Madoka Magica - Episode 10 Discussion / Poll

[Endscape]

Wow, what an episode. I give it a perfect score. I was literally praising and cursing Urobuchi the whole time. The pacing was excellent with each timeline following the other well and you could really feel the emotions coming across.

Clumsy, insecure Homura was so cute, really just like current Madoka actually. Puella Magi Madoka was awesome, of a variety not seen since Nanoha.

The poor dear tried so hard and just ended up giving up on everything but her goal. Her actions last episode had cooled me towards her, but I really feel for her now.

I'm quite interested in the finale. Homura herself has probably already given up on this timeline, so it'll either end with the apocalypse or Madoka finding the miraculous way out.

[AvatarST]

Originally Posted by Endscape

I'm quite interested in the finale. Homura herself has probably already given up on this timeline, so it'll either end with the apocalypse or Madoka finding the miraculous way out.

It's probably better if she gives up. If she dies or turns into a witch, it's all over.

With the current state of things, she's better off resetting again. Then again, what could she do to make things better?

[Klashikari]

Originally Posted by Riou17

Another solution for Homura to stop jumping into another timelime is to not save Madoka. I mean from the original timelime, Homura wasn't even a MG and that both Mami and Madoka died saving the world. If Homura tries to save Madoka, she's just prolonging both her and Madoka's suffering. Kyubey won't also get Witch Madoka's energy. Why can't she just go back in time and stop herself from making a contract with Kyubey. I know it's bad but at least she won't see Madoka suffer anymore.

Because that's simply not what Homura wants, and you can't expect someone with that kind of conviction to give up like that. It would also make her efforts for naught.

Either way, even if she takes that path, she won't be able to leave the timeline as it was like the first one. That is because her wish will automatically trigger the time leap, regardless what Homura does, as demonstrated by her reactions when she wakes up all the time. It is even more evident in the third one, when she realizes in the second one that QB was deceiving them.

[fukarming]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

That's not the point. All contracted girls are doomed to become witch. It'll hapen sooner or later.

The only way to actuall save Madoka is preventing her from contracting.

Later rather than sooner, right? At least try to fix the imminent problem first (W-night). Besides, since Madoka is the strongest MG, she should be able to take care of everything other than the W-night, right? Who cares if Madoka turns into a witch 60 years later?

Originally Posted by Shadow5YA

This is under the baseless assumption that Madoka would accept using Grief Seeds. The current Sayaka refused even when she didn't know that Witches used to be Puella Magi. Mami freaked out and turned into a Witch anyway when she found out. What makes you think Madoka, who became a Puella Magi to help others and even asked to be killed in one timeline, would use a Grief Seed when she knows that she would be using the remains of a former Puella Magi?

Madoka will accept the grief seed if she didn't know the truth about MG-> Witches. At least in the first timeline Madoka didn't know about that.

Homura entire objective is to save Madoka from W-night, not saving humanity or other things.

To beat W-night without Madoka contracting from Kyube, it would need some really great writings that none of us had thought of so far.

[Endscape]

Originally Posted by AvatarST

It's probably better if she gives up. If she dies or turns into a witch, it's all over.

With the current state of things, she's better off resetting again. Then again, what could she do to make things better?

If this were any other magical girl show, I'd say "Don't give up!", but since this comes from the mind of Urobuchi, yeah...

[Kanon]

Originally Posted by fukarming

Later rather than sooner, right? At least try to fix the imminent problem first (W-night). Besides, since Madoka is the strongest MG, she should be able to take care of everything other than the W-night, right? Who cares if Madoka turns into a witch 60 years later?

The rest of humanity? It was made clear that the moment Madoka becomes a witch, earth is doomed (loved that Kyubey didn't give a flying fuck about it. "Earth is screwed. Ah well, I met my quota so it's not my problem anymore. See ya!") . Besides, I seriously doubt it'll take her that long to turn into a witch.

Anyway, this isn't even the issue. The only goal Homura is trying to achieve is to grant Madoka's wish, which is to prevent her from becoming a magical girl (and later on a witch).

[totoum]

Originally Posted by fukarming

Who cares if Madoka turns into a witch 60 years later

Well anyone living on earth at that time since madoka witch pretty much means the end of the world.

edit: kanon beat me to it

Also,random comment but the music that starts playing at 18:07 is really badasss.

[AvatarST]

Originally Posted by Endscape

If this were any other magical girl show, I'd say "Don't give up!", but since this comes from the mind of Urobuchi, yeah...

Wel, there's still hope. There's a big difference between this timeline, and timeline 4; Homura knows for a fact she can't take WN by herself, and Madoka knows the truth about QB. What I'm wondering is what they can do about this.

Also, I see someone suggested that Homura goes back to stop herself from contracting. Do we even know if this is possible for her? So far when she turns time back we've seen her wake up in bed as already a MG, and that's the only Homura that exists. We haven't seen "two Homuras".

Originally Posted by Shadow5YA

Mami freaked out and turned into a Witch anyway when she found out.

