest opinion.

But why? Calling someone "stupid" is quite a bit stronger than personal taste, so do you have a reason for doing so?

[Spitfire]

Originally Posted by 4Tran

But why? Calling someone "stupid" is quite a bit stronger than personal taste, so do you have a reason for doing so?

Because I think if your going to think that way, then yes, you are stupid. I honestly don't know what else to say. I watch plenty of old anime, and not once do I think " this show is horrible solely because the animation is dated." If its has a good plot, great characters, and everything else that makes a good show, then I could care less on the quality of the animation. I find its a very archaic way of thinking if you judge a show based solely on its animation.

[4Tran]

This is just a case of someone else having different tastes than you do. It's great that the artwork of older anime doesn't affect how much you like it, but it'd be naive to assume that this is the case for everyone. Besides, I doubt that you're very likely to watch older works like The White Serpent or the original Tetsuwan Atom. And do you watch older movies like Nosferatu, Rashomon, and Casablanca?

[Eidolon Sniper]

Originally Posted by bbduece

good, you can elaborate on your posts, trust me i wont whine

you will have to excuse me if i choose not to follow your guide-lines LOL.......

WHAT guidelines?

when u make your own little army you can tell your soldiers what you like for them to do

if i want to detail my post i will and when i dont too bad

Well, I am not in any way even telling you to do that.... I was just saying that if people would wish to know your reasons as to why you feel that way, then you should answer them, because you may get misunderstood.

i find it stupid when we are arguing what i should post, you need to relax.......the great thing about forums is people can post basically whatever they want

No, you cannot, especially if they are meant to insult people or whatever. Can you even tell a guy in a normal conversation that you hate him without a reason? or what would you do when a guy you don't even know suddenly blurts out that he hates you? Or even punches you without a reason?

btw i dont like being force onto strict believes and i pretty sure a lot people dont either, i know giving details is helpful...duh....but when the purpose of the post was ment for something else live with it....geez.....a single detail should be suffcient becasue the post was ment to be view like that..if the poster wanted to provide more info they will, be patient, demanding for it does not work...actually it works a lot but demanding from me wont work...... i truely felt that using the word enjoy in my post serve its purpose by acknowledging my support for GSD even though the purpose of my post was to make some complaints.....

I am not even forcing you. Where did you get the idea? I was just saying that there are people who do post who might not want that kind of answer, and because you might get misunderstood, you would probably have to answer them. That's all. >.<;; You enjoyed SEED because of different reasons. People who dislike SEED would be most apt to ask you why. Or maybe they would make baseless accusations about SEED and say things like you're liking SEED for all the wrong reasons. >.>;;

The point here is that when a person does ask you why, then answer them if you could, or not, or say things like i like SEED cause so and so, that's it, then they would ask some more, and it's up to the both of you whether you continue the conversation or not. It's like meeting a friend on the street and he asks you something, you can't walk out on him without answering him, unless you two have had a spat. You reply or talk to him. Walking out on him is kinda rude, and you would be angry if someone also did that to you...>.>;;

o btw i dont like bananas why do you like to eat bananas? please give me a very detail reason because by simply saying it taste good just wont do.... LOL?

That was just meant to be an example...@.@;;

OK SEED wise, why do some people like SEED? winter45 gave an example wherein 2 guys judge anime by how it looks. So, there would be some people who like SEED by how it animates on the TV screen. Story? Well, there are fans who cry foul because to them it's a ripoff of classic UC stories. The characters? Yes, you covered that aspect.

There could be other reasons why people like SEED, the possibilities are endless. Now, if someone would ask you why you enjoyed it, then you just answered that you liked it because of the characterization, and hated what happened to Cagalli. Now if someone would ask you why do you like that aspect, there are other characters greater than what SEED has, or whatever, it would be up to the both of you whether you want to continue the conversation or not, or in the grand tradition of UC CE flame wars, the battle begins.

You're not obliged to answer everything people ask of you. But people are interested in knowing why you like that particular aspect and nothing else, and that is why they ask you that. It's because they might like SEED characters, but they don't appreciate it the way you appreciate them in terms of how you feel about them; they might like the characters because they look good (such as what winter45 said), or they could easily relate to them because they went through similar experiences, etc. It's not necessarily saying that when people ask you why you enjoyed SEED or CE in particular is that they're just there to annoy you. >.>;; they just want to know your thoughts.

i am sorry if my post did not meet your standard, as some of my other posts are fairly detail since i meant for them to be detailed, the post in the arguement was not meant to be detailed in the manner in which you seek therefore i would like to apologize since you do not seem satisfied and since this is going nowhere and i am done repeating myself, so i will have to say........GOOD DAY SIR

....

I am not even trying to set a standard here. If you expect people to be kind to you, then act kindly towards them as well. I am just saying that some people may want to ask why you so think that way, because enjoy could mean a lot of things, and yes, you did explain yourself pretty well already, and yet some people might not be yet satisfied with what you have to say. >.>;; I am just saying that if people ask you why, then answer them why.

Oh, and BTW, I'm a girl...

[4Tran]

Eidolon Sniper, while I can somewhat see the point of asking why someone dislikes a particular show, why do you think that there's a point in asking why they like a show? One would automatically assume that most people like a show because they were entertained by it, and that there isn't a whole lot of point in analyzing someone's personal tastes. Furthermore, to be dissatisfied with an answer seems especially absurd.

[Sir Dearka]

Originally Posted by Spitfire

Yeah we should. If thats how your going to judge an anime, then you ARE stupid. Thats my honest opinion.

