Umineko no Naku Koro ni - Episode 18 Discussion / Poll

[Echoman]

Butchered the Siestas trying to kill Beato scene, as well as the cigarette discovery. Beato's "self-sacrifice" was okay, golden land scene was a bit too quick for my liking. Ange was epic though. <3 Ange Made me mad that gg subbed the <See you again> as "Au revior" but that's the subbers' fault. Would have felt much more epic if they just put it in brackets or something though like Witch Hunt did for the VN. Though I guess anime-only viewers wouldn't have gotten the connection anyway (in the VN it's much more obvious, that adding random English phrases like that was a habit of Battler's, can't remember if he ever did it more than maybe once in the anime) Not that it's not already pretty much explicitly stated who she is or anything, but seeing that little mannerism of his transfer over was just really cool to me... Made me really excited for Chapter 4 when I saw it happen in the VN (yet I couldn't start the chapter for a bit cause I had been putting off a paper and felt it would be a bad idea to do so >_>) WELL it was motivation to finish my paper anyway ;3

Originally Posted by MarthX

I have no problem with Ange's appearance or voice.

Ange and Maria are two characters you'd have to crazy to think the VN designs are better.

I liked the VN's "creepy Maria" way better than the anime's version. Anime kawaii-Maria was done well though. Just it seems like they tried WAY too hard to make her look creepy in those scenes where she was supposed to. I'd have much preferred they kept it like it was in the VN, where she basically just seemed to have kind of a confident smile, and that was it. Honestly, I like just about all of the anime designs better, besides Ronove and Beato, and maybe Battler. The ones that really stood out to me as being way better in the anime were George (he just looked way too nerdy in the VN for my liking, though maybe he was supposed to) Kyrie, and Maria, when she's not in creepy mode.

Spoiler for screenshot:

Lawl! I didn't notice that.

[nchan]

Originally Posted by ChibiBear

Simple? Please tell me you're joking Otherwise agreed ^^

Sorry, bad word choice. English is not my first language. But what I mean by simple plot, is the idea "a group of people trapped on an island, people were murdered one by one, so the main character played detective to figure out who the murderer was." That's what I mean. Anyway, best anime I've seen in a long time.

[Uchiha Soul]

well well .. as i expected, this story revealed alot of details and i liked it bcoz it is different than the previous ones.

i can say that Battler is so stupid, in beginning of the series i thought he is smart but he is not maybe stubborn but not clever. First why did he believed in Virgilia if he wanna prove the unexistence of witch!! Second, why did he cover his ears?
SO STUPID .. trapped by any witch

enough with my feeling talks back to my mind thoughts:

ok, it is so painful to know that they trapped in these stories 12 years but its good to see Ange.
i know one thing that Eva is not the culprit, i dont know if Battler will realized that but its obvious that she is not. the question is, the conversation between Ange and Eva in the hospital and then her talks with Bernkastel, is this part of game also? did Meta Battler saw it or is just for us (the viewers)? i mean i dont believe that Eva ran away from the island, stayed in the hospital 12 years then give the family head to Ange .. it's not make sense, if Eva in the hospital is the real one then who is the one trapped in the island for 12 years .. i mean they trapped inside a game and Eva part of it, so she must be there otherwise it gonna ruin it.

[Workworkwork]

Originally Posted by Uchiha Soul

well well .. as i expected, this story revealed alot of details and i liked it bcoz it is different than the previous ones.

i can say that Battler is so stupid, in beginning of the series i thought he is smart but he is not maybe stubborn but not clever. First why did he believed in Virgilia if he wanna prove the unexistence of witch!! Second, why did he cover his ears?
SO STUPID .. trapped by any witch

enough with my feeling talks back to my mind thoughts:

ok, it is so painful to know that they trapped in these stories 12 years but its good to see Ange.
i know one thing that Eva is not the culprit, i dont know if Battler will realized that but its obvious that she is not. the question is, the conversation between Ange and Eva in the hospital and then her talks with Bernkastel, is this part of game also? did Meta Battler saw it or is just for us (the viewers)? i mean i dont believe that Eva ran away from the island, stayed in the hospital 12 years then give the family head to Ange .. it's not make sense, if Eva in the hospital is the real one then who is the one trapped in the island for 12 years .. i mean they trapped inside a game and Eva part of it, so she must be there otherwise it gonna ruin it.

