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Old 2009-10-30, 18:42   Link #381
foxy12
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Originally Posted by DeX-kun View Post
I don't remember any raping going on in this series. The blood only proves that it was Kotonoha's first time having sexual intercourse.
How was she not raped ? he forced himself on her as we've seen ,she didn't ask him to have sex with her either ,she couid've resisted him but she couidn't cuz she was unconscious..IT WAS DEFINITELY RAPE ...
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Old 2009-10-30, 19:22   Link #382
DeX-kun
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Originally Posted by foxy12 View Post
How was she not raped ? he forced himself on her as we've seen ,she didn't ask him to have sex with her either ,she couid've resisted him but she couidn't cuz she was unconscious..IT WAS DEFINITELY RAPE ...
Really? The guy confessed to her and it seems like she was wide awake for everything (of course, not in the right state of mind.) I assume this is the case because the next day he thinks that he's Kotonoha's new boyfriend. She could have resisted but she didn't, so I don't consider it rape.
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Old 2009-10-31, 06:21   Link #383
willyvereb
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Well, it's uncertain, but somehow Kotonoha's clothes and pose suggest something. Either:
-She's broken down because of Makoto and care less about her looks.
-She's been raped by Taisuke and the shock added to all that.

Actually even if it was a rape Kotonoha invited him and it can later turned out that way...in contrast with the scene seen in the VN.

And actually Kontoha was rather nasty a way before the last episode in the anime. She was cruel with Sekai and accused her for everything...far from innocent. Not to mention her acts in the VN.
In the VN Sekia was the "innocent" the one without much malacious intent, while Kotonoha turned out much more vulgar and direct(for example:'Carnal Desire' ending)
But it's Makoto's thread...I know honoring him is out of question, but at least we should honor the forum rules
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Old 2009-11-01, 21:17   Link #384
incube
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Originally Posted by DeX-kun View Post
Really? The guy confessed to her and it seems like she was wide awake for everything (of course, not in the right state of mind.) I assume this is the case because the next day he thinks that he's Kotonoha's new boyfriend. She could have resisted but she didn't, so I don't consider it rape.
What were u doing while watching this anime.... Kotonoha was clearly raped. The only person she ever loved and thought about was Makoto. She clearly refused him during the festival and u clearly see him pushing her to the floor and tears flowing down her eyes while trying to say Makoto.

And u say she could have resisted but didnt... would u "forcefully have sex" with a girl that told u clearly she didnt like u / liked another person ? and while u are "forcefully doing it with her" she is crying and saying the name of her loved one?
Man that is rape >.<
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Old 2009-11-01, 21:58   Link #385
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What were u doing while watching this anime.... Kotonoha was clearly raped. The only person she ever loved and thought about was Makoto. She clearly refused him during the festival and u clearly see him pushing her to the floor and tears flowing down her eyes while trying to say Makoto.

And u say she could have resisted but didnt... would u "forcefully have sex" with a girl that told u clearly she didnt like u / liked another person ? and while u are "forcefully doing it with her" she is crying and saying the name of her loved one?
Man that is rape >.<
Unless we watched different versions of this anime, I didn't see anybody getting raped. I just skimmed through the ending of episode 9 and the beginning of episode 10 and I still don't see why you're calling that rape. You're only assuming that he forced himself and was "pushing her to the floor," because I saw the guy hugging her while telling her he loved her. Everything else happens off-screen in which I didn't see any evidence of her being raped.

The next day Kotonoha even tells the guy "please forget about yesterday as well," which proves that she was well aware of what happened to her and she didn't show any signs of post rape syndrome. So unless you can somehow prove otherwise, I don't consider it rape.
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Old 2009-11-01, 22:34   Link #386
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Unless we watched different versions of this anime, I didn't see anybody getting raped. I just skimmed through the ending of episode 9 and the beginning of episode 10 and I still don't see why you're calling that rape. You're only assuming that he forced himself and was "pushing her to the floor," because I saw the guy hugging her while telling her he loved her. Everything else happens off-screen in which I didn't see any evidence of her being raped.