Hmm.. I think that in this case 4Tran stated a good argument:

This is just a case of someone else having different tastes than you do. It's great that the artwork of older anime doesn't affect how much you like it, but it'd be naive to assume that this is the case for everyone. Besides, I doubt that you're very likely to watch older works like The White Serpent or the original Tetsuwan Atom. And do you watch older movies like Nosferatu, Rashomon, and Casablanca?

By calling SEED fans morons because they prefer "newer" series over "old" (old "classic"/"original" if you prefer) you behave like people who bash the fans of "Interview with the Vampire" just because they don't like "Nosferatu". Isn't it absurd?

And calling somebody "stupid" is incredibly OFFENDING. I think you SHOULD NOT offend someone just because he watches the show that you happen not to like. That's just savoir vivre and avoiding that is just plain rude, I suppose.

Originally Posted by Spitfire

Gundam was plenty popular before seed; seed just created a new generation of gundams fans; a generation I think we could do without.

Now that's a great example of how some people are just plain intollerant to other fellow Gundam fans.

Originally Posted by Spitfire

Why should we respect seed fans, if they see no problem in bashing us UC and AU fans? You always seem to think that its only seed fans who are the target of such "haters".

Then please, bash the very individuals that bash UC and AU fans. Not the whole SEED fandom.

[Eidolon Sniper]

@ 4Tran

There are people who are not satisfied with those kinds of answers. That is just what I am trying to say. And if people decide to ask you why, or even comment on how you liked the show, then people are supposed to answer, or ignore it altogether, unless the person is very persistent in knowing why you do hate or like the show. >.>;; If every concept could be easily answered with one answer, we would probably have been living a monotonous existence, so yes, sometimes it's good when people ask why. It's because they're interested to know why.

@ Sir Dearka

The 2 fanbases sometimes tend to generalize each other, so that is why there is "hatred" on both sides...>.>;; Some CE fans are also known to generalize UC fans, and vice versa. It's a cycle.

@ Spitfire

Yes, it is rather hard to understand for some fans to think that way, but even they deserve some respect. >.>;;

[4Tran]

Except that a response like "I liked show X because it entertained me" is a perfectly valid response.

[Sir Dearka]

Originally Posted by Eidolon Sniper

@ 4Tran@ Sir Dearka

The 2 fanbases sometimes tend to generalize each other, so that is why there is "hatred" on both sides...>.>;; Some CE fans are also known to generalize UC fans, and vice versa. It's a cycle.

@ Spitfire

Yes, it is rather hard to understand for some fans to think that way, but even they deserve some respect. >.>;;

I agree wholeheartedly.

[Eidolon Sniper]

@ 4Tran

But saying anything like that nowadays mean a lot of things to other people too. >.>;;

[D-KLAC]

geez you're talking about the age & generation of anime fans look i'm a GS fan also i'm 18 & besides i've watching animes since the 90s & besides you mention very old animes & i'll admit i did watch old animes like voltes v (of course everyone know that song especially the phils) & daimos & here a list of anime i've seen http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...adcast_by_Hero also in cn, gma, abs-cbn, Qtv.

& also it's because of the generation of animes that fans are these days.

[Sir Dearka]

Originally Posted by Eidolon Sniper

@ Sir Dearka
The 2 fanbases sometimes tend to generalize each other, so that is why there is "hatred" on both sides...>.>;;

It's amazing how Gundam fans are divided and wage wars like the characters in their favorite series :P

[Spitfire]

Originally Posted by Sir Dearka

It's amazing how Gundam fans are divided and wage wars like the characters in their favorite series :P

Its because alot of Gundam fans are just plain ignorant. I myself try to like ALL gundam series, and I pretty much do (except for GSD of course) Its just that I myself prefer the UC series over pretty much everything else.

Regarding yourself Sir Dearka, you need to get off your high horse. You have such a superiority complex its not funny. Yes, you have every right to like Seed as much as you do. I'm not saying otherwise. However, you need to stop acting like the seed fandom is superior. No fandom is superior to the other. UC/AU/CE fans bash each other all the time. You however, make it seem like its completely one sided; like its only seed fans who get bashed and flamed. Thats just not the case.

@4tran: In all honesty, no, I'm not likely to watch those shows and movies you mentioned. Why? Because they don't interest me. It has nothing to do with their age or quality.

[Sir Dearka]

Originally Posted by Spitfire

Its because alot of Gundam fans are just plain ignorant. I myself try to like ALL gundam series, and I pretty much do (except for GSD of course) Its just that I myself prefer the UC series over pretty much everything else.

Well, me too. Though I place SEED in the place you state "UC".

Originally Posted by Spitfire

Regarding yourself Sir Dearka, you need to get off your high horse. You have such a superiority complex its not funny. Yes, you have every right to like Seed as much as you do. I'm not saying otherwise. However, you need to stop acting like the seed fandom is superior. No fandom is superior to the other. UC/AU/CE fans bash each other all the time. You however, make it seem like its completely one sided; like its only seed fans who get bashed and flamed. Thats just not the case.

You are absolutely wrong. I've never stated that SEED fandom is superior to other. I just try to defend the fanbase which I feel to be a part of without saying what is better or not in general, but rather what I PREFER. With all respect to other fellow UC and Gundam 00 fans (two Gundam series I like most next to SEED)

And yeah, I did not intend to be funny, as I found most of your posts regarding the said topic offending and improper. And actually I think that's the main "dark" spot of the whole discussion so far.