D.C. II S.S. ~Da Capo II Second Season~

[Millenia]

I never get the chance to play any anime games They never come out in England. Only large things like Naruto fighting sims do. I have yet to see anime dating sim to be released in the UK.
I think the only Anime games I have played is Kana(subbed) and Utawarerumono(kanji) and they were by torrent from a friend.

I would like to play the D.C. games but I cant because of retail distribution

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by Millenia

I never get the chance to play any anime games They never come out in England. Only large things like Naruto fighting sims do. I have yet to see anime dating sim to be released in the UK.
I think the only Anime games I have played is Kana(subbed) and Utawarerumono(kanji) and they were by torrent from a friend.

I would like to play the D.C. games but I cant because of retail distribution

Well, until recently they haven't really been out in English anyway, so it wasn't just England that was the problem, it was the whole world! That being said, thing are beginning to change amazingly enough, with the pending online English release of the original Da Capo game. If it sells well, who knows -- a translated D.C. II may not be too much to wish for anymore.

[sikvod00]

Thanks for the link, relentless!

[nikorai]

Hello.
I'm bringing the the thread back to the top. I've been pretty busy lately. Just found time to watch the show to the end.
I must say that the last two episodes were very touching, almost put me to tears which it a sign that the show was successful. Of course I'm very sorry for Sakura but it seems there's nothing we can do about it.
Depressing as the anime might be I noticed this thing in the last episode. I wonder if you had the same idea as me:



Sorry, I'm terrible at photoshop. If you can do better that would be pretty much appreciated.

[mangalowres]

There was something like that in "The Shining" .... if I remember right.
Scary.

[nikorai]

mangalowres
Bingo! Right you are. I expected as much.

[suguru]

Finally got around to watching the last two episodes...while the series had its good points and I'm glad I watched it all the way through, it's still hard not to think it really failed to live up to its potential.

Spoiler for ending of DCIISS:

There were two things that really ruined the ending for me:

(1) Yoshiyuki being his usual emotionless self--Yume pours her heart out to him in ep 12 and he just stands there? If you replaced Yoshiyuki with a cardboard cutout, would it make any difference at all? Other than having a pulse, what does any of the girls see in Yoshiyuki? Junichi at least had a personality in the original DC.

(2) No winner/romantic moment at the end. I'm a sucker for any anime series with romance in it, but they killed that whole angle because Yume and Otome's feelings came across as completely one-sided. If there was ever a situation for Yoshiyuki to tell Yume or Otome that he liked them it was the last two episodes, but he didn't do it. I can't help thinking they took the cop-out "life continues on" approach because they didn't want to piss off either girl's fans, but come on--imagine the original Da Capo ending in a draw between Nemu and Sakura, it would have ruined the series.

I'm sure I had my expectations a little too high based on the original series...guess now we can take bets on how long before a DC III game comes out...

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by suguru

Spoiler for ending of DCIISS:

I can't help thinking they took the cop-out "life continues on" approach because they didn't want to piss off either girl's fans, but come on--imagine the original Da Capo ending in a draw between Nemu and Sakura, it would have ruined the series.

Spoiler for From the "things I think you would know if you had played the game" file...:

I understand what you're saying. At the same time, you're not the first one who's said that you suspected that it's because they didn't want to piss off either girl's fans. Not that I'm trying to offer this as consolation, but I really don't think that's why they did it.

I think it's just because they were trying to use as many of the game's good scenes as possible. Both Yume's ending and Otome's endings in the game were quite strong, but having both together is even more dramatic (because they offer two very different perspectives on the same event and plays heavily on them being sisters). It also emphasizes the "family" theme that bound things together with Sakura and Junichi. The consequence, though, is that it made Yoshiyuki indecisive nearly to the point of being paralyzed. If you understand the scenes in the game that they were adapating (I've been thinking of doing a game script -> anime script alignment just so people could see how many they actually covered), you can see exactly why they had to do this -- it was the only way to follow the game's story to both ends and deliver all the good scenes in one show. I suspect that the writers believed it was worth the trade-off (they may possibly have reasoned that most people watch these shows for the heroines, and not the male lead). Whether that was the right call or not is another story, but I really don't think it was about "keeping fans of both girls happy". I think it was more about being true to the game's story at the expense of the elements that would make it incompatible.

In other words, I think Yoshiyuki's personality and romance were sacrificed in the name of delivering as many game scenes as possible in one adaptation. I don't think it was about pleasing the heroine fanboys, as much as it was pleasing the game players in general by not messing with the game story. If anything, I would guess that fanboys of either girl would have reason to be a bit annoyed, because their favoured girl didn't get the romantic pay off she got in the game in those same scenes. The consolation for that is of course, "just play the game to get the romantic ending you want". Not that it does us English-speakers as much good...

Like I said: this is not a "consolation" nor an attempt to dismiss your disappointment, which I honestly do understand (it's the big reason why, in spite of being faithful to the game, I think the game is still better). More like to try to fill in that "why would they have done this?" question. And no, I don't think they could have done this with the original D.C., because it was a totally different sort of story -- they still combined elements of all the endings, but they couldn't blend it in the way they did here. In the original D.C. adaptation they took more liberties in order to make the anime story more dramatic, whereas D.C. II S.S. tried as much as possible to use scenes directly from the game.

[suguru]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

Spoiler for From the "things I think you would know if you had played the game" file...:

I understand what you're saying. At the same time, you're not the first one who's said that you suspected that it's because they didn't want to piss off either girl's fans. Not that I'm trying to offer this as consolation, but I really don't think that's why they did it.

I think it's just because they were trying to use as many of the game's good scenes as possible.

Spoiler for DCIISS ending:

It's impossible to read their minds, of course, but I think we're kind of saying the same thing--I can picture them sitting down thinking "well, if we go Otome's route and cut all the Yume scenes, Yume fans are far less likely to buy the DVDs, and vice-versa, so let's throw in BOTH routes and just leave the ending wide-open." Then fans of each girl can get to see their route from the game animated, and each faction can plausibly imagine a scenario where their preferred heroine "wins" (although admittedly, they seemed to favor Otome, to me anyway). More DVD sales, and everyone's happy and goes home rich.

I can understand the logic, but yeah, it's still disappointing, because I think if they had picked one or the other and thrown the romance element into play more, with Yoshiyuki falling hard for either Otome or Yume, it could have been an even better, more dramatic story. Maybe they'll sell more to the game fans this way, but I think for people who haven't played the game (like me) they've ended up eviscerating the best part of the story. Then again, game players are doubtlessly who they're catering to the most, and they sure as hell don't care what some schmuck in the US like me thinks, since they're not giving me the chance to pay $3 an ep like Gonzo does through BOST, and I doubt DCIISS will ever see an R1 DVD release either. Although if anyone from an Region 1 distributor is listening, I'd buy the original Da Capo on DVD in an instant.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by suguru

Spoiler for DCIISS ending:

It's impossible to read their minds, of course, but I think we're kind of saying the same thing--I can picture them sitting down thinking "well, if we go Otome's route and cut all the Yume scenes, Yume fans are far less likely to buy the DVDs, and vice-versa, so let's throw in BOTH routes and just leave the ending wide-open." Then fans of each girl can get to see their route from the game animated, and each faction can plausibly imagine a scenario where their preferred heroine "wins" (although admittedly, they seemed to favor Otome, to me anyway). More DVD sales, and everyone's happy and goes home rich.

