AnimeSuki Forums

Starks · 2008-07-12, 19:44

Libasa (VLC's new subtitle renderer) is now enabled by default in VLC nightlies (after days of pestering on my behalf) but font loading in mkv files containing ASS scripts is completely broken. Colors are broken as well unless you compile from source using the --enable-asademux --enable-csri flags but even then, the colors are wrong. When you consider the fact that improved subtitle rendering is a cornerstone of the 0.9.0 release, what I've seen so far is encouraging, but still a joke.

I know you guys despise VLC as much as I do, but rather than demonize the player and use it as a source of ridicule in script comments, perhaps it's time we made our grievances clear to the developers and perhaps even act as a positive catalyst to make the nightmarish player just a tad bit better. Adding fansubber insight on critical bugs through their IRC channel, forums, or mailing lists certainly couldn't hurt. ^_^

Relevant bugs:

http://trac.videolan.org/vlc/ticket/1601
http://trac.videolan.org/vlc/ticket/1622

Craymel · 2008-07-12, 20:33

I've checked out the nightly build for vlc but subtitles still don't support proper styles. Although subtitles don't overlap any more and are put in the proper position. Maybe styles will be supported once it gets out of beta.

Starks · 2008-07-12, 20:37

Styling has regressed a bit, so I'm not sure if it actually will. <__<

martino · 2008-07-12, 21:01

Can we still break it with "I R A MAGIX LINE! {257 char str}"?

Craymel · 2008-07-12, 21:27

I know if you play any gg release in it. You can see it beg for mercy. Also episode 13 of code geass crashes vlc 0.8.6. Also 0.9.0 renders japanese characters as blocks.

Starks · 2008-07-12, 21:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craymel

I know if you play any gg release in it. You can see it beg for mercy. Also episode 13 of code geass crashes vlc 0.8.6. Also 0.9.0 renders japanese characters as blocks.

Like I've said, styling has regressed, especially in the UTF-8 department. Japanese displayed mostly correct a week or two ago...

Craymel · 2008-07-12, 21:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Starks

Like I've said, styling has regressed, especially in the UTF-8 department. Japanese displayed mostly correct a week or two ago...

I guess I should check it out again but I'm not expecting anything much till it's out of beta.

Edit: This style fix hasn't been implemented in the beta release yet I'm afraid. I'll check continually for updates in the beta though.

Jiyuu · 2008-07-13, 01:11

but whats the point of working on VLC when theres an alternative that does everything much better then it, MPlayer.
wouldn't it be better to direct the effort over there?

Dark Shikari · 2008-07-13, 01:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiyuu

but whats the point of working on VLC when theres an alternative that does everything much better then it, MPlayer.
wouldn't it be better to direct the effort over there?

Mplayer is a pretty dead-ish project at this point--I haven't seen serious development there for ages. Nearly all the improvements in mplayer are actually in the libraries under the ffmpeg project.

Its not utterly dead, but there's definitely at least a lull.

Jiyuu · 2008-07-13, 01:59

why is it dead?
there are so many people using it, there should at least be some programmers amongst them to help develop it.
isn't that the point of open source?

or was it simply forked and most of the work being done is done on the forks?

Dark Shikari · 2008-07-13, 02:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiyuu

why is it dead?
there are so many people using it, there should at least be some programmers amongst them to help develop it.
isn't that the point of open source?

or was it simply forked and most of the work being done is done on the forks?

Most of the development is on the decoding/encoding/muxing/demuxing/etc backend in ffmpeg; few see that much more to work on in mplayer. Its also because mencoder is very deprecated; its encoding system is not really compatible with MKV/MP4 and variable framerate.

jfs · 2008-07-13, 06:50

It's a shame equinox (the developer of asa) has mostly lost interest/don't have time any longer, I'd love to see asa completed to a point of being a complete replacement for VSFilter. I don't know who's working on asa now, but it sounds like they have some trouble

If anyone wants to talk to equinox he (sometimes) sits in the Aegisub IRC channel, but it is hard to get hold of him :P

Jiyuu · 2008-07-13, 07:08

is there any need to replace VSFilter?
i mean its been one of the more reliable things i got to work with..

martino · 2008-07-13, 07:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiyuu

is there any need to replace VSFilter?
i mean its been one of the more reliable things i got to work with..

Uhuh... http://asa.diac24.net/VSFilter

Harro bugs!

dj_tjerk · 2008-07-13, 07:17

blugh.. martino was faster >_>

Personally, I experience the avisynth path bug, and the fade to gray bug as being quite annoying, though one can easily work around those.

