Hanasaku Iroha - Episode 11 Discussion / Poll

[Guardian Enzo]

Or, it could be that Occam's Razor applies here and what appears to be true is true - Kou and Ohana are hopelessly entangled with each other romantically and circumstances have thrown a wedge between them, and where Tohru is concerned there's no "there" there. There's been no development from her side in that relationship at all - it could still come, but it would all be new from here.

A case could be made that Kou has been too passive and shy when it comes to Ohana and that #11 supports this case, but I'm not so sure. From his perspective he's laid his cards on the table - he told Ohana he likes her and later, he turned bookstore girl down. He's stated his position, and it's up to her. He's willing to wait - for now. I think he's in a place where he's put his life on hold for Ohana. Not fair, but not because she needs him more than he needs her. Kou needs Ohana plenty - picking himself up and going all the way to Yuwaku to see her, even if he did chicken out in the end.

Ohana is in a fairly dark place, seems to me. She's blaming herself for a lot of what's going wrong in her life, and she knows that what she's doing to Kou is wrong - but she can't force herself to make a decision. That's refreshingly realistic for a teenager, but it's also painful to watch. It's not as though they couldn't make a relationship work - Yuwaku is a hike, but it's not like they couldn't see each other every other weekend or something. The issue is, Ohana appears to be unready to make a decision - and she's blaming herself for that, too. Distance isn't the issue, and the bookstore girl isn't either - there's no evidence Kou has strong feelings for her. The issue is Ohana and her state of mind.

In terms of the "just friends" issue, I don't think it can happen - both of them are in too deep. There's too much complicated emotion between them to put it behind them and exist as friends. Either they're going to try it as a couple, or "so long". Time is Kou's friend here, in pure dramatic terms - the longer he's in the picture, the better the chances that Tohru is like the bookstore girl - an obstacle Okada places in the path of the main couple to test their commitment. If there's a decisive split between Ohana and Kou I think it happens immediately or almost so - and then, all bets are off, Tohru and otherwise. It's a free-for-all at that point.

[Shadow5YA]

I see that Ko is staying true to his style of being indirect.

The problem now is that Ohana isn't as honest and direct with Ko as she was before she left Tokyo.

[hanashi]

I agree with you that as things are, they can't stay friends. If Ohana says No/I don't know and runs off, I don't think they can remain friends. But it looks like they'll finally sit down and talk. At least, I hope Ohana wouldn't sit down and talk to the other girl without also sitting down and talking with Kou. But if they can sit down and talk to each other, I think there's a chance that they could remain friends. Either way, things have to move forward in the next episode. The writing/directing in this episode was absolutely brilliant.

But who knows? It's a sad fact of life that people grow up. Sometimes they grow together and sometimes they grow apart. I'm still close to some of my HS friends, others are just on my holiday card list and some I haven't talked to in years. Even though it's a natural part of life, it's sad to think about and I know that's coloring my hopes for Kou and Ohana.

I agree that Kou's put his life on hold, but I was trying (badly) to get across that I think it started a lot earlier than his confession to Ohana. I think it started when he first became friends with her/started liking her. Before she came to Kissuiso, Ohana was not moving, in any sense of the word. In fact, in episode one, we saw that she was actively rejecting change and avoiding thoughts about the future. She was going through the motions but she wasn't really part of the world around her. Otherwise, there's no way that a 16-year old girl just uproots her life without any complaint--unless the roots are relatively shallow. And now we know that her support system was basically just Kou. And I think she's starting to realize how important he was and is to her just as he's starting to inch forward. Now that his world is broader, he's starting to move forward even as he tries to remain in stasis. And even though Ohana is also changing and beginning to move, Kou is still her oldest and deepest tie and the fact that he's no longer there is exacerbating an already emotional day that started with an attack on Kissuiso, and by extension, all the people she's come to rely on. From her mother, no less.

At this point, Tooru and the bookstore girl don't even matter to Kou and Ohana, except as plot devices, and Tooru even less than that because Ohana doesn't even know about his crush. The bookstore girl matters in that she represents possibilities. I think of her as a reminder to Ohana and Kou that the world is moving around them. I suspect Kou's trip was precipitated by her confession. She'll matter more next week when Ohana talks to her and (hopefully) realizes the extent that she's holding everyone, including herself, back.

I think I'm starting to ramble so I'm going to stop while I still make sense in my head.

[DragoZERO]

That was... awesome. So good. Comedy, drama, romance, we had it all this time. Minko and Tohru showing up was kind of out of no where but still worked. Ohana really needed someone by that point too.