Spoiler:

Actually, I intended for that to not be what I was saying. Maybe it's just semantics, but to me, it's not about pleasing or displeasing Yume's fans or Otome's fans. It's more general than that. Both Yume and Otome's end-game scenarios are the best parts of the game as it relates to the overall D.C. story. By cutting either sets of scenes, you be eliminating some of the game's best parts. Like I said, I don't think either fanboy angle would walk away truly happy with this adaptation, because they were "robbed" of all the romance scenes from the game. But I think people who were fans of the "D.C. II story" in general would be satisfied with the way the show stayed true to the game's story. And I'll agree that, at the very least, people who were fanboys of one girl or the other won't have any reason to believe that their favourite girl was "shafted" in the anime.

Basically, I think you're overestimating how much "appeasing character fanboys" played into their decision-making. If anything, the anime really didn't do anything to appease the fanboys of any given character, because none of them had their romantic aspirations come true. In fact, the show relished in showing us how their romances didn't work out: Nanaka, Koko, and, to a certain degree, Yume. If you want my honest opinion, I really see the whole anime as a tease to get people to want to play the game, because no heroine's story is completely resolved. The original D.C. anime felt more standalone, complete, and "final" because, at the time, they probably had no idea if they'd ever make another anime.

Originally Posted by suguru

Spoiler for DCIISS ending:

I can understand the logic, but yeah, it's still disappointing, because I think if they had picked one or the other and thrown the romance element into play more, with Yoshiyuki falling hard for either Otome or Yume, it could have been an even better, more dramatic story. Maybe they'll sell more to the game fans this way, but I think for people who haven't played the game (like me) they've ended up eviscerating the best part of the story. Then again, game players are doubtlessly who they're catering to the most, and they sure as hell don't care what some schmuck in the US like me thinks, since they're not giving me the chance to pay $3 an ep like Gonzo does through BOST, and I doubt DCIISS will ever see an R1 DVD release either. Although if anyone from an Region 1 distributor is listening, I'd buy the original Da Capo on DVD in an instant.

Spoiler:

Well, I don't know if it really will pay off for them or not (anime DVD sales haven't been all that hot -- average at best, and less than previous series), but regardless, I think it got people interested in playing the PS2 game, which was arguably their true objective. Even though I'm saying that I think I understand what they did with the anime due to playing the game, that doesn't necessarily mean that I'm saying that all game players would love the anime as a result. I think they'll at least understand it, and that's something, but anime based on bishoujo games (other than Key works) aren't selling like they used to. And this is, after all, a romance anime without consummated romance -- it's only because of the franchise's long history that it can get away with something like that.

And you never know about licensing -- with the original D.C. game being released in English soon, it might not be a bad time for someone to license the original anime. But I certainly agree that, when they wrote these stories, they really weren't doing it with the International market in mind. You never know, though -- that may change with D.C. III.

[MonkeyDude]

Completely forgot that this thread existed...

I've read the visual novel before and I agree with how they adapted the storyline into DCII:SS (DCII...they seriously could have done a lot better). I would have seriously preferred the romance (just not a harem series unless the male lead gets hitched at the end), but I agree with rf that viewers would have missed on some of the best parts of the game if they specifically picked a pairing. So many things were either skipped or hinted at that curious viewers might just decide to pick up a copy of the game to see what's up (and the courtesy ero-scene of course).

For the shipping lanes...(if it does exist)

I would think that Nanaka fans would either be somewhat happy or deliriously angry with her treatment. I enjoyed the 'magical' closure of her budding romance (total WTF moment if you don't know the name of Shirakawa) but many would have been annoyed at the lack of apperances (Is that you Nanaka?).

For Koko...just tragic...Sure its nice that she actually did get hitched to the male lead...but not when the writers decided to give him the IQ of a brick when it comes to relationships.

For Minatsu...no comment since I don't like her that much
For Anzu...lack of goth loli makes everyone cry

In retrospect, every other girl sans Otome and Yume were shafted to make room for the 'canon' story of DC2 (although I would think this would have been inevitable to begin wtih).

Again I'll just say that I would have heavily preferred the romance in DCII:SS or the angst love drama that could have been DCII, but new viewers would have missed out on some neat scenes. If given the choice between your moe (and a rather cute tsundere-side) imouto or the charming (and won't kill you with food) onee-chan...can you seriously decide between the two?