Huh? Eva survived after killing Battler, and got out of Rokkenjima after the typhoon passed.

[~Ayane~]

I liked the VN's "creepy Maria" way better than the anime's version. Anime kawaii-Maria was done well though. Just it seems like they tried WAY too hard to make her look creepy in those scenes where she was supposed to. I'd have much preferred they kept it like it was in the VN, where she basically just seemed to have kind of a confident smile, and that was it.

lol, when i was playing visual novel, after watching Maria in anime, i thought she is much more creepy in novel, honestly, so i never understand people that say that Deen is exaggerating

ok, it is so painful to know that they trapped in these stories 12 years

huh? its not that they are trapped for 12 years already, its just Bern can enter Kakera in whatever point of its time she wants

i mean i dont believe that Eva ran away from the island, stayed in the hospital 12 years then give the family head to Ange .. it's not make sense, if Eva in the hospital is the real one then who is the one trapped in the island for 12 years .. i mean they trapped inside a game and Eva part of it, so she must be there otherwise it gonna ruin it.

she survived the third game you know

[luizf]

Originally Posted by Uchiha Soul

well well .. as i expected, this story revealed alot of details and i liked it bcoz it is different than the previous ones.

i can say that Battler is so stupid, in beginning of the series i thought he is smart but he is not maybe stubborn but not clever. First why did he believed in Virgilia if he wanna prove the unexistence of witch!! Second, why did he cover his ears?
SO STUPID .. trapped by any witch

enough with my feeling talks back to my mind thoughts:

ok, it is so painful to know that they trapped in these stories 12 years but its good to see Ange.
i know one thing that Eva is not the culprit, i dont know if Battler will realized that but its obvious that she is not. the question is, the conversation between Ange and Eva in the hospital and then her talks with Bernkastel, is this part of game also? did Meta Battler saw it or is just for us (the viewers)? i mean i dont believe that Eva ran away from the island, stayed in the hospital 12 years then give the family head to Ange .. it's not make sense, if Eva in the hospital is the real one then who is the one trapped in the island for 12 years .. i mean they trapped inside a game and Eva part of it, so she must be there otherwise it gonna ruin it.

Uh, Battler just want to prove the culprit is human.. His existence in the Meta-world wouldn't be possible without magic, so it's not like he doesn't acknowledge the witches' existence in another dimension.. Beato didn't deny the existence of witches when battler covered his ears; she was trolling him, after all..

If there is no magic involved, the only possible explanation would be that all that happened was his delusions or something like that, and that would be pretty lame, imo..

[-Sho-]

If i'm correct .
So ALL was a LIE . Beato is still Beato ! LOL the blush's part and all the emo's part !
Its hilarious when Battler is EMO and BABY CRY though . Beato trick him perfectly but her sister Ange entered the show !
So the real culprit was Eva ahah .
So in real , Battler anc Cie are dead in the island .
Just Ange is alive because she wasn't there and she want to find what happened there .
But Eva is crazy XD
She want to suicide but Bernesktel save her and give her witch's power ??

Ow , the little blond girl is Beato's master or what ?
Ahah Virgilia , don't trust her XD

[~Ayane~]

So the real culprit was Eva ahah .

no

Ow , the little blond girl is Beato's master or what ?

she gave her her powers

[Alair]

Wow... Ange was kicking serious butt there.