[Jonothon]

Has Minko's VA changed this episode? She sounds different to me.

[Archon_Wing]

Haven't had time to watch it due to not being at home... but out of curiosity....
*peeks at poll*

Whoa, all the cool people love it and they're a hard to please bunch. That's great!

*Comes in with unreasonable expectations*

[Soconfused]

Great episode ruined by an over dramatic ending. Ugh. O, and that scumbag showing his face again, it's ruining the show for me.

[Pellissier]

Originally Posted by Jonothon

Has Minko's VA changed this episode? She sounds different to me.

Definitely not. Omigawa Chiaki can easily sound kind and sweet when she needs to (for example you may check Seitokai Yakuindomo for reference).

[Gespenst]

Not entirely sure what we're supposed to talk about if the characters each have their own threads so I'll limit my post to this:

Originally Posted by Triple_R

What she's doing may not be illegal,

It is. Or I should say it's probably actionable. It depends what the defamation laws are like in Japan, in England it's along the lines of

The publication to a third party of an untrue statement that causes the victim to be lowered in the estimation of reasonable people

And things to that extent. Now I can't recall any time an opinion was called a lie for the purposes of defamation however if she hadn't been to the inns then she can't very well claim that it is true. Until last year what she had done would have been a crime in England - in my estimation anyway. I'm far from an expert (and I don't think anyone had been charged with that crime for about 100 years - people prefer to sue anyway).

[Essa Maneira]

at the last scene where Ohana has a shoulder to cry on, she asked herself why is she doin' in Tokyo, her answer was she didn't know what's the true purpose of being there and she looks out of place by herself. I'm already shed my tears.

[Shadow5YA]

Originally Posted by Gespenst

Not entirely sure what we're supposed to talk about if the characters each have their own threads so I'll limit my post to this:



It is. Or I should say it's probably actionable. It depends what the defamation laws are like in Japan, in England it's along the lines of

The publication to a third party of an untrue statement that causes the victim to be lowered in the estimation of reasonable people

And things to that extent. Now I can't recall any time an opinion was called a lie for the purposes of defamation however if she hadn't been to the inns then she can't very well claim that it is true. Until last year what she had done would have been a crime in England - in my estimation anyway. I'm far from an expert (and I don't think anyone had been charged with that crime for about 100 years - people prefer to sue anyway).

That would be true if Satsuki's review had any incorrect facts in it. However, her review was entirely subjective. The Kissuiso being very old, "retro" and traditional is factually correct. She just manipulated the facts to sound very negative. Libel and slander can only be prosecuted when the statements made contradict the facts. When it's all grounded on opinion, at most you'll get complaints from people like Ohana. No one will successfully be convicted and fined in that case. It just doesn't hold in court.

[hanashi]

Originally Posted by Gespenst

Not entirely sure what we're supposed to talk about if the characters each have their own threads

Multiple characters, the episode as a whole, etc. There's a debate going on about Satsuki's review in her character thread. I believe they've also brought up the the issue of libel, defamation, etc. Please feel free to take it over there. There were way too many posts about that at the beginning of the thread.

[blakstealth]

Originally Posted by Soconfused

Great episode ruined by an over dramatic ending. Ugh. O, and that scumbag showing his face again, it's ruining the show for me.

Wait, who? Ko's? lol

[Roger Rambo]

Originally Posted by blakstealth

Wait, who? Ko's? lol

Ko is most definitely 2d pig disgusting tier!

He should go back to the kitchen barefoot, get pregnant, and cook brownies!

[Lange Neus]

I find it hard to believe people would vote an awful episode like this a 'perfect 10'. Even more so considering there's quite some criticism in the post >.>

Well, nothing new I guess. Just noticing.

[Deconstructor]

Damn... this episode straight up gangster, a beastly baller from West in address, breakin' down into more tears than Super Smash Bros. Brawl's character list; in English, it was the greatest episode of Hanasaku Iroha's tenure.

The only thing I regret is knowing not all episodes can be as heartmoving as this one. Yeah, my heart literally got moved. At times the emotional level surpassed even Anohana and would give the recent critically acclaimed movie Colorful competition for it's story-telling awards.

I've always wondered how works of fiction can kill the living emotions inside of viewers. Some part of me believes we're pitying pathetic characters who were created to draw sympathy like metal to a magnet, but no part of Ohana's stubbornness to defend her new family feels pathetic to me. I guess we all have a little bit of Ohana inside all of us, struggling to set the injustices of the world right.