@rf
Did you get my reply e-mail?
(is the one who asked about DCII:IF, but has a different s/n in AS boards)
Think someone has my usual nick...

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by MonkeyDude

I would think that Nanaka fans would either be somewhat happy or deliriously angry with her treatment. I enjoyed the 'magical' closure of her budding romance (total WTF moment if you don't know the name of Shirakawa) but many would have been annoyed at the lack of apperances (Is that you Nanaka?).

Yes, this is one of the huge "things you would have known if you had played the game" items in the list, and I was surprised that they never did go back to explain it. If you didn't know what just happened, you'd think she just all of a sudden figured it out. My explanation here is that there's already the D.C. II IF manga, and speaking of which...

Originally Posted by MonkeyDude

@rf
Did you get my reply e-mail?
(is the one who asked about DCII:IF, but has a different s/n in AS boards)
Think someone has my usual nick...

Yes, sorry... just haven't had the time to get back to it yet. Hopefully I'll get the chance to look at that again shortly.

Originally Posted by MonkeyDude

For Koko...just tragic...Sure its nice that she actually did get hitched to the male lead...but not when the writers decided to give him the IQ of a brick when it comes to relationships.

Well, I do think it's tragic in a way, but I personally thought it was actually pretty well played out. The fact that just having a crush on someone and going out with them isn't enough to make a relationship work is a subject that isn't covered very often in anime (which almost invariably are the other way around). So I actually think it's neat that they tried to do something a bit different, and since they weren't going to do the plot from the game (again, sacrificed for the canon story), I sort of liked what they did with it. And with the way things were left, it's not as if the door is completely closed. So even though almost all the plot deviation came at the expense of Yoshiyuki's personality and emotional IQ, I still liked what they did with it overall.

Originally Posted by MonkeyDude

Again I'll just say that I would have heavily preferred the romance in DCII:SS or the angst love drama that could have been DCII, but new viewers would have missed out on some neat scenes. If given the choice between your moe (and a rather cute tsundere-side) imouto or the charming (and won't kill you with food) onee-chan...can you seriously decide between the two?

Ahh... the real question. What I noticed the most, compared to when the original D.C. II anime started, is that I think D.C. II S.S. redeemed Yume, who a lot of English-speaking fans thought they'd dislike since she reminded them at first of Nemu. So, now at the end of the anime, you can actually have people ask themselves that question, which I bet some people never figured they would be asking themselves. People asked me earlier who my favourite D.C. characters are, but now that D.C. II S.S. is over, I'm sort of curious about which characters left the strongest impressions on anime-only viewers as well. Game players were biased.

[Tran225]

Spoiler for questions:

ok just finished e13, now that its over will there be season 3? and uhh since yoshiyuki came back does that mean more back accidents are gonna happen again? because the reason they had to get rid of yoshiyuki was to stop the negative effect of the wishes right?

[MonkeyDude]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

Well, I do think it's tragic in a way, but I personally thought it was actually pretty well played out. The fact that just having a crush on someone and going out with them isn't enough to make a relationship work is a subject that isn't covered very often in anime (which almost invariably are the other way around). So I actually think it's neat that they tried to do something a bit different, and since they weren't going to do the plot from the game (again, sacrificed for the canon story), I sort of liked what they did with it. And with the way things were left, it's not as if the door is completely closed. So even though almost all the plot deviation came at the expense of Yoshiyuki's personality and emotional IQ, I still liked what they did with it overall.

The problem is that Koko did try to make the relationship work while Yoshiyuki did his utmost best to completely ignore her. Now this would be alright if he refused her confession...but the guy accepted it without investing any amount of emotional (and physical) effort into it. They didn't do anything but make viewers hate Yoshiyuki (although not to Makoto-esque levels). They tried to be unique and utterly failed at it (a testament to the amount of viewers DCII:SS had). If they did the love angst drama and shoved little tidbits or just completely remove Minatsu's story, pretty sure DCII would have been received better...

