[Anime] Umineko - Speculation & Theories (for first time viewers)

[sento]

Motive is the most important thing in Umineko according to Ryukishi.

[Leinne]

Originally Posted by Iromaru

I'm also pretty sure there was a drug or gas that caused hallucinations resembling golden butterflies, but I can't find it right now and I don't remember where I heard it. Maybe enlightment will come later :P

Other than that I can't form any good theory that wasn't mentioned before...

You shouldn't worry too much about the butterflies, if they appar after midnight lie in ep1, the game is over and Beatrice can do whatever she likes. after that Battler never sees one. and if you think about Kanon is either:
1- He didn't really see them and is just for confusing the watchers
2- Or either the heat from the heat +the rotten and burnt smeel from Kinzo's corpse made Kanon hallucinate there were butterflies since he thought he was fighting Beato and his brain associed her to golden butterflies-> hallucination

[ChibiBear]

Golden Butterflies = Symptom of 'Rokkenjima Syndrome'?
It could be like in Higurashi where

Spoiler for Higurashi:

Everyone on the island has a low level until the murders/stranges things start to occur.

In the 2nd Episode, the red text said that 'Kanon died in this room.' Referring to Jessica's room, and also something along the lines the only person able to claim the name Kanon is the real Kanon, even though we see him after he 'died'. The red text never mentions when he dies, so maybe he left the room/was abducted, then was later killed in that room after 'killing' the others in the kitchen?

[Marion]

Originally Posted by ChibiBear

Golden Butterflies = Symptom of 'Rokkenjima Syndrome'?
It could be like in Higurashi where

Spoiler for Higurashi:

Everyone on the island has a low level until the murders/stranges things start to occur.

In the 2nd Episode, the red text said that 'Kanon died in this room.' Referring to Jessica's room, and also something along the lines the only person able to claim the name Kanon is the real Kanon, even though we see him after he 'died'. The red text never mentions when he dies, so maybe he left the room/was abducted, then was later killed in that room after 'killing' the others in the kitchen?

Nothing denying this theory yet, but I doubt Ryukishi would reuse the same solution twice. That would make things too easy, wouldn't it?

Understand that Umineko is a mystery/horror genre, while Higurashi was more of a psychological/horror genre.

[ChibiBear]

Hmm... you're probably right Ah well!

[Raneh]

Originally Posted by ChibiBear

In the 2nd Episode, the red text said that 'Kanon died in this room.' Referring to Jessica's room, and also something along the lines the only person able to claim the name Kanon is the real Kanon, even though we see him after he 'died'. The red text never mentions when he dies, so maybe he left the room/was abducted, then was later killed in that room after 'killing' the others in the kitchen?

Beato said 'Kanon was killed in this room.' before the kitchen scene, it was when they were discussing Jessica's death. That means Kanon was already dead despite the time of death.
...As far as I know "killing" means "making a living thing dead", and that was in past tense..

[ChibiBear]

Oh... Opps Then it was a hallucination? That doesn't count as someone pretending to be him.

[Iromaru]

Originally Posted by Raneh

Beato said 'Kanon was killed in this room.' before the kitchen scene, it was when they were discussing Jessica's death. That means Kanon was already dead despite the time of death.
...As far as I know "killing" means "making a living thing dead", and that was in past tense..

Well it may also mean that his personality, the emotionless furniture, known as Kanon died in that room. At the end of his magical fight he said he has become a human and was about to say his real name. Could somebody clarify if that would make sense in the original japanese text? That's most likely a wrong guess but who knows.

Anyways I have a little stupid theory.

Spoiler for possible Higurashi spoilers:

I was thinking about Umineko in Higurashi's context, and everything seems to point that endless june 1983 was a game between Bernkastell and Lambdadelta. But if that's true Bernkastell didn't exist when that game began as she was created from Rika (if that's true anyways). That means Lambda started the game when her opponent wasn't yet born.

Now looking at what happened in Umineko so far it seems that may be the case here as well. We all accepted Battler as Beatrice's opponent in this game, but what if he's not her true opponent? What if her real opponent is a witch that isn't complete yet? We saw Bern talking to an empty chair afterall. Now if that's true who is this witch? Considering she must be on Rokkenjima and survive until the very end every time she's most likely Maria.

