The one where Genji and Kanon when to get Eva and Hideyoshi? It was drawn in a matter of minutes.. I dont really know how a 9 year old (was it?) gurl.. could pull of that kind of trick...Poor maria...
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The blog of truths.
What do you guys think about this one?
I probably made a mistake here or there, but for the most part, I think the reasoning's solid.
Spoiler for Theory on the Culprit:
I'm not sure if this theory has been brought up before, but here goes:
Episode 1 - The killer is Rosa, I think. With the faces all destroyed on the 1st Twilight, Rosa could easily fake her own death. This theory also assumes that Maria is an accomplice. Since Rosa is the person who has knowledge about
Maria's notebook (being her mother and all), she might have been the one to draw all those circles (or maybe Maria did it).
This could also explain why Maria didn't give a damn when the survivors told her that her mother was dead. And also why Maria was happy to see 'Beatrice' at the end, since it was most likely her mother.
Episode 2 - The killer is Rosa, again. We see several suspicious scenes, like the part where Rosa is shown with the other siblings in the chapel before the 1st twilight. And only Rosa and Maria were there when Beatrice appeared.
Again, the magic symbols were present on the crime scenes.
The chase scene at the end is probably Rosa and Maria escaping with the gold from other people on the island who arrived on the island during the aftermath. (probably the police or something), but they surely were running from other people.
I focus on Rosa because she's the one who is hiding her intelligence and feigning stupidity. She also has the motive for killing her siblings (as shown on scenes where they bully her and hate her because she was stupid).
Episode 3 - The first killer was Rosa. She probably killed the 6 for the 1st Twilight, but was killed by Eva upon the discovery of the gold. This explains why there were no more symbols after the 1st Twilight (Since Eva doesn't know a thing about those symbols). Only the numbers 07151129 were used by Eva to add some kind of supernatural feel to the murders.
Eva is shown as the killer for the 2nd half of Ep3. No need to explain that one.
She probably followed the epitaph on a whim just to confuse the others and didn't know if killing in some way was "correct" like the epitaph states, as seen on the clues on the death descriptions of several people after Rosa died:
Rosa "She was the sacrifice for the birth of the new witch" (meaning a different killer) Krauss "If only there wasn't that stupid epitaph, I wouldn't have needed a stake. What a pain." Natsuhi "Why follow the epitaph in the first place? A game?" Eva "From here on, a stake must be the finishing blow. How vulgar." Kyrie "Is it OK to kill in a different way and stick the stake in the corpse?"
yeap i thought of the rosa being the culprit thingy too.
But i dismissed it... Rosa.. wouldnt chew maria and herself up. It must be the "19th" person hiding in the position of one of the "18th" which already died.
However.. in episode 3.. i dont think the true culprit died or anything.. i wont know how Eva would be killing George.. Furthermore George + nanjo were killed in the Same fashion as those in the first twilight .. Therefore.. u can also say that the killer who killed George and Nanjo and the first twilight were the same. Eva should not possess a spear/gun like weapon right?
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The blog of truths.
But i dismissed it... Rosa.. wouldnt chew maria and herself up.
The whole chewing thing is seemingly strange...if you click on those Characters in the TIP mode...it is always labeled as MISSING , though in the text there are information about being chewed...in Beatrice Information it was mentioned that she is immortal so we shouldn't believe the text and the pictures that much
...Though it would be fun to see Rosa trying to chew Maria and herself xD And yes sometimes I'm really sick
Ok fine.. not the chewing thing.. it was hinted in ep 1 that the body parts were all choped up and mixed.. thus mixing up who died and who is alive.. so Rosa.. could have escaped through this use of confusing the police...
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The blog of truths.
I have to wonder - why do we assume that the numbers were put there AFTER George died? After the 6 people died for the 1st Twilight nobody from the group left the guesthouse, excluding Kyrie, Hideyoshi and Rudolph. After that everyone went back to mansion only after discovering Krauss and Natsuhi's corpses.
When they went to the mansion and found the three corpses, they were by the staircase near the entrance and the portrait of Beatrice. They didn't go exploring the mansion after confirming the bodies were dead or anything.
Spoiler for Response to hodil:
Eva DOES possess a Winchester rifle the entire time after the first twilight. All the siblings do. But Eva and Battler were together the entire time before Nanjo's death, so Eva couldn't have done it unless Battler lost sight of her at some point and she killed him. But, looking at the red truth we are presented that's highly unlikely. So a person we thought was dead did the killing, but then died themselves before Eva shot Battler.
