Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei LN - Archived Discussion

[fujin of shadows]

Let's just put Tatsuya and Miyuki's love lives in laments term.

Tatsuya cannot love anyone aside from Miyuki.

Miyuki refuses to love anyone aside from Tatsuya.

Tatsuya cannot feel affection towards anyone aside from Miyuki.

Miyuki is disgusted at the thought of a man touching her, with the exception of Tatsuya.

Tatsuya would protect Miyuki from everything that would cause her harm or would sadden her.

Miyuki would protect Tatsuya's honor at all cost and to the extreme.

Tatsuya would destroy the world for Miyuki.

Miyuki would give Tatsuya the world if she is able to.

I understand the shit load of Shipping words in this forum....There are over 11,157 replies in this thread and I bet that at least 75% of the replies revolves around shipping.

I am a firm believer of the pairing Tatsuya and Miyuki (I'll just call this ShivaShipping). The chemistry between them is beyond perfect and they depend on each other one way or another.

Tatsuya is Miyuki's drive to better herself. Miyuki's single goal in life is to be a worthy little sister for Tatsuya. She betters herself for him and for him alone. From her mindset, Miyuki wants to be strong and to be beautiful, to be perfect for Tatsuya and for Tatsuya alone.

Miyuki makes Tatsuya a human being. Tatsuya is broken. He cannot express strong emotions and his mindset is similar to Kiritsugu Emiya. He is pragmatic and ruthless. He is a genius and his power literally allows him to destroy the world. The reason that he hasn't go nuclear is because Miyuki exists in the world. Miyuki makes Tatsuya human because the human side of him can only surface whenever Miyuki is within arm's reach of him.

Also, the fact that after that surgery of his, the emotion that remains within him is his instinctual love for Miyuki is a further indication of his devotion for her. You guys can call this an accident, I call this Tatsuya instinctively prioritizing the most important being of his life.

[anonfr]

Originally Posted by Ultraviolet X

You may as well say what your trying to say. Unless you want me to start trashing Erika again. Nothing else to really debate.

How about the plausibility of Shizuka and Tatsuya as a married couple? See they don't have to be passionately in love, they just have to be generally fond of each other/ mostly enjoy each other's company and be able to make babies.

I think they have a good enough dynamic for that.

Unlike Tatsuya and a certain Genki girl that probably would want something akin to a passionate love.

thoughts?

[BlueDanube]

Originally Posted by Guest2

In this world your life force running out is not a result of physical injury and so not really applicable to my question. And it may be as you say that death occurs when one loses their 5 senses, but that has never been confirmed in the novel so its just a good guess at this point. Especially since in this world magicians have a 6th sense, in addition to the normal 5 senses, that allows them to connect with an alternate dimension that makes magic possible. I would love to know what novel statements have given you such confidence in your answers.

Sorry then, my point is according to the USNA theory in the novel and Yakumo's explanation in v9, the living human mind has exactly the same make up as the vamp. There is no difference according to the novel.


My fiend, you're being a bit silly here. If we were not talking about a fictional world, then you are absolutely correct. But that is not the case and it is fictional. There are many ridiculous things in this novel, from the existence of magic to the existence of inter-dimensional spirit like parasites born from human minds invading the world. I'm still wondering what novel statements give you such confidence in your ideas when the novel has theories that the brain doesn't do any actual thinking and just transmits data, when Tatsuya goes around claiming that there is nothing that can truly harm him, and the fact he doesn't have to rely on his 5 senses like others due to his Elemental sight.

My confidence in the importance of the brain to life is shaky because in v9 its suggested that - "We USNA magic researchers believe that the brain is not an independent thinking organ; the real thinking core is the Pushion Information Body; the brain’s role is to receive the information sent from the so-called 'mind', and the communication organ transmits the information of the body to the mind. Although still in the theoretical stage, the possibility is very high.". - The brain in this novel is just an organ than translates and transmits info from a spirit body. And its also explained in v8 the magic calculation area is a part of the mind and not a physical place in the body. It is very likely that damage or destruction to the brain equals instant death. But with the theories of the mind and brain given in the novel and Tatsuya's statements about his ability to recover from physical damage, to me it makes things uncertain still.