Taking this theory further, there must be someone impersonating the witch Beatrice on the island, and if there are really only 18 people on Rokkenjima she must be one of them. And that person must be the real Beatrice, the loli we saw in ep.12 (her much older version of course). That would mean Beatrice "killed" by Rosa wasn't the same person we saw as loli in ep.12, she was most likely 2nd Beatrice, first in the chain of Kinzo's fake Beatrices. But then who is the real Beatrice? It may be Kyrie but it's also possible that one of the Ushiromiya family members is already dead from the start (maybe even for months or years already) and either Eva or Natsuhi are actually the 1st Beatrice in disguise (possibly after a surgery). If that's true she have a body prepared to fake her death.

Now what would be her movite for the crimes? Maybe she wants revenge for something Kinzo did in the past?

[chounokoe]

Originally Posted by Iromaru

Well it may also mean that his personality, the emotionless furniture, known as Kanon died in that room. At the end of his magical fight he said he has become a human and was about to say his real name. Could somebody clarify if that would make sense in the original japanese text? That's most likely a wrong guess but who knows.

That's not even that farfetched and I'm intrigued to expand on this theory a bit myself if I may.
In the original the line was　「嘉音はこの部屋で殺された」　(Kanon was killed in this room), BUT assuming we play with meaning and words a bit, it is possible to think that 人物X (Person X,) who is named 嘉音 (Kanon) as a servant, decided to 'kill' his Kanon-Persona and decided to live on not as 嘉音 but as 人物X whose name is not yet revealed to us.

This would also explain why the servants told that they met 嘉音 and only later discovered it was not in fact him, but another person. This would also explain why we too experienced 嘉音 arriving at the door, yet it was not him, but 人物X.

I don't know if this makes sense or if it was discussed already, but after thinking about it again, it's not even that farfetched.

[Iromaru]

Originally Posted by chounokoe

This would also explain why the servants told that they met 嘉音 and only later discovered it was not in fact him, but another person. This would also explain why we too experienced 嘉音 arriving at the door, yet it was not him, but 人物X.

This theory is making more and more sense.

[Jan-Poo]

In other words you claim that the definition of "killed" and "died" might not be limited to the medical definition of a human body being rendered and becoming inert matter.

[jeroz]

"Boku no hontou no namae wa Be......atoricchi......" (as if that would happen)
but, I can see R07 uses his real name as a major plot twist.

Continue on with that theory.
If that's indeed what happened, what do we know about the facts?
Jessica was found dead in her room where Kanon was, he was later found suffering serious injuries (still debatable). Then he mysteriously (?) vanished along with the doctor and Kumasawa.
hmmm. Godha is becoming more and more suspicious in EP2
I still believe Genji was involved in the death or the body-disposal of Nanjo and Kumasawa.
It's possible that the remain of Kanon holds a big clue to the identity of the culprit which is why Genji had to dispose it off somewhere unseen.

[Iromaru]

Originally Posted by jeroz

Then he mysteriously (?) vanished along with the doctor and Kumasawa.

The bodies were still there when servants left, so this "Kanon" just killed them and ran away. He could have hid the bodies when servants left to talk with Rosa. The thing is if Kanon really is the killer he needed Nanjo's help in EP.1, so it's possible Nanjo faked his death in some way (he was an experienced doctor afterall).

If Kanon is indeed the killer in EP.2 he must have the master key after Jessica's death. I remember somebody mentioning that in VN Rosa checked both keys they found in Jessica's room and they both worked, but what if they were switched? I mean: the one with the teddy bear was in truth the master key and the one on Jassica's body was the key to her room. If that's the case killer could easily return to Jessica's room and take the master key after everybody left.

[desirebluesky]

Originally Posted by Iromaru

We saw Bern talking to an empty chair afterall.

at first i thought she was talking to Battler. now that i think of it, she was probably talking to 'you'. (the watcher). but to be honest, i'm not really sure. never wondered about this particular scene.

[ChibiBear]

I just noticed something about the chain of locked rooms in episode 14.

In the 2nd arc, the red text about the first twilight (chapel) didn't mention a hidden door/passageway right? So it's possible that there is one?

[Tjfarmer]

I'm forgetting all the red text, but unless its confirmed in red, the possibility exists.

IMO, if you wanna come up with a good theory for chain of closed rooms, take a good look at episode 4.

[ChibiBear]

As in the second twilight of the first arc?

[Tjfarmer]

Hmmm, episode 4 is the one with Kanon in the boiler room, right? Thats the scene I'm talking about.

[ChibiBear]

Oh, you mean the back door of the boiler room that goes to the courtyard?

[Tjfarmer]

Ya. There was no mention of this door ever again.... including the VN so.... who knows. Ryukishi could've just forgotten about it, but if it was never locked in the chain of closed rooms, it could all work out.