My person guess is that this person was either a parent or a servant, the latter more likely, since all the parents were together during the time of the 1st Twilight.
My guess is that Nanjo's killer was Kanon. Because Jessica trusts Kanon and believed he was there. She couldn't see him, so all Kanon had to do was kill Nanjo and then tell Jessica to hide - he probably knew Eva was the murderer after the other Twilights and had to hide Jessica to save her. He might have also believed Nanjo was an accomplice to Eva as well, and wanted Jessica dead. However, I don't believe Kanon is the original culprit, just that he killed Nanjo!
Also...Maria was able to write a freaking letter (which so reminded me of the one from Keiichi) How the heck did she do that? And maybe..the person wasn't Maria herself and just signed as her. Maria's letter also said she wanted to know the truth..but for her the truth was Beatrice, also the letter came a bit late didn't it also her jaw was found...strange
well.. i sorta wanna say is.. there is a possibility that a "beatrice" exists. and can fit into the "Only-18-people-allowed" rule. Cos Kinzo is most probably in his grave... (seriously.. he only had 3 months.. but survived any entire year?)
Eva had her winchester. But we cant explain nanjo's death. And why suspect kanon? His motive to kill Nanjo who was treating Jessica? Unless Nanjo outraged her modesty..( eww.. ) And the person Kanon most probably should kill was Eva.. for injuring Jess's eyes. I still want to believe:
First twilight + George + Nanjo. Killed by Beatrice.
The rest of the random killings. Killed by Eva.
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The blog of truths.
What do you guys think about this one?
I probably made a mistake here or there, but for the most part, I think the reasoning's solid.
Spoiler for Theory on the Culprit:
I'm not sure if this theory has been brought up before, but here goes:
Episode 1 - The killer is Rosa, I think. With the faces all destroyed on the 1st Twilight, Rosa could easily fake her own death. This theory also assumes that Maria is an accomplice. Since Rosa is the person who has knowledge about
Maria's notebook (being her mother and all), she might have been the one to draw all those circles (or maybe Maria did it).
This could also explain why Maria didn't give a damn when the survivors told her that her mother was dead. And also why Maria was happy to see 'Beatrice' at the end, since it was most likely her mother.
Episode 2 - The killer is Rosa, again. We see several suspicious scenes, like the part where Rosa is shown with the other siblings in the chapel before the 1st twilight. And only Rosa and Maria were there when Beatrice appeared.
Again, the magic symbols were present on the crime scenes.
The chase scene at the end is probably Rosa and Maria escaping with the gold from other people on the island who arrived on the island during the aftermath. (probably the police or something), but they surely were running from other people.
I focus on Rosa because she's the one who is hiding her intelligence and feigning stupidity. She also has the motive for killing her siblings (as shown on scenes where they bully her and hate her because she was stupid).
Episode 3 - The first killer was Rosa. She probably killed the 6 for the 1st Twilight, but was killed by Eva upon the discovery of the gold. This explains why there were no more symbols after the 1st Twilight (Since Eva doesn't know a thing about those symbols). Only the numbers 07151129 were used by Eva to add some kind of supernatural feel to the murders.
Eva is shown as the killer for the 2nd half of Ep3. No need to explain that one.
She probably followed the epitaph on a whim just to confuse the others and didn't know if killing in some way was "correct" like the epitaph states, as seen on the clues on the death descriptions of several people after Rosa died:
Rosa "She was the sacrifice for the birth of the new witch" (meaning a different killer) Krauss "If only there wasn't that stupid epitaph, I wouldn't have needed a stake. What a pain." Natsuhi "Why follow the epitaph in the first place? A game?" Eva "From here on, a stake must be the finishing blow. How vulgar." Kyrie "Is it OK to kill in a different way and stick the stake in the corpse?"
Spoiler:
I dont really like the ''Rosa and then Rosa/Eva'' theory it has some flaws...
We dont have red text for the first game, we just have alibis. And Rosa didnt have one because she was ''dead''.
In the second game...she could have been the culprit for the first and second twilights. She had no alibi for neither.
But here lies the first problem: In the majority of the killings that occurred after the second twilight, she had an alibi. She was in the lobby the whole time and Battler was by her side.
In the third game Rosa stayed awake all night with her siblings so she couldnt perform the first twilight...And you could say that Eva killed Natsuhi, Kyrie, Hideyoshi, Rudolph , Rosa, Maria and Krauss, but its impossible to say that she killed Nanjo.