And I'm pointing out that the novel stated in Tatsuya and Yakumo's conversation that they did once possess a physical body and were once dependant on one. Yakumo suggested that all spirits come from another dimension and that the human spirit/human mind was also the same and existed in a dimension the humans were unable to percieve. That same conversation talks about other spirits also besides the vamps, and we know that other spirits can also use magic since that is what Mikihiko's spirit magic is described as being based on.

I don't think the USNA exeriment was stated as giving the vamps an influx of energy. In v10 Tatsuya states it opened a hole into another dimension where the energy for magic comes from, and the energy from that dimension seeped into their world and formed an information body. I am not suggesting Tatsuya will become a parasite. I just quoted the parts that show researchers and Yakumo believe the living human mind is actually a pushion spirit body that dwells in alternate dimension, exactly like the parasites and other spirits, and that the brain isn't the core of the thought process. There is also a scene in the V8 side story where Yotsuba members had automatically activated magic work to destroy their bodies upon their death. All this plus nothing confirming what damage to the brain might do to Tatsuya, leaves open the possibility that restoration could work before the state of death occurs, even if the brain is destroyed.

in short, Tatsuya is Immortal. ........what a monster.

[Ultraviolet X]

Originally Posted by anonfr

How about the plausibility of Shizuka and Tatsuya as a married couple? See they don't have to be passionately in love, they just have to be generally fond of each other/ mostly enjoy each other's company and be able to make babies.

I think they have a good enough dynamic for that.

Unlike Tatsuya and a certain Genki girl that probably would want something akin to a passionate love.

thoughts?

Thats the funniest thing, of all the girls that have fallen for him, she is probly the closest to matching his mindset, his "detachment", and yet, she is the least considered. With some more emotional development on Tatsuya's part, that could be possible. The reason he can't really be in a relationship is because he will always be "detached", the emotions that allow you to feel attachment to something (hatred, love, Glutony etc) are non existant, but if it were just with somone he was generally fond of, and shared the same mindset, that could well be possible. Honestly though, you have to wonder how two people like that will ever get together.

The problem with the other girls so far, Lina, Honoka, Erika etc is that they have all be passonite, and how do I say this, "involved"? they tend to be passionate about certain things, and unlike a typical person Tatsuya just isnt capable of such involvement into another person, activity etc. Hes lost the emotions to do so, unless it involves Miyuki in some form or another, and that is because she is the only one he can feel a "stronger" emotion towards(sibling love). If Sizuka and Tatsuya do end up together though, she will need to know this fact as well.

[anonfr]

Originally Posted by Ultraviolet X

Thats the funniest thing, of all the girls that have fallen for him, she is probly the closest to matching his mindset, his "detachment", and yet, she is the least considered. With some more emotional development on Tatsuya's part, that could be possible. The reason he can't really be in a relationship is because he will always be "detached", the emotions that allow you to feel attachment to something (hatred, love, Glutony etc) are non existant, but if it were just with somone he was generally fond of, and shared the same mindset, that could well be possible. Honestly though, you have to wonder how two people like that will ever get together.

A rich girl and a genius? Both prodigies in their own right?
A family outside of the 10 master clans that could be a valuable asset?

I can picture a few scenerios that can put them together.

But if you mean just in general, to generally detached people just getting together? I assume they find some semblance of comfort or common ground, they certainly wouldn't feel the need to force themselves into conversation.

I can imagine the married life already, Tatsuya underground in a laboratory inventing something amazing, Shizuka up in the boardrooms dealing with shareholders and enforcing company policy. It's a match made in heaven I think. I know I can easily see them sitting in a room silently reading and drinking tea together like the most natural thing in the world.

PLUS if he really did want to get free of Yotsuba, Shizuku's company is practically the best next thing, he can certainly work a little Taurus silver magic over there and make it the new number 1.

Not that I'm really shipping them hard, it's just so easy to put them together in some ways.

[Zoks]

Originally Posted by Ultraviolet X

Guys, your making a misunderstanding here. Its not that he lost all his emotions at all, its stated that he has lost his "stronger" emotions. what would be called his "weaker" emotions have always been completly intact. Merely stunted. Probly due to unique uupbrining.

Honami dying wasn't a stunted emotion, it was full on grief. He wasn't just a little sad that something bad happened to her, like how we was sad about Kobayakawa's injury. Consider his initial reaction to Minami. He doesn't want to be close to her because she reminds him of Honami. Those are deep scars.

[Ultraviolet X]

Originally Posted by anonfr

A rich girl and a genius? Both prodigies in their own right?
A family outside of the 10 master clans that could be a valuable asset?

I can picture a few scenerios that can put them together.

But if you mean just in general, to generally detached people just getting together? I assume they find some semblance of comfort or common ground, they certainly wouldn't feel the need to force themselves into conversation.

I can imagine the married life already, Tatsuya underground in a laboratory inventing something amazing, Shizuka up in the boardrooms dealing with shareholders and enforcing company policy. It's a match made in heaven I think. I know I can easily see them sitting in a room silently reading and drinking tea together like the most natural thing in the world.

PLUS if he really did want to get free of Yotsuba, Shizuku's company is practically the best next thing, he can certainly work a little Taurus silver magic over there and make it the new number 1.

Not that I'm really shipping them hard, it's just so easy to put them together in some ways.

Its a really interesting scenario. And the authour has brought her parents into the story despite them serving no real purpose so far. Unforunatly though, theres not much known about her and it seems like she is no more then a side character at this point.

[Guest2]

Originally Posted by BlueDanube

in short, Tatsuya is Immortal. ........what a monster.

In short, the stated novel theories make it a possibility. Tatsuya atleast claims there is nothing that can truly harm him. But he cannot similarly recover from damage to his mind by outer-systematic magic. And if he continues to be drawn into battles where must use his innate magic alot, he's likely to have a short life like his mother and gramps.

[BW95]

Originally Posted by Guest2

In this world your life force running out is not a result of physical injury and so not really applicable to my question. And it may be as you say that death occurs when one loses their 5 senses, but that has never been confirmed in the novel so its just a good guess at this point. Especially since in this world magicians have a 6th sense, in addition to the normal 5 senses, that allows them to connect with an alternate dimension that makes magic possible. I would love to know what novel statements have given you such confidence in your answers.

Sorry then, my point is according to the USNA theory in the novel and Yakumo's explanation in v9, the living human mind has exactly the same make up as the vamp. There is no difference according to the novel.

My fiend, you're being a bit silly here. If we were not talking about a fictional world, then you are absolutely correct. But that is not the case and it is fictional. There are many ridiculous things in this novel, from the existence of magic to the existence of inter-dimensional spirit like parasites born from human minds invading the world. I'm still wondering what novel statements give you such confidence in your ideas when the novel has theories that the brain doesn't do any actual thinking and just transmits data, when Tatsuya goes around claiming that there is nothing that can truly harm him, and the fact he doesn't have to rely on his 5 senses like others due to his Elemental sight.

My confidence in the importance of the brain to life is shaky because in v9 its suggested that - "We USNA magic researchers believe that the brain is not an independent thinking organ; the real thinking core is the Pushion Information Body; the brain’s role is to receive the information sent from the so-called 'mind', and the communication organ transmits the information of the body to the mind. Although still in the theoretical stage, the possibility is very high.". - The brain in this novel is just an organ than translates and transmits info from a spirit body. And its also explained in v8 the magic calculation area is a part of the mind and not a physical place in the body. It is very likely that damage or destruction to the brain equals instant death. But with the theories of the mind and brain given in the novel and Tatsuya's statements about his ability to recover from physical damage, to me it makes things uncertain still.


And I'm pointing out that the novel stated in Tatsuya and Yakumo's conversation that they did once possess a physical body and were once dependant on one. Yakumo suggested that all spirits come from another dimension and that the human spirit/human mind was also the same and existed in a dimension the humans were unable to percieve. That same conversation talks about other spirits also besides the vamps, and we know that other spirits can also use magic since that is what Mikihiko's spirit magic is described as being based on.