[Sorrow-K]

To be fair to Minatsu's story, it's an interesting idea (ie, a man-made AI with programmed human emotions trying to deal with society's expectations for machines to be emotionless) that's been brought up in anime and other media fairly often, but I really can't think up an example of anime or Japanese media where I've seen it done really well. One of the more passable examples is

Spoiler for Ever 17:

Sora, from Ever 17

but even this eventually devolved into soapy melodrama.

DCII can at least take solace in the fact that it executed this idea better than Chobits, which butchered it, absolutely butchered it.

[Taricitous]

just finished the series, thought it had a nice ending
(ignoring the questions it left us),
it offered a very different feeling from D.C and D.C.S.S wif a bit more complications i thought which was interesting

MMM

Spoiler for wat i thought, questions n replies:

@ ending not been clear wif winner/loser, dun rly care as long as it made sense which it did BECOS there wasnt a winner, if u lived together wif 2 girls for 10 yrs (rather attractive 1s) and was asked who will u pick, do u rly have an honest answer to dat??? i couldnt bring myself picking 1 personally on the other note picking koko just wouldnt b rite now would it? read below

@ Koko mmmm maybe its sad how shes kinda left out in D.C.II S.S but did Yoshiyuki rly liked/loved her? to me it was just him been (him) too nice to say no

@ Nanaka i rly liked her character, however it was nice to c dat she didnt folo the steps of Kotori from D.C/D.C.S.S not dat im saying she shouldnt i thought in
D.C II S.S Nanaka was put outa the picture, we didnt c her very often n even if we did, it was very brief, which i could only imagine dat the writers didnt want even more into the love square (4) plus the hinting of other characters falling into it more so.

@ Jun'ichi umm dis is more of a question; why n how did he disappear (guessing been 1 wif the tree like Sakura did), wat happend to Nemu!?! and Otome+Yume's parents

@ Anzu, since the tree whithered she's suffering from her memory lost illness again yes? do we assume dat wif the resurrection of the tree she goes back to the way she was (good memory) or continues to suffer from her illness????

@ Sakura, after merging wif the tree, have she permanently taken a form of a spirit? like how she was goin around to c how every1s doing? or is it just a day-off thing?, reason behind the cuting her hair short to the pt dat it looks stupid? lastly did she succeed wif her goal of been the filter for wishes after she resurrected the tree?

in the end it was like how Yoshiyuki put it wif the puppet show ending i feel like it was a big clue to wat will happen in the end, and will use it now 'no matter what ending you write, those kind of people will always be like that.' so plz dun judge it like so , i think it deserves credit for a well written story, n like how relentlessflames said a few post up, if u rly want a 1 sided ending then play the game n folo dat instead cheers relentless, i will do dat also

[incube]

Taricitous: U mentioned "resurrection of the sakura tree" but i got the impression that i kind of dissapeared... correct me if i got it wrong.

I also would like to know if there are any plans for a new season or OVAs cause leaving the story like that isnt very nice >.< I had the impression that they would stay like that forever... and the idea of 2 sisters in love with the same guy isnt right .. -.-

[Taricitous]

For incube:

Spoiler for reply:

yea, how it came back alive in spring, after it died and Yoshiyuki disappeared/forgotten. the original sakura tree was replaced by Sakura.

mmm an OVA should b interesting however i dun recall D.C or D.C.S.S having an OVA tho, so it prob wont either besides 2 sisters in love wif 1 guy isnt rly uncommon is it? i dun get how it isnt rite *cough* nuthing wrong wif em either *cough* hehe

[OmegaPhlare]

Is the second season better than the first or is it just different? Reading through this thread, there is talk about this anime being nerfed just to show more parts of the game. That sounds like it would be a horrible experience to someone who hasn't played the game. And this talk about the sakura trees... is it explained clearly in watching the second season or should I re-watch the original Da Capo to get the big picture? Was that anime even sufficient for explaining the sakura trees?