Ohana tried running away from her own feelings. She either loves Ko romantically or needs his friendship in times of suffering; either way she failed to communicate her feelings and left the building to a torrential downpour. I just feel there's going to be this moment when Ohana doesn't have to say anything to Ko and they'll understand each other perfectly... yeah, after another 10 episodes maybe. I think what I got out of that scene was Ohana can't carry the entire burden of Kissuiso, at least not alone. She needs to trust in other people. She needs a shoulder to lean on, or an umbrella to share with someone else on rainy days.

Hey, Ohana nearly got car raped. Recently many anime are pitting young women with their older male counterparts... (Anohana, Colorful, I would put Dog Days in here too.)

I can't believe Satsuki is still single. Smoking in a restaurant in front of your own child counts as an act of utter coolness in my book; in Japan it's probably a normal event. The emotionless way she readily refused a request from her own daughter? Satsuki defines the perfect mother. I don't even think Ohana's compelling and tear-jerking pleas appeared on the visual interface of Satsuki's emotional radar. Her tears just rolled off the surface of the metallic, iron wall that is Satsuki. Some hot-looking bachelor should marry Satsuki later on in the season.

By the end of the episode I believe Ohana realizes how powerless she is. I've always figured part of the "coming-of-age" story was for the main character to accept their inability to solve all the problems of the world and move on, enjoy what one is given in life and one's own friends, change personal philosophy from childhood idealism to mature realism. I actually want people to disagree with me on this point. Because Ohana has succeeded in making Minko a little more accepting, Nako a little more outgoing, Tohru a little more friendly, etc. I'd even say Ohana's enthusiasm has probably rubbed off on her own grandmother. But maybe there are some problems in the world that can't be fixed and some people who never change.

Episode 11 Rating: 9.5/10

[ars89]

What a coincidence that the person that wrote the article was her own mother. Like how we got to see her upset when she was younger again. Though she has a right to be angry at her mom, she should find out why the people at the top want Kissuiso to fail.

Wow jealousy to the max, seeing Ko with another girl. Even though he turned her down Ohana couldn't tell him anything. Lol that she was talking about not doing something that she did to Ko.

Tooru and Minchi to the rescue. Her crying was a nice touch to top the whole emotional roller coaster of a day she had.

Yuina really needs more screen time, she was so funny.

[Roger Rambo]

Originally Posted by ars89

What a coincidence that the person that wrote the article was her own mother. Like how we got to see her upset when she was younger again. Though she has a right to be angry at her mom, she should find out why the people at the top want Kissuiso to fail.

Well it's not like they wanted Kissuiso to fail in particular. The ENTIRE region got bad reviews.

[blakstealth]

Originally Posted by Roger Rambo

Ko is most definitely 2d pig disgusting tier!

He should go back to the kitchen barefoot, get pregnant, and cook brownies!

Rather, get back to the library and stack some shit. :P

I don't think he's that bad...yet.

[creb]

I actually went from completely despising her mother to some grudging respect for her. I mean, until this point, all I got about the mother was she sends her daughter off to an inn while she runs away with her boyfriend, and then sends her daughter a text message with a photo of her having the time of her life eating crabs etc. LoL. At the time, I was like, "wow, what a mom, that's exactly the type of message I'd send my daughter after I send her off to a home I ran away from".

Here, we see she's not really as shallow as she seemed way back in episode one. It's clear she loves her daughter, something I couldn't have said up until this point. She was also remarkably mature in her conversation with her, once she dropped the pretenses. That said, I have to wonder how the entire premise of the show even works now that she's no longer dodging the debt collectors with her boyfriend. As in, there doesn't actually seem to be a narrative reason for Ohana to be working at the inn (though I suppose I could have missed it as I've skimmed a few episodes) anymore.

Don't get me wrong. I'm hardly nominating the mother for mother of the year rewards, but it's good to see she's got more substance to her than we saw in episode one.

I really liked how she went and gave Ohana the snacks and drinks without telling her to come home. Sometimes, as a parent, you have to let your children play out their feelings, but you can still show some care without interfering with that.

It's also pretty obvious the low scores were motivated by the huge hotel coming in. Yes, it's a mockery of the review system, but that's how real life works, and I'm glad there was no fairy tail resolution to that, though I'm guessing at some point in the season, the big hotel will get their comeuppance.

And, we know there are issues between the mother and the grandmother and the inn. I'm sure it'll be revealed in time.

Watching relationships on screen can always be difficult, as plot tends to require each half being as obtuse as possible, while we the audience want to reach through the screen and smack them around for being idiots. A love triangle(s) is clearly being set up.