I don't think the USNA exeriment was stated as giving the vamps an influx of energy. In v10 Tatsuya states it opened a hole into another dimension where the energy for magic comes from, and the energy from that dimension seeped into their world and formed an information body. I am not suggesting Tatsuya will become a parasite. I just quoted the parts that show researchers and Yakumo believe the living human mind is actually a pushion spirit body that dwells in alternate dimension, exactly like the parasites and other spirits, and that the brain isn't the core of the thought process. There is also a scene in the V8 side story where Yotsuba members had automatically activated magic work to destroy their bodies upon their death. All this plus nothing confirming what damage to the brain might do to Tatsuya, leaves open the possibility that restoration could work before the state of death occurs, even if the brain is destroyed.

Magicians only use their five senses to target in the information dimension. There is no sixth sense involved. Was it stated? I think the only other sense they have would be their ability to perceive pushions and psions. That bit about the five sense was part of my deduction on when and how death occurs.

Besides the fact that they can exist without a physical body? Having the same makeup would mean that they wouldn't be capable of such feats.

(According to sensei’s hypothesis, there is a good chance that Parasites are formed from the independent information bodies splintered off from the human psyche.)

Note the splintered off section. They're basically makeshift consciousness that spontaneously formed from pieces of human psyches. That's a bit different from minds of humans becoming parasites in death. Also, these parasites don't seem to recall their previous humans lives so I think this splintered off theory is right. When I was talking about how they never had a physical body, I was referring to when they were parasites, which started at this point without corporeal form.

This fictional world adheres to reality as closely as possible while incorporating pseudo magical laws. Aside from spirits, it's doubtful the author changed the meaning of death. As for Tatsuya's claim that nothing can harm him, just because something can't harm you doesn't mean it can't kill you. That's my take on it. The way I see it, Tatsuya's Regrowth simply prevents his injuries from hindering him in battle. So he can't be worn down like typical fighters.

I do not doubt the USNA theory at all. However, it is doubtful the human pushion information body would be capable of the same feats of the parasites in continuing to exist much less cast magic without a physical body. Furthermore, according to this description it sounds like the brain would be the spirit that connects the mind and the body. In which case, it's existence would be even more crucial to life and the use of magic.

It was stated in volume 10 by Tatsuya as one of two possibilities. It was in your quote. Basically, fragments of human psyches like pushion waves spontaneously form spirits, or pushion information bodies. However, these spirits are normally incapable of meddling in the corporeal realm and dormant. It was only until the black hole experiment where free energy was leaked into this world and taken by these parasites, that they were given life and able to interfere like they did during the vampire arc.

(There are two possibilities.)
(First, Parasites invaded from an alternate dimension.)
(Second, uncontrolled energy trickled in from another dimension and stimulated the previously dormant Parasites that dwelt in this world.)

[Rava]

Originally Posted by fujin of shadows

[...]

Miyuki is disgusted at the thought of a man touching her, with the exception of Tatsuya.

[...]

I will note that this still leaves Miyuki open to a *female* pairing...

[Ultraviolet X]

Originally Posted by fujin of shadows

Let's just put Tatsuya and Miyuki's love lives in laments term.

Tatsuya cannot love anyone aside from Miyuki.

Miyuki refuses to love anyone aside from Tatsuya.

Tatsuya cannot feel affection towards anyone aside from Miyuki.

Miyuki is disgusted at the thought of a man touching her, with the exception of Tatsuya.

Tatsuya would protect Miyuki from everything that would cause her harm or would sadden her.

Miyuki would protect Tatsuya's honor at all cost and to the extreme.

Tatsuya would destroy the world for Miyuki.

Miyuki would give Tatsuya the world if she is able to.

I understand the shit load of Shipping words in this forum....There are over 11,157 replies in this thread and I bet that at least 75% of the replies revolves around shipping.

I am a firm believer of the pairing Tatsuya and Miyuki (I'll just call this ShivaShipping). The chemistry between them is beyond perfect and they depend on each other one way or another.

Tatsuya is Miyuki's drive to better herself. Miyuki's single goal in life is to be a worthy little sister for Tatsuya. She betters herself for him and for him alone. From her mindset, Miyuki wants to be strong and to be beautiful, to be perfect for Tatsuya and for Tatsuya alone.