Starks · 2008-07-13, 10:24

Yet, despite all of its bugs and faults, fansubbers still use vsfilter as their rendering standard. In many respects, MPlayer's impementation of libass and Aegisub's implementation of libasa deserves equal consideration in that regard.

Kovensky · 2008-07-15, 22:11

Evgeniy Stepanov's libass rocks. When I hardsub something for DVDs, for example, I use mplayer+ffmpeg just because of it (and also because I'm on linux). I only got some problems with it on some Menclave scripts, like Macross F, but according to Evgeniy it is the script's fault for exploiting VSFilter bugs. I use MPlayer all the time and everywhere, I compile myself every component it uses and I can get mplayer+ffh264 to play Menclave's Gundam 00 faster than MPC+CoreAVC (single core processor here).

I subscribe to both ffmpeg-devel and mplayer-dev-eng and I can say the projects aren't dead. I also make daily builds of them to test the new features. MPlayer really doesn't has many things to change; it only implements VOs, AOs and filters. Real encoding/decoding is done by FFmpeg. I think the only major problem with both projects is that there is an internal fight because one rogue developer isn't following rules.

I also subscribe to vlc-devel, and hell those git messages are annoying! :P I don't read most of the mail tough, I care more about MPlayer.
The good part is that those messages show VLC is getting some serious development effort into it; too bad the only one I saw that worked for "-- please stay polite --" support is equinox as a SoC project and he didn't even finish it.

As for libasa, the last commit on the git repo is from march and it is from Rafael Carré, a.k.a. funman, who just retired from VLC.

jfs · 2008-07-16, 04:56

VSFilter has some obvious rendering faults (like the \be1 + \bord smaller than 1.5 + alpha higher than 1 artifacts) but apart from those, it's the reference rasterizer for ASS. In fact, VSFilter is the specification for how to render ASS subtitles. If your rendering is different from VSFilter then it's wrong. By definition. Unfortunately.
Writing an ASS renderer involves being bug-for-bug compatible with VSFilter.

Starks · 2008-07-16, 16:26

jfs. what about the vsfilter code forks?

Kovensky · 2008-07-16, 16:53

Lol I didn't know VSFilter had a fork. If they can get it to work on 64-bit Linux, then I'll adopt it

As for VLC, I cloned the git repo and I'm building it right now, with csri+asademux. I'll post my impressions later.

2008-07-12, 19:44	Link #1
Starks I see what you did there! Scanlator Join Date: Apr 2004 Age: 36	A glimmer of hope for VLC? Libasa (VLC's new subtitle renderer) is now enabled by default in VLC nightlies (after days of pestering on my behalf) but font loading in mkv files containing ASS scripts is completely broken. Colors are broken as well unless you compile from source using the --enable-asademux --enable-csri flags but even then, the colors are wrong. When you consider the fact that improved subtitle rendering is a cornerstone of the 0.9.0 release, what I've seen so far is encouraging, but still a joke. I know you guys despise VLC as much as I do, but rather than demonize the player and use it as a source of ridicule in script comments, perhaps it's time we made our grievances clear to the developers and perhaps even act as a positive catalyst to make the nightmarish player just a tad bit better. Adding fansubber insight on critical bugs through their IRC channel, forums, or mailing lists certainly couldn't hurt. ^_^ Relevant bugs: http://trac.videolan.org/vlc/ticket/1601 http://trac.videolan.org/vlc/ticket/1622 __________________ My list of garbage anime Last edited by Starks; 2008-07-16 at 17:20.

2008-07-12, 20:37	Link #3
Starks I see what you did there! Scanlator Join Date: Apr 2004 Age: 36	Styling has regressed a bit, so I'm not sure if it actually will. <__< __________________ My list of garbage anime

2008-07-12, 21:01	Link #4
martino makes no files now Join Date: May 2006	Can we still break it with "I R A MAGIX LINE! {257 char str}"? __________________ "Light and shadow don't battle each other, because they're two sides of the same coin"

2008-07-12, 21:27	Link #5
Craymel Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2008	I know if you play any gg release in it. You can see it beg for mercy. Also episode 13 of code geass crashes vlc 0.8.6. Also 0.9.0 renders japanese characters as blocks. __________________ For proper anime playback use: CCCP--Mplayer--Perian

2008-07-13, 06:50	Link #12
jfs Aegisub dev Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Age: 39	It's a shame equinox (the developer of asa) has mostly lost interest/don't have time any longer, I'd love to see asa completed to a point of being a complete replacement for VSFilter. I don't know who's working on asa now, but it sounds like they have some trouble If anyone wants to talk to equinox he (sometimes) sits in the Aegisub IRC channel, but it is hard to get hold of him :P __________________ Aegisub developer [ Forum \| Manual \| Feature requests \| Bug reports \| IRC ] Don't ask for: More VSFilter changes (I won't), karaoke effects, help in PM's

2008-07-12, 20:33	Link #2
Craymel Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2008	I've checked out the nightly build for vlc but subtitles still don't support proper styles. Although subtitles don't overlap any more and are put in the proper position. Maybe styles will be supported once it gets out of beta.