She turned into a witch? I thought she just freaked out and was killed before she had a chance to cause any more harm.

Originally Posted by Shadow5YA

This is under the baseless assumption that Madoka would accept using Grief Seeds. The current Sayaka refused even when she didn't know that Witches used to be Puella Magi. Mami freaked out and turned into a Witch anyway when she found out. What makes you think Madoka, who became a Puella Magi to help others and even asked to be killed in one timeline, would use a Grief Seed when she knows that she would be using the remains of a former Puella Magi?

She had no problem using one to save Homura, even after she knew the truth.

[Dark Wing]

Originally Posted by Shadow5YA

Pointless. Why give Madoka a premonition from nowhere if she's supposed to be perfectly normal for now?

Well I don't know I'd anyone here has seen the movie The One staring Jet Lee where every time one of his characters alternet selves die the energy and power pasted on to the survivers so what I think that's what he's getting at is that every time one Modoka dies her power passes on to the next one sleeping inside her waiting to be awaked.

Hard to believe I know but remember what Kyuube said so himself the very presents of MGs defies logic itself.

[ars89]

wow, well that explains everything.
Never imagined Homura with glasses and twintails. She looked cute but i prefer her cool style better.

So how many times has she redone everything like 4 or 5 times? Seems like t's the same result every time so she might not be able to change anything.

[Shadow5YA]

Originally Posted by fukarming

Later rather than sooner, right? At least try to fix the imminent problem first (W-night). Besides, since Madoka is the strongest MG, she should be able to take care of everything other than the W-night, right? Who cares if Madoka turns into a witch 60 years later?



Madoka will accept the grief seed if she didn't know the truth about MG-> Witches. At least in the first timeline Madoka didn't know about that.

Homura entire objective is to save Madoka from W-night, not saving humanity or other things.

To beat W-night without Madoka contracting from Kyube, it would need some really great writings that none of us had thought of so far.

Too late for that. Madoka already knows now, and even if she didn't, all Puella Magi inevitably become Witches anyway. They can't hold it off forever.

It's also because Madoka knows that she has held off becoming a Puella Magi. If she didn't, she would have still thought that all Puella Magi were meant to be superheroes like Mami and Sayaka originally thought and became a Puella Magi of her own will.

However, Madoka is needed to get past Walpurgis Night. She is the only one strong enough now to win. It's pointless to prevent Madoka from becoming a Puella Magi if they all get killed on Walpurgis Night anyway.

So the question remains: how can Madoka stop Walpurgis Night without contracting with Kyubey? If she does make a contract and her Soul Gem is extracted, then the best she can hope for is a mercy killing where her Soul Gem is destroyed by a friend like Homura. That time loop has already happened, though.

[Klashikari]

Originally Posted by fukarming

Later rather than sooner, right? At least try to fix the imminent problem first (W-night). Besides, since Madoka is the strongest MG, she should be able to take care of everything other than the W-night, right? Who cares if Madoka turns into a witch 60 years later?

As far as it was demonstrated in several timeloops, especially the last one, the time span for Madoka's transformation is quite short.
Even if she isn't transformed immediately in the last loop, the way QB worded it leaves little doubt regarding how short it will take her to transform.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by Kanon

The rest of humanity? It was made clear that the moment Madoka becomes a witch, earth is doomed (loved that Kyubey didn't give a flying fuck about it. "Earth is screwed. Ah well, I met my quota so it's not my problem anymore. See ya!") .

Yeah, the QBs are no different from how the Angels are portrayed in Supernatural, they just don't give a shit about Humanity as long as they have the foretold match opposing Lucifer to Michael.

[Endscape]

Originally Posted by Kanon

The rest of humanity? It was made clear that the moment Madoka becomes a witch, earth is doomed (loved that Kyubey didn't give a flying fuck about it. "Earth is screwed. Ah well, I met my quota so it's not my problem anymore. See ya!") . Besides, I seriously doubt it'll take her that long to turn into a witch.

I loved that part too. Kyuubeh cares so much for his cattle...

In any case, yeah, the moment Madoka becomes a Puella Magi, the world is doomed anyway, so saving Madoka= saving the world. The problem is that it's nearly impossible to stop Madoka contracting, since the friendly herdsman can come into her room at anytime, and even Homura can't be around her all the time. It's practically a miracle she hasn't contracted already.

Maybe I'm being sentimental, but it seemed that Homura regretted not being able to save Sayaka, in hindsight.n really, no way out of the maze for that poor child. The only way is to destroy Kyuubeh's magic entirely.

[estdesoda]

Originally Posted by Shadow5YA

So the question remains: how can Madoka stop Walpurgis Night without contracting with Kyubey? If she does make a contract and her Soul Gem is extracted, then the best she can hope for is a mercy killing where her Soul Gem is destroyed by a friend like Homura. That time loop has already happened, though.

Get some war machine rooooliing!!