Miyuki makes Tatsuya a human being. Tatsuya is broken. He cannot express strong emotions and his mindset is similar to Kiritsugu Emiya. He is pragmatic and ruthless. He is a genius and his power literally allows him to destroy the world. The reason that he hasn't go nuclear is because Miyuki exists in the world. Miyuki makes Tatsuya human because the human side of him can only surface whenever Miyuki is within arm's reach of him.

Also, the fact that after that surgery of his, the emotion that remains within him is his instinctual love for Miyuki is a further indication of his devotion for her. You guys can call this an accident, I call this Tatsuya instinctively prioritizing the most important being of his life.

Its also noted that Miyuki recognises she is one of the things binding/restricting Tatsuya, and she intends to "set him free." And that she knows they will seperate one day. And that she will marry somone else, its her duty. Have to wonder though, how you argue the incest route given that:

1) He loves her like a sibling, not a lover, it doesnt go further then that.
2) They are sibling by blood (seriously, doesnt that turn your mind a little?)
3) Given his personality, its more likely hed state that he only sees her as a sibling and reject
4) If he did go along with it, it would still be a sham of sorts. He cant love her like that, and Miyuki would know that instantly, and would affect her long run, wont that be too cruel
5) The obstacles (the yotsuba wont allow it, nor will society, Tats is good, yes, but he cant take on an entire country, they would both die. so he won't do that)

[TonyC1994]

Originally Posted by Rava

I will note that this still leaves Miyuki open to a *female* pairing...

Nice loophole...

[Seitsuki]

MiyukixLina still ultimate backup ship

[fujin of shadows]

Originally Posted by Ultraviolet X

Its also noted that Miyuki recognises she is one of the things binding/restricting Tatsuya, and she intends to "set him free." And that she knows they will seperate one day. And that she will marry somone else, its her duty. Have to wonder though, how you argue the incest route given that:

1) He loves her like a sibling, not a lover, it doesnt go further then that.
2) They are sibling by blood (seriously, doesnt that turn your mind a little?)
3) Given his personality, its more likely hed state that he only sees her as a sibling and reject
4) If he did go along with it, it would still be a sham of sorts. He cant love her like that, and Miyuki would know that instantly, and would affect her long run, wont that be too cruel
5) The obstacles (the yotsuba wont allow it, nor will society, Tats is good, yes, but he cant take on an entire country, they would both die. so he won't do that)

Miyuki's only duty is to produce a powerful magician as an offspring.. She doesn't need to marry for that to happen.

1. Your first argument is debatable, there are some text in the novel that indicates that Tatsuya is attracted to Miyuki that goes beyond that of siblings.

2. Siblings by blood is also debatable. There DNA matches, that's a given, but remember, Tatsuya and Miyuki does not recall their childhood when they were five and below. There is a chance that they are cousins and in Japan, cousins are allowed to marry.

P.S. So what if its incest. They don't have to be marry, they just have to be lover. They don't have to legitimize their union with all that legal crap. Also, Miyuki would be the head of the Yotsuba, they can alter personal information without anyone knowing.

3. Tatsuya would not cause Miyuki any grief, consciously or unconsciously. He would kill himself first before doing that. Tatsuya would go against everyone and everything for Miyuki. If it means going against the norms and being her lover, he would do so. Tatsuya's greatest joy is to make Miyuki happy, consequence be damn.

4. It has already been established that Tatsuya and Miyuki love each other. They are siblings and each others best friend. Miyuki loves Tatsuya as a man and he is just struggling to take the next step in their relationship.

To be lovers, the couple must first be friend, they are already beyond friends.

I see your point that Tatsuya would be uncomfortable in the beginning, but for Miyuki's sake he would adapt, and Miyuki would do her best to be the ideal lover for Tatsuya. They would both adapt in the situation of the other.

And about a sham, arrange marriage is a sham in itself. Do you think they (Tatsuya and Miyuki) would be happy. Arrange marriage is consists of two strangers smiling politely in at each other in public and giving the cold shoulder in private... Also, aside from Tatsuya, I don't see any other men who would treat Miyuki like she deserves. If any other man marries Miyuki, they would treat her like a trophy and Tatsuya would not let Miyuki be treated that way.