I gave the last episode a 10, if I could I'd have given this one a 9.5. The material's just as high quality but the actual pacing just feels much too fast - Jessica/Kanon and Golden Land scene prior to the troll reveal both could have both benefited from a bit more screen time. It may be the inherent sacrifices you have to make when proportioning everything into twenty-minute slices but the Golden Land in particular's the big pay off for Beatrice's whole scheme and it'd be nice if they'd been able to milk it a bit before the witches start getting creepy in their insistence to hurry up and sign, sign, sign.

[Uchiha Soul]

Originally Posted by ~Ayane~

huh? its not that they are trapped for 12 years already, its just Bern can enter Kakera in whatever point of its time she wants

Originally Posted by ~Ayane~

she survived the third game you know

i got your point about Eva survived the third game and lets say they didnt trapped for 12 y in real.
i analyzed it from two different perspectives:

my first perspective is Game 3 or 3rd story whatever we call it is the last one, the game end at 3rd .. there is no 4th story and my point is: to survived the game, the person must solve the epitaph and as we saw Eva did .. so she got everything that Beato promised and she survived and left the island. as u mentioned, Bern can go to the future, so she went to (12 years later) and brought Ange to help her brother. this conclude that Ange is part of 3rd game coz Bern took her from there and this is the prove that we are still in 3rd game. we still in a place that Eva survived so Ange must be within this game only, playing other stories to confirm the 3rd one.

my scond perspective is the stories gonna continue, there will be 4th, 5th, etc and my point is the conversation between Ange and her aunt Eva was part of 3rd game .. its not real and this incident (the conversation) must end by the ending of the 3rd game. ok, how Ange enter the game? lets say Bern took her from the future not the future of 3rd game but the real one that we still dont know but how did she get Ushiromiya ring? she got the family head bcoz all her family died but the ring.. how did she get it? the ring was with them in the island so this is mean that Ange must know things happend during the 12 years period and she must use it to help her bro to discover the truth.

[Jan-Poo]

Originally Posted by Uchiha Soul

i got your point about Eva survived the third game and lets say they didnt trapped for 12 y in real.
i analyzed it from two different perspectives:

my first perspective is Game 3 or 3rd story whatever we call it is the last one, the game end at 3rd .. there is no 4th story and my point is: to survived the game, the person must solve the epitaph and as we saw Eva did .. so she got everything that Beato promised and she survived and left the island. as u mentioned, Bern can go to the future, so she went to (12 years later) and brought Ange to help her brother. this conclude that Ange is part of 3rd game coz Bern took her from there and this is the prove that we are still in 3rd game. we still in a place that Eva survived so Ange must be within this game only, playing other stories to confirm the 3rd one.

Actually what Beatrice promised in ep2 is that "if you solve the riddle you should reach the golden land and no one will die anymore".
That's not exactly what happened in episode3. However Beatrice said in red I keep my promises, so I can only conclude that either Eva didn't solve the riddle in all of its parts, or even though she solved she didn't reach the real "golden land".

Originally Posted by Uchiha Soul

my scond perspective is the stories gonna continue, there will be 4th, 5th, etc and my point is the conversation between Ange and her aunt Eva was part of 3rd game .. its not real and this incident (the conversation) must end by the ending of the 3rd game. ok, how Ange enter the game? lets say Bern took her from the future not the future of 3rd game but the real one that we still dont know but how did she get Ushiromiya ring? she got the family head bcoz all her family died but the ring.. how did she get it? the ring was with them in the island so this is mean that Ange must know things happend during the 12 years period and she must use it to help her bro to discover the truth.

The metaworld isn't part of any game, the metaworld is beyond kakera and games. entities from different kakera can join inside the metaworld. MetaBattler for example definitely comes from one specific kakera however he can still see different kakera. Bernkastel is another example.

So it is possible that Ange come from the future of the kakera where Eva survives (possibly Ep3's kakera). but that doesn't prevent her from entering the metaworld where Battler is and see other games. There is no real or false kakera, all the kakera are true.


This assuming the kakera interpreation applies to umineko.