If machine gun and C4 works on witches, maybe the same works for other weapons, too

Get Homura to kidnap some very important person (politician, or millitary staff), send them into the witches world and convince them that humanity is facing a problem, broadcast this news to everything on earth, and send soldiers equppied with modern technology weapons to fight the witches! (er)

[Hagoshod]

It's pretty obvious that the only way to save Madoka is to stop the system.

Allowing Madoka to become a Magical Girl at any point is out of the question. Any time she does, it only guarantees she either dies in the final battle or becomes a Witch herself. Unless she uses some wacky method that's outside of the system to get her powers (the whole "she'll use her memories of things that haven't actually happened to draw MAGIC!" nonsense), there's no way she can become a MG.

As far as Homura already giving up on this timeline, I don't think so. If anything, this is the closest she's come yet to setting everything right. This timeline has given each character their happiest possible outcome. Mami died relatively happy and naive; having no idea of the curse put on her. Sayaka was able to end Kamijou's suffering. Yeah, she went through Hell to do it, but it's the only thing she ever truly wanted and her Witch form probably didn't live long enough have a substantial negative impact. Kyoko died learning how to care for others again, and possibly leaving Homura with a new idea as to how to deal with Walpurgis on her own.

That being said, Homura has already tried taking on Walpurgis on her own with organized attacks. That obviously failed, but she has yet to try Kyoko's new strategy of pouring all of her lifeforce into a single attack. If it worked, that would mean Walpurgis would be destroyed while all of the potential future Witches (including Homura herself) are dead. Madoka would be left with full knowledge of Kyubei's ways, with absolutely no imperative to become a Magical Girl herself. The system is defeated.

The only thing I can think of that would be rage-inducing about this ending is the possibility of Madoka getting all blubbery over Homura's sacrifice and making the same wish Homura made, restarting the entire futile loop. I hope Urobuchi is going to give an actual ending to all of this.

[Squarecrow]

Originally Posted by Mentar

Kaijo should be happy. Several of his "plot holes" were closed this ep.

What "plot holes" exactly?

<-- Slow download

[Jin Kizuite]

Phew, finally caught up with the anime.

Speculations on how this is gonna end? They didnt show that future glimpse in the opening of episode 1 for nothing. But then again is another loop really going to be a satisfying ending?

Will Madoka's wish differ in a way that will break Homura's timejump loop?
Someone conspire with me to think of the bitter sweet ending this anime is going for.

[RedWing]

Amazing. Simply amazing.

The scene where Homura shoots Madoka could've been grimmer though

[fukarming]

Originally Posted by Kanon

The rest of humanity? It was made clear that the moment Madoka becomes a witch, earth is doomed (loved that Kyubey didn't give a flying fuck about it. "Earth is screwed. Ah well, I met my quota so it's not my problem anymore. See ya!") . Besides, I seriously doubt it'll take her that long to turn into a witch.

Anyway, this isn't even the issue. The only goal Homura is trying to achieve is to grant Madoka's wish, which is to prevent her from becoming a magical girl (and later on a witch).

Homura is the only one who holds the power, not the rest of humanity. I don't see Homura care about humanity. I believe, Homura will be satisfied if Madoka and she survived W-night. Go Yuri yuri for 60 years and die together as a witch.

Of course, preventing Madoka become MG, and beating W-night at the same time is the prefect ending. I am trying to figure out what is Homura's minimum requirement of not resetting ie. the minimum requirement for Homura be satisfied.

Originally Posted by Shadow5YA

Too late for that. Madoka already knows now, and even if she didn't, all Puella Magi inevitably become Witches anyway. They can't hold it off forever.

That's why I think this timeline is screwed. I am planning for Homura for the next timeline.

Originally Posted by Shadow5YA

However, Madoka is needed to get past Walpurgis Night. She is the only one strong enough now to win. It's pointless to prevent Madoka from becoming a Puella Magi if they all get killed on Walpurgis Night anyway.

Agree. I think it has been established that Madoka is needed for W-night. I will go WTF if all of a sudden Madoka is not needed.

Originally Posted by Shadow5YA

So the question remains: how can Madoka stop Walpurgis Night without contracting with Kyubey? If she does make a contract and her Soul Gem is extracted, then the best she can hope for is a mercy killing where her Soul Gem is destroyed by a friend like Homura. That time loop has already happened, though.

That's why I said if Uroboshi want to go for the best ending route (Madoka stopping W-night without contracting with Kyube), it needs to be really great writing without giving the audience a WTF feeling.

Originally Posted by Klashikari

As far as it was demonstrated in several timeloops, especially the last one, the time span for Madoka's transformation is quite short.
Even if she isn't transformed immediately in the last loop, the way QB worded it leaves little doubt regarding how short it will take her to transform.

Really? I am under the impression that as long as one has grief seed, you won't turn into witches. Of course grief seed eventually run out.


I am fully aware of the "best ending" criteria (Madoka stopping W-night without contracting with Kyube). But given Homura can't even get to a good or even neutral ending, isn't that a bit much to expect she could get the best ending in this timeline?