I'm sorry to say it and I'm sure these exact same points have already been made, but Da Capo II the first season was so wrong that I immediately wiped it from my hard drive. I can see why one of the fansub groups lost interest and started leaving spelling errors in the last five episodes. I throw a yellow flag at the banana-hating robot: unnecessary drama. So completely unnecessary that I do not care for nor will I take the time to philosophize on how robot rights should be handled. Now Armitage III... THAT made me think about martian rights and what it had meant to be a robot. When I saw the band playing music at the end of Da Capo first season, I was already screaming "Why the hell did I watch this series!? How dare they! I feel violated (jk)."

This isn't a complaint post. I'm honestly saying that I'm open to watching Second Season if some of you guys don't believe it is a slap to the face. If you didn't like the first season, but you like this one, you would easily convince me to watch it. There are so many mixed opinions right now.

[Taricitous]

Originally Posted by OmegaPhlare

Is the second season better than the first or is it just different? Reading through this thread, there is talk about this anime being nerfed just to show more parts of the game. That sounds like it would be a horrible experience to someone who hasn't played the game. And this talk about the sakura trees... is it explained clearly in watching the second season or should I re-watch the original Da Capo to get the big picture? Was that anime even sufficient for explaining the sakura trees?

I'm sorry to say it and I'm sure these exact same points have already been made, but Da Capo II the first season was so wrong that I immediately wiped it from my hard drive. I can see why one of the fansub groups lost interest and started leaving spelling errors in the last five episodes. I throw a yellow flag at the banana-hating robot: unnecessary drama. So completely unnecessary that I do not care for nor will I take the time to philosophize on how robot rights should be handled. Now Armitage III... THAT made me think about martian rights and what it had meant to be a robot. When I saw the band playing music at the end of Da Capo first season, I was already screaming "Why the hell did I watch this series!? How dare they! I feel violated (jk)."

This isn't a complaint post. I'm honestly saying that I'm open to watching Second Season if some of you guys don't believe it is a slap to the face. If you didn't like the first season, but you like this one, you would easily convince me to watch it. There are so many mixed opinions right now.

OK

Spoiler for To save room + minor spoilers for those who have not seen any D.C series:

1. In what way did you mean by 'Better than the first' ? plot? characters? film techniques? enjoyment?

2. This talk about the sakura TREE (refering to the magical sakura tree that Sakura's grandma planted a while ago that grants wishes good and bad to the person who truly wished for it), in D.C II S.S this sakura tree plays a major part of the plot, however it does self-explain in the series, therefore you shouldnt need to watch/re-watch D.C to explain the tree.

3. The Sakura Tree -> explaination = a magical sakura tree planted by Sakura's grandma to grant/make/keep Sakura happy, saying so it also grants any wish from anyone who truly deeply wished for it whether the wish is in good intensions or bad, example for a good wish -> the Cat who turned into a human for her master (who wanted to be outside with everyone mainly Jun'ichi) and Aisia's wish which reset the events in which Jun'ichi falls in love with Nemu, making alternative relationships (until he picks her), this tree was withered by Sakura in the original D.C (very first series) which was then resurrected then withered again by Aisia in D.C.S.S, The Sakura Tree in D.C II and D.C II S.S is a replicated version of the orginal tree planted by Sakura's grandma

4. I personally think that D.C II S.S is better then the first season BECAUSE the first season to me just went in a loop which left me with a odd feeling or 'huh? what was i watching all this time?', however i enjoyed the S.S since it made alot more sense (as far as magical tree, harem/love triangle +2 more goes), think of D.C II as a character introduction and development series (or a side arc maybe) then D.C II S.S as the plot of the series, however in saying so, you should still watch D.C II for charcters explainations and relationship development in my honest opinion

I hope that helps clear things up for you OmegaPhlare