5) About the obstacles, do you honestly thing society would care about to siblings being lovers. Let's consider who they are. A strategic type magician and the next head of the Yotsuba.

The Yotsuba would tolerate anything as long as they remain the strongest. If they threaten Miyuki, one Material Burst and they are wipe out.

Society won't give a damn about them in general. They would frown and ridicule them but no one would be a threat to them.

As for Tatsuya vs the Country....Tatsuya is a national asset, equivalent to a nuclear weapon, do you think they would risk the chance of having that weapon being aimed at them because of his choice of lover?

If it comes to that, Tatsuya would fall and Miyuki would fall with him. The question would be, how severe and how much casualty will Japan suffer and if Japan is will to take the risk.

Just imagine, one ton of matter converted to energy. Will there be a Japan after an explosion of that magnitude?

Tatsuya and Miyuki is the most possible pairing in the series, we just have to look past the incest issue.

Miyuki is in love with Tatsuya.

Tatsuya is devoted to Miyuki.

Miyuki can have Tatsuya as a lover, she just needs to say the word or give the order.

Tatsuya would do everything to make Miyuki happy, stepping towards a forbidden line is something that Tatsuya would do for her.

[fujin of shadows]

Originally Posted by Seitsuki

MiyukixLina still ultimate backup ship

TatsuyaxErikaxMiyuki as backup pairing.

Tatsuya can marry Erika, Miyuki can be his mistress, Erika can crossdress as a male, Miyuki can "marry" Erika.

With that, Erika can have a family, Tatsuya can remain with Tatsuya, and Miyuki can technically have the husband that she wants!!!! Everybody wins.....

[kidswable]

Stray away from shipping war,
If Shiba Tatsuya and Miyuki is the son and daughter of former Yotsuba Miya(later become Shiba Miya) and Shiba Tatsurou.
While still married with Miya, Tatsurou still keep his love life with Fuyuha Sayuri. And after Miya died , She marry with Tatsurou and become Shiba sibling's stepmother. While working in FLT tatsurou is not keeping his name as his business name but instead change it to Shiibara Tatsurou.
Now for the conspiracy, if tatsurou have a daughter from his affair and he doesnt want his daugter to be in ties with yotsuba, cant he put a different name for her? Like maybe Shiba -> Shiibara -> Shibata?
And as far as I remember tatsurou is a VP in FLT, while sayuri is a former scientist.
And Mizuki said that she wnt to be artificer just like Tatsuya, cant she be a step sibling of tatsuya?

[BW95]

Originally Posted by kidswable

Stray away from shipping war,
If Shiba Tatsuya and Miyuki is the son and daughter of former Yotsuba Miya(later become Shiba Miya) and Shiba Tatsurou.
While still married with Miya, Tatsurou still keep his love life with Fuyuha Sayuri. And after Miya died , She marry with Tatsurou and become Shiba sibling's stepmother. While working in FLT tatsurou is not keeping his name as his business name but instead change it to Shiibara Tatsurou.
Now for the conspiracy, if tatsurou have a daughter from his affair and he doesnt want his daugter to be in ties with yotsuba, cant he put a different name for her? Like maybe Shiba -> Shiibara -> Shibata?
And as far as I remember tatsurou is a VP in FLT, while sayuri is a former scientist.
And Mizuki said that she wnt to be artificer just like Tatsuya, cant she be a step sibling of tatsuya?

That guy can't hide squat from the Yotsuba family. If he's got other children, they'll know about it, but it's not like they can't have one.

[Chirst]

Credited by Mattdamon from jcafe24

Spoiler for pic:

A picture from Spring 2014 Dengeki G's Magazine April 2014 Issue

[hakazee]

Originally Posted by BW95

That guy can't hide squat from the Yotsuba family. If he's got other children, they'll know about it, but it's not like they can't have one.

So what if the Yotsuba know about it ?
Tatsurou has affair with Sayuri and they don't care ( Miya don't care at all ).

[BW95]

Originally Posted by Chirst

Credited by Mattdamon from jcafe24

Yet another reminder of the excellent animation we can expect this upcoming April. It's going to be a magical month.