So you would need one more culprit to make this theory plausive, but i guess that its not very close to the truth.
My bet is that if Eva killed someone it was Battler and only Battler.
And that she tought she was the culprit of the other serial killings ''because of the witch inside of her'' and went mad when discovered George body.
(Just like keiichi in tatarigoroshi who tought that he killed many people just by wishing their deaths)
Rosa is still fishy, she may be related to everything, but i doubt she is the mastermind.
I have to wonder - why do we assume that the numbers were put there AFTER George died? After the 6 people died for the 1st Twilight nobody from the group left the guesthouse, excluding Kyrie, Hideyoshi and Rudolph. After that everyone went back to mansion only after discovering Krauss and Natsuhi's corpses.
When they went to the mansion and found the three corpses, they were by the staircase near the entrance and the portrait of Beatrice. They didn't go exploring the mansion after confirming the bodies were dead or anything.
Spoiler for Response to hodil:
Eva DOES possess a Winchester rifle the entire time after the first twilight. All the siblings do. But Eva and Battler were together the entire time before Nanjo's death, so Eva couldn't have done it unless Battler lost sight of her at some point and she killed him. But, looking at the red truth we are presented that's highly unlikely. So a person we thought was dead did the killing, but then died themselves before Eva shot Battler.
My person guess is that this person was either a parent or a servant, the latter more likely, since all the parents were together during the time of the 1st Twilight.
My guess is that Nanjo's killer was Kanon. Because Jessica trusts Kanon and believed he was there. She couldn't see him, so all Kanon had to do was kill Nanjo and then tell Jessica to hide - he probably knew Eva was the murderer after the other Twilights and had to hide Jessica to save her. He might have also believed Nanjo was an accomplice to Eva as well, and wanted Jessica dead. However, I don't believe Kanon is the original culprit, just that he killed Nanjo!
That's a good point about the numbers, but...
Spoiler for Red text:
Kinzo, Genji, Gohda, Kumasawa, Kanon, and Shannon are dead was confirmed after the first twilight
That's mean hodil xD And I think it was kinda funny..our reactions must have been hilarious. Also it would give to much space for speculating again and the definition of every word has to be asked then
But you are right. I did lead you on on purpose, and forgive me, but it worked, your reactions were hilarious. There's a lot of things we give for granted and haven't been explained. For example, in our game, I never mentioned the other door to the kitchen, everyone assumed there was just one door. And even though I posted that there wasn't any secret passages, it didn't fall in that cathegory because it was there for everyone to see, I just didn't mention it in the text itself (and you guys never asked.)
I support the idea of Rosa as the killer in episode 1. In addition to the points raised, Rosa's struck me as the only family member likely to just cut ties. Eva & Hideyoshi cared about saving his business and similarly with Rudolf & Kyrie; Rosa didn't care that much about preserving her present and could just fake her death.
I support the idea that episodes 1 and 2 had the same villains. (Phrasing of the first letter, order of circles, and savagery in the first twilight match.)
I still have a problem with the fact that she gave herself an alibi for the first twilight and then spoiled it by fetching the key herself. Got an explanation for that last item?
Actually for what concerns eposode1 i don't see more reasons to suspect Rosa than anyone else. This theory is based on the premise that Rosa could fake her death, but rationally speaking how did she do that? According to the tips her head was crushed, you need to be quite a make-up artist to pull it off against a doctor. If she really wanted to fake her death, wasn't more easier and logical to let her face be visible?
You see, there is a better theory for that, the culprit could have used Kinzo's body to create a false body. Destroying faces then makes sense. The skeleton on the boiler room probably isn't a human body at all, just a manufacted reproduction. Of course there's no way you can make Kinzo appear as a woman even destroying its face, so a male culprit is more logic.
As for episode2, in many cases Rosa had alibies. She was with Battler George and Maria when Jessica and Kanon died for example. Also she gave the best reason to not doubt her herself. If she was the culprit then she could have just killed the remaining people with ease. She had a gun, the others didn't. It's not like she could really be afraid to make her daughter see bad things at that point.
Spoiler for Counterargument to Jan-Poo's last point:
Who's to say that Rosa wanted to kill everyone else? Look at the ending of episode 3 for the problems with being sole survivor. She certainly had motive to kill at the first twilight (to secure her inheritance), but perhaps that was all.