The next day Kotonoha even tells the guy "please forget about yesterday as well," which proves that she was well aware of what happened to her and she didn't show any signs of post rape syndrome. So unless you can somehow prove otherwise, I don't consider it rape.
Omg... i mentioned it in my previous post already.

She was raped because:

1) She clearly doesnt like him.

2) She tells him clearly that she loves Makoto and no one else before and after the rape.

3) She was clearly in shock after she was told that Makoto betrayed her and even after it.

4) Shock doesnt mean unconciousness

5) Sex means mutual concent. Katsura never agreed >.<

6) In case u didnt notice, she was already loosing it

7) She is the kind of girl that feels awkward even to allow her boyfriend / the person she loves, to hold her hand or touch her breasts... do u think she would concent to have sex with a guy she barely knows and clearly doesnt like?

8) And if all this doesnt make it clear to you that Katsura was raped.... well i have nothing else to say >.<

PS: And i think that "rape" isnt a word i need to check on wiki in order to know what it means.....

and if u actually read what u linked u would notice that she was the personification of all those symptoms...

ill quote a sentence "The natural first reaction to a highly traumatic situation such as rape is to avoid it: by not thinking about it, not talking about it, even pretending it never happened."

She tells Sawagara the following day : "Please forget what happened yesterday" with a blank face.
She doesnt tell anyone what happened and acts as if nothing happened.
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Old 2009-11-01, 22:44   Link #387
DeX-kun
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Omg... i mentioned it in my previous post already.

She was raped because:

1) She clearly doesnt like him.

2) She tells him clearly that she loves Makoto and no one else before and after the rape.

3) She was clearly in shock after she was told that Makoto betrayed her and even after it.

4) Shock doesnt mean unconciousness

5) Sex means mutual concent. Katsura never agreed >.<

6) In case u didnt notice, she was already loosing it

7) She is the kind of girl that feels awkward even to allow her boyfriend / the person she loves, to hold her hand or touch her breasts... do u think she would concent to have sex with a guy she barely knows and clearly doesnt like?

8) And if all this doesnt make it clear to you that Katsura was raped.... well i have nothing else to say >.<

PS: And i think that "rape" isnt a word i need to check on wiki in order to know what it means.....
I'm pretty sure rape is a word.

Well there clearly must have been some type of misunderstanding between Taisuke and Kotonoha because Taisuke doesn't act like he did something wrong (and he doesn't seem to be the type of person to rape someone either.)
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Old 2009-11-01, 22:54   Link #388
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I'm pretty sure rape is a word.

Well there clearly must have been some type of misunderstanding between Taisuke and Kotonoha because Taisuke doesn't act like he did something wrong (and he doesn't seem to be the type of person to rape someone either.)
And Makoto didnt seem the kind of guy he appeared to be in the first couple of episodes....

There was definitly a misunderstanding from Taisuke's part but that doesnt make it more right >.<

As i said before, just because u like a girl and u think she broke up with her boyfriend, doesnt mean u can fuck her. If u do that then ur are raping that girl -.-
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Old 2009-11-01, 23:05   Link #389
DeX-kun
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and if u actually read what u linked u would notice that she was the personification of all those symptoms...

ill quote a sentence "The natural first reaction to a highly traumatic situation such as rape is to avoid it: by not thinking about it, not talking about it, even pretending it never happened."

She tells Sawagara the following day : "Please forget what happened yesterday" with a blank face.
She doesnt tell anyone what happened and acts as if nothing happened.
That's a bit of a stretch. How was she pretending it never happened when she mentioned it to the exact person that she slept with? Kotonoha also didn't seem to be fazed at all when talking to Taisuke so PTRS doesn't apply to her. And if she didn't tell anybody about it, would you? I don't think that's something to be proud of.

I would also appreciate it if you could tone down your rhetoric because it's becoming disrespectful.