2008-07-13, 01:11	Link #8
Jiyuu Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Rehovot,Israel Age: 36	but whats the point of working on VLC when theres an alternative that does everything much better then it, MPlayer. wouldn't it be better to direct the effort over there?

2008-07-13, 01:59	Link #10
Jiyuu Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Rehovot,Israel Age: 36	why is it dead? there are so many people using it, there should at least be some programmers amongst them to help develop it. isn't that the point of open source? or was it simply forked and most of the work being done is done on the forks?

2008-07-13, 07:08	Link #13
Jiyuu Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Rehovot,Israel Age: 36	is there any need to replace VSFilter? i mean its been one of the more reliable things i got to work with..

2008-07-13, 07:17	Link #15
dj_tjerk Ana-chan~ Join Date: May 2006 Location: Netherlands	blugh.. martino was faster >_> Personally, I experience the avisynth path bug, and the fade to gray bug as being quite annoying, though one can easily work around those.

2008-07-13, 10:24	Link #16
Starks I see what you did there! Scanlator Join Date: Apr 2004 Age: 36	Yet, despite all of its bugs and faults, fansubbers still use vsfilter as their rendering standard. In many respects, MPlayer's impementation of libass and Aegisub's implementation of libasa deserves equal consideration in that regard. __________________ My list of garbage anime

2008-07-15, 22:11	Link #17
Kovensky Timer Fansubber Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Brazil Age: 34	Evgeniy Stepanov's libass rocks. When I hardsub something for DVDs, for example, I use mplayer+ffmpeg just because of it (and also because I'm on linux). I only got some problems with it on some Menclave scripts, like Macross F, but according to Evgeniy it is the script's fault for exploiting VSFilter bugs. I use MPlayer all the time and everywhere, I compile myself every component it uses and I can get mplayer+ffh264 to play Menclave's Gundam 00 faster than MPC+CoreAVC (single core processor here). I subscribe to both ffmpeg-devel and mplayer-dev-eng and I can say the projects aren't dead. I also make daily builds of them to test the new features. MPlayer really doesn't has many things to change; it only implements VOs, AOs and filters. Real encoding/decoding is done by FFmpeg. I think the only major problem with both projects is that there is an internal fight because one rogue developer isn't following rules. I also subscribe to vlc-devel, and hell those git messages are annoying! :P I don't read most of the mail tough, I care more about MPlayer. The good part is that those messages show VLC is getting some serious development effort into it; too bad the only one I saw that worked for "-- please stay polite --" support is equinox as a SoC project and he didn't even finish it. As for libasa, the last commit on the git repo is from march and it is from Rafael Carré, a.k.a. funman, who just retired from VLC.

2008-07-16, 04:56	Link #18
jfs Aegisub dev Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Age: 39	VSFilter has some obvious rendering faults (like the \be1 + \bord smaller than 1.5 + alpha higher than 1 artifacts) but apart from those, it's the reference rasterizer for ASS. In fact, VSFilter is the specification for how to render ASS subtitles. If your rendering is different from VSFilter then it's wrong. By definition. Unfortunately. Writing an ASS renderer involves being bug-for-bug compatible with VSFilter. __________________ Aegisub developer [ Forum \| Manual \| Feature requests \| Bug reports \| IRC ] Don't ask for: More VSFilter changes (I won't), karaoke effects, help in PM's

2008-07-16, 16:26	Link #19
Starks I see what you did there! Scanlator Join Date: Apr 2004 Age: 36	jfs. what about the vsfilter code forks? __________________ My list of garbage anime

2008-07-16, 16:53	Link #20
Kovensky Timer Fansubber Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Brazil Age: 34	Lol I didn't know VSFilter had a fork. If they can get it to work on 64-bit Linux, then I'll adopt it As for VLC, I cloned the git repo and I'm building it right now, with csri+asademux. I'll post my impressions later.