Spoiler for More wildspec:
Note that the first letter in eps 1 and 2 is rather vague. It's not until the first twilight is discovered that they realize that "everything of the Ushiromiya family" includes their lives. It says "a chance to preserve your wealth and fortune". It doesn't mention "preserve your lives". "Give back even the interest that I took" doesn't make sense with murder. I propose that letter was meant literally and never referred to murder at all.
This requires two persons / groups:
Beatrice-A: A resident of the island. Knows of Kinzo's death and the coverup thereof. Has his ring. Wrote the all the letters in ep 1, and the first letter in ep 2. (Perhaps B-A was trying to get them to solve the riddle, or bring up the death of 1967 Beatrice, or was Rosa trying to assuage her conscience about 1967 Beatrice.)
Beatrice-B: Noticed the ambiguity of the first letter when it was read and decided to exploit it, setting up Beatrice-A as scapegoat. Probably was not aware of Kinzo's death.
Once the killings started, Beatrice-A wouldn't explain her/his part, and I think B-A got killed off fairly early on. In episode 1, B-B found only the letters B-A had written in advance; in episode 2, B-B was able to find the ring. (Must check: were the later letters in episode 2 sealed?)
Who's to say that Rosa wanted to kill everyone else?
So you say that she only wanted to kill her brothers? Then she adopted quite a strange behaviour for the first twilight on ep1 and even a stranger one for ep3. What's the point of killing servants and not killing some of the probable heirs? This only makes sense if she planned to kill everyone, then it wouldn't matter who to kill first. The episode2 is the only one who could be considered rational, but what about the funny halloween scenario?
Quote:
Look at the ending of episode 3 for the problems with being sole survivor. She certainly had motive to kill at the first twilight (to secure her inheritance), but perhaps that was all
Money is a reason that many people other than Rosa could have. The ingots existence could make you suspect even the servants. However there is no real basis to suspect Rosa, she never seemed to aim as being the heir, you'd have to think that all of what she said to Eva on episode3 and all of her keeping a low profile is a lie, you might as well suspect Shannon then.
PLease support the uu~ fanclub There are somethings i believe everyone ( who are still humane) cant do.. and especially not kill an entire of your own kin by yourself.
Maybe the characters in the story were right afterall.. they kept suspecting that a "19th" person existed... and we have all been doubting that cos we know of the red truth that only 18 people could exist. However... what if the charcters were right??
Eva-beatrice's list of everyones death neglected their time of death. Including Kinzo... Isnt it easy for a "19th" person to be an imposter or maybe slip into their midst without anyone knowing? (At the same time.. including the "19th" person.. there will only be 18 people, assuming one member was dead b4 the game)
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The blog of truths.
You referred to Rosa's actions in episode 2, so I meant the same Rosa. And I'm not claiming anything about her motives; I'm just saying "We don't know what the villain's overall goal is, so we can't read too much into a suspect's failure to do something." Also, complex crime stories are often the result of a plan going wrong. Again, maybe for want of a nail, Rosa wanted to be the decider for once. If all her siblings / siblings-in-law died, she could probably get herself appointed trustee. And she would have been content with six murders, but other things forced her (or there was another independent murderer) to kill further.
hodil:
Spoiler for the other thing from ep. 4 everybody knows:
From what I've heard, Beatrice confirms that Kinzo was dead all along, and then adds that there were only 17 people or fewer.
No episode 4 spoilers in episode 3 thread please ;3
Spoiler for Rosa:
As far as Rosa wanting to kill everyone goes, I don't believe that. Rosa only had a very high disliking of her father and older siblings. She wasn't on as good of terms with Hideyoshi as she was with Natsuhi and Kyrie, but she liked her siblings spouses more than them. She had no quarrels with the kids either, albeit she was abusive to Maria she still loved her, and was friendly with the servants. If Rosa did do it, it wasn't because she hated everyone.
Spoiler for Culprit X:
As far as her being Culprit X I don't doubt it too much. But, unfortunately it's impossible. Beatrice stated in red that Rosa and Maria were dead, so they can't be Culprit X.
Only people that could be Culprit X are Kyrie, Rudolph, Hideyoshi, George, Krauss or Natsuhi. One of the first three is more likely because they were in the mansion after their death and George has an alibi for the majority of the killings. Krauss and Natsuhi aren't too far fetched either - strangulation doesn't always result in death. Sometimes strangulate people just fall unconscious for a while, due to lack of air.