Quote:
Originally Posted by incube View Post
And Makoto didnt seem the kind of guy he appeared to be in the first couple of episodes.... There was definitly a misunderstanding from Taisuke's part but that doesnt make it more right >.< As i said before, just because u like a girl and u think she broke up with her boyfriend, doesnt mean u can fuck her. If u do that then ur are raping that girl -.-
Correct me if I'm wrong but I never once said that what Taisuke did was right, if so then please quote me on that. What I'm saying is that I don't consider it rape because she didn't show any signs of PTRS.
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Old 2009-11-02, 00:33   Link #390
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It depends on what we consider rape. I consider rape as a forceful sex with an unwilling partner...and it wasn't that.

Kotonoha was in her emotional downhill and Taisuke used this chance to get her. It wasn't rape because the other side wanted it too, but perhaps she minds it later. But that's all. It's not like Taisuke drugged him or anything.

In the VN, yes he did that, but Kotonoha was unfair and a bitch to her too. She kept her feelings for Makoto and was unwilling to move on while he has him as a boyfriend.
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Old 2009-11-02, 02:11   Link #391
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Speaking of Kotonoha, I've always wondered how she would respond if Makoto cheated on her with Sekai during the second or third episode and she found out about it, before her feelings were quite so intense. Would she have been more willing to dump him then? Would she have placed more blame on Makoto than she did during episode seven?
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Old 2009-11-02, 02:41   Link #392
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Speaking of Kotonoha, I've always wondered how she would respond if Makoto cheated on her with Sekai during the second or third episode and she found out about it, before her feelings were quite so intense. Would she have been more willing to dump him then? Would she have placed more blame on Makoto than she did during episode seven?
That's an interesting question, I believe the results would have been the same considering that it was revealed that Kotonoha actually liked him for quite some time. It didn't take much for Kotonoha to become mentally unstable so I think it was just a matter of time. Maybe if Makoto never confessed to her, still she was in denial for most of the series so it's hard to really say.
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Old 2009-11-02, 03:04   Link #393
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Actually if makoto tells her the truth straight on then things can turn out differently. The very least the tragedy is avoidable if not Kotonoha's breakdown.
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Old 2010-01-21, 23:35   Link #394
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for me.. i think Sekai is to be blamed..

she encouraged Makoto to confess to Kotonoha knowing within herself that she loves him..

if she only encouraged herself to make Makoto notice her feelings without using lust..

after all Makoto became the way he was because of that "Practice" thing..
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Old 2010-01-22, 05:37   Link #395
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Oh, c'mon. He was a big boy and made his own decisions...
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Old 2010-01-22, 07:02   Link #396
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hmm.. not from what he had shown in the series..

he's really immature and it turned out that Sekai was the bad influence..

honestly I'm glad he died, he's a disgrace..
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Old 2010-01-22, 08:02   Link #397
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Yeah, the poor innocent boy was brought down from grace by the evil temptress...

Honestly, that's hogwash. Makoto did what he bloody well wanted, and not because Sekai lured him into the path of evil. He did the things he did because he felt like it. Yeah, he was a disgrace. But that was his own fault, not Sekai's.

That's not to say she didn't have a hand in his derangement process, but I digress... she wasn't the sole responsible for it. Not by a long shot.
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Old 2010-01-22, 09:04   Link #398
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Sekai wasn't much of a bad influence. Her mixed messages were partially at fault, but the whole situation was quite messy in itself.
Makot simply did what the hell he wanted. He was impatient and Sekai had feelings for him which she slowly failed to contain and he choose the easier way. Every single time. It wasn't her influence, more like he realized how easily he can get cookies and he used that method not caring about the consequences.
If anything Sekai is at fault for teaching Makoto such techniques. He used it later for his own enjoyment.
He lacked self-control and willpower. That's all.
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Old 2010-01-23, 07:04   Link #399
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i was wondering how he got his extreme confidence..

in doing such actions.
.
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Old 2010-01-23, 08:14   Link #400
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How? Someone who believed himself to be a looser or at least someone barely popular with girls suddenly getting 4 love interests...if anything it probably gave him enough confidence. Also Sekai's advices and the things he learned by practice are turned out to be rather useful.
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