[Uchiha Soul]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

[COLOR="Black"]The metaworld isn't part of any game, the metaworld is beyond kakera and games. entities from different kakera can join inside the metaworld. MetaBattler for example definitely comes from one specific kakera however he can still see different kakera. Bernkastel is another example.

So it is possible that Ange come from the future of the kakera where Eva survives (possibly Ep3's kakera). but that doesn't prevent her from entering the metaworld where Battler is and see other games. There is no real or false kakera, all the kakera are true.


This assuming the kakera interpreation applies to umineko.

yeah i know meta world is not part of the game, but if Ange came from 3rd story her memory is from that game .. Battler gained memories from all the stories so he can deduce that the whole incidents is only a game but Ange doesnt has any memory of other games she'll plays to confirm what will happend in this island and how did Eva survive .. i mean if she really came from there.

[Jan-Poo]

Originally Posted by Uchiha Soul

yeah i know meta world is not part of the game, but if Ange came from 3rd story her memory is from that game .. Battler gained memories from all the stories so he can deduce that the whole incidents is only a game but Ange doesnt has any memory of other games she'll plays to confirm what will happend in this island and how did Eva survive .. i mean if she really came from there.

We have seen that Bernkastel contacted Ange and invited her to join the game. Ange could have been told by Bernkastel many things, including what happened in previous games.

[Ithekro]

Judging by the preview, you might get some answers next episode.


Might.

[Uchiha Soul]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

We have seen that Bernkastel contacted Ange and invited her to join the game. Ange could have been told by Bernkastel many things, including what happened in previous games.

yeah .. it could be

Originally Posted by Ithekro

Judging by the preview, you might get some answers next episode.


Might.

i hope

[Bern-san]

Originally Posted by -Sho-

If i'm correct .
So ALL was a LIE . Beato is still Beato ! LOL the blush's part and all the emo's part !
Its hilarious when Battler is EMO and BABY CRY though . Beato trick him perfectly but her sister Ange entered the show !
So the real culprit was Eva ahah .
So in real , Battler anc Cie are dead in the island .
Just Ange is alive because she wasn't there and she want to find what happened there .
But Eva is crazy XD
She want to suicide but Bernesktel save her and give her witch's power ??

Ow , the little blond girl is Beato's master or what ?
Ahah Virgilia , don't trust her XD

in the anime it wasn't said but Eva gives Ange all the gold,the title of the Ushiromiya head AND the title of Golden Witch. Bernkastel aknowledged her as witch (like Lamdbadelta did with Eva-Beatrice)

if you saw the scene carefully, you notice that lambdadelta was the one who gave powers to Beato so Bernkastel could be trapped in the game endlessly

[Ithekro]

Well Ange has the one-wing symbol of the family (though she's able to wear it because she is of the blood), and she is wearing Kinzo's ring (or is it Beatrice's ring?) The title of head supposedly gains control of the gold...if any remains in 1998. Also Since Eva was supposedly Eva Beatrice, therefore the title of "Beatrice" would also be passed on...in this case, to Ange. Again assuming the gold in the source of the title "Golden Witch". However...what of the title "Endless Witch"?

[Crontica]

Originally Posted by Bern-san

in the anime it wasn't said but Eva gives Ange all the gold,the title of the Ushiromiya head AND the title of Golden Witch. Bernkastel aknowledged her as witch (like Lamdbadelta did with Eva-Beatrice)

if you saw the scene carefully, you notice that lambdadelta was the one who gave powers to Beato so Bernkastel could be trapped in the game endlessly

Wow thats a big one to miss since it was over 2 secs short When Berntaskel Called her Angetrice i thought she was referring to what was yet to come. You Ya'll know what this means? NEW OP SEQUENCE!!!

[~Ayane~]

if we are lucky and they will do new portarait for her

[Ithekro]

There'd have to be, since I don't think the Fourth Game had a portrait. Well at least a proper portrait.