|
View Poll Results: Steins;Gate - Episode 19 Rating | |||
Perfect 10 | 40 | 47.06% | |
9 out of 10 : Excellent | 26 | 30.59% | |
8 out of 10 : Very Good | 11 | 12.94% | |
7 out of 10 : Good | 8 | 9.41% | |
6 out of 10 : Average | 0 | 0% | |
5 out of 10 : Below Average | 0 | 0% | |
4 out of 10 : Poor | 0 | 0% | |
3 out of 10 : Bad | 0 | 0% | |
2 out of 10 : Very Bad | 0 | 0% | |
1 out of 10 : Painful | 0 | 0% | |
Voters: 85. You may not vote on this poll |
|
Thread Tools |
2011-08-11, 07:25 | Link #121 | ||
I'll end it before April.
Join Date: Jul 2008
|
Quote:
Quote:
ROFL, Mayuri being FB mean that she plan to kill herself
__________________
|
||
2011-08-11, 07:26 | Link #122 |
Me, An Intellectual
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: UK
Age: 33
|
Care to give an example? The reason she was so catatonic to outside stimuli was because she was so fixated on her phone. And the reason she was so fixated on her phone was because her life literally depended on it. So long as she was conscious she wasn't going to give up that phone, nor was she going to let it out of her hand (she didn't before, even when she was sane).
__________________
|
2011-08-11, 07:51 | Link #125 | |
Awakened One
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Northern Italy
|
Quote:
His main objective was getting hold of Moeka's phone, not hurting her. Okabe's actions are, if not commendable, completely justifiable.
__________________
|
|
2011-08-11, 08:54 | Link #126 | |
Test Drive
Author
|
Quote:
__________________
|
|
2011-08-11, 09:13 | Link #127 | |
Junior Member
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Jupiter
|
Quote:
|
|
2011-08-11, 10:23 | Link #128 | |||||
Senior Member
Author
|
Quote:
But I don't see how anybody can deny that at least some of that ugliness was in fact necessary, given the circumstances. Simply put, Okabe had to get that cell-phone. That was necessary in order to carry out his plan to save Mayuri. Now, I don't doubt he took a degree of satisfaction in punching the face that belongs to Mayuri's killer. Even so, though, he really did need that phone. It quickly became clear that the use of physical force would be necessary in order to get the phone. Quote:
Quote:
Well, if so, Okabe may simply lack knowledge of, or training in, such methods. The punch method may have been the best one he had to work with. One thing I want to say here is that I don't see why Moeka's gender should matter given the circumstances. Now, I'm strongly against violence against women. So much so that I ended up disagreeing with Kyon's attempt to punch Haruhi in the Sigh arc of Haruhi 2009. But even so, there are exceptions at the extreme margins of most things. When Okabe sees Moeka, he sees the person who killed his dearest friend. At that point, I'm not sure why gender should even matter. I mean, if somebody killed your dearest friend or loved one in cold blood, does that killer's gender really matter in how you'll feel about that killer? Will you think, 'Dang, my wife's killer is a woman. Guess that means I have to totally put aside any negative feelings I have for my wife's killer, and not desire revenge on her whatsoever.' Now, my one issue with Okabe here is that this isn't the same Moeka that killed Mayuri. But if she was the same Moeka, why should her gender matter? Again, she's the person who killed his best friend! Quote:
With Daru and Kurisu, we get to see them actually build and invent things. So they kind of get to prove their intellectual/scientific worth that way. We don't get as much of that with Okabe, and that is a bit of a shame yeah. Quote:
I don't think that Okabe is stupid, though, so much as he occasionally takes leave of his common sense. Perhaps it's a side-effect of playing the "mad scientist" persona so much. Aside from a couple scenes, though, it doesn't bother me much. Two facepalm-worthy scenes over 19 episodes isn't too bad for a male lead, in my view. I've certainly seen a whole hell of a lot worse. On the whole, I can understand your issues with Okabe, even if I diagree with them somewhat. However, your criticisms of Steins;Gate as a whole surprises me a bit. This anime has a superb sci-fi plot, in my view. Possibly the best handling of time travel, as a concept, that I've ever seen in anime. Much more interesting than the basic time-loops, or "ensuring the past unfolds as recorded", that I've seen elsewhere. The butterfly effect is much more dramatically and intriguingly applied here than in most other anime shows I've seen that incorporate time travel into their narratives.
__________________
|
|||||
2011-08-11, 10:36 | Link #129 | |
Me, An Intellectual
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: UK
Age: 33
|
Quote:
__________________
|
|
2011-08-11, 10:39 | Link #130 | |
Senior Member
Author
|
Quote:
But there have been a few posts on this thread that have suggested that Okabe punching Moeka was unacceptable, basically because of her gender, and that was what I was responding to there.
__________________
|
|
2011-08-11, 11:21 | Link #131 | |||||
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Age: 35
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
|
|||||
2011-08-11, 11:25 | Link #132 | |
Me, An Intellectual
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: UK
Age: 33
|
Quote:
Frankly, knocking her out and then taking her phone would've been far worse. Bear in mind, there's no safe way to knock someone unconcious.
__________________
Last edited by Haak; 2011-08-11 at 11:38. |
|
2011-08-11, 11:35 | Link #133 | |||
阿賀野型3番艦、矢矧 Lv180
Graphic Designer
Moderator Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Belgium, Brussels
Age: 37
|
Quote:
Indifference doesn't mean you are a BIG S or anything you know. It doesn't make sense at all with Okabe characterization -and- behaviour: not only he didn't show any pleasure with the struggle and flat out revelations thrown at Moeka, he even apologized. How on earth can you consider a character like this as "wanting her to feel the pain and frustration"? Quote:
Pressure points is unlikely to be known by someone like Okabe, especially on someone he does not know that much. Asphyxiation and strangulation are much worse than mere punch: asphyxia is one of the most life threatening inducing sensation, which is hardly anything "nicer" than a punch, especially considering how the respiratory system works with human brain. Heck, doing so might potentially lead to Moeka's death, or grave aftermath, supposing her brain suffered too much from asphyxia. A knock on the head is basically the same as a punch, I fail to see how it is any "less vicious" under your terms. Wait, no it is worse, since it would imply he use violence despite she is not dangerous in such state: that kind of move would be questionable in fact. As for sedative, bondage, etc: Okabe doesn't know if her comrades are around or not. He doesn't know if he is about to get owned by someone else like what happened before when he threatened Moeka with her own gun. What he needed is to get her phone ASAP. And he initially tried without resorting to violence: is that really far fetched to expect to be able to snatch it quickly and run off? Even if Moeka's reaction might turn into violence, what he did was not even aimed for that result, and it really doesn't matter considering the objective. Surely, he could potentially walk off after spotting Moeka being in catatonic state, and then what? It was actually the best timing for him to jump on her, since she might be not under the same state for all he know, nor she could have other people around the next time he shows up. Quote:
The last thing people would need now is a full lecture of Kurisu about time travel in general: it isn't like they can drag more on the sci fi side when they apposed the premises throroughly.
__________________
|
|||
2011-08-11, 11:46 | Link #134 |
RUN, YOU FOOLS!
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Formerly Iwakawa base and Chaldea. Now Teyvat, the Astral Express & the Outpost
Age: 44
|
Let's be honest here, many time travel stories were more about the characters than time travel theories themselves. They are mostly frameworks for the stories where the question is "What if?". What if McFly senior was not a wimp? What if the father of the friend of Evan Treborn was told to not abuse his daughter?
|
2011-08-11, 12:14 | Link #136 |
Last Engage
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Florida
|
I've been seriously considering this issue (that I started in the first place, I'll fully admit to that), and I think I've figured out why it bothers me so much and will still bother me. I'm not sure how much of it is about hitting a woman versus hitting a person in general or even if it was justified and how much of it has to do with attitudes I've seen around this board. It's not just one thing that caused me to respond like that.
I'm opposed to violence in general, unless it's being played in a slapstick way. There's the whole issue of revenge and "deserving" it, which is a slippery slope, though he realized the true target quick enough that he stopped himself, although that doesn't really make the initial strike okay either. Yes, Moeka was going crazy, but there might have been alternative methods. Yes, she did do something bad, but that's another issue that has as much to do with time travel and world lines as anything else. I think I've narrowed it down to two possible reasons that could explain where I ended up. The first, again, was done in anticipation of how this board responds to issues like this normally. People were saying in the Hanasauk Iroha 19 thread that over an issue that involves a lot less killing than this one, they'd have slapped someone. Violence as a response to even minor issues, never mind major ones like this, leaves me to wonder why, and causes me to detest it a little, just out of a sense of human decency. The other issue has as much to do with hitting someone who was his equal. She may not have been with the lab in every time line, but if he's willing to help her, and he knows she was, she's still a friend. Some would say a friend is a person who you can hurt, but there's also the issue of when you see someone as your equal, male or female, and treat them how you would like to be treated, and that typically doesn't involve doing it so violently, though she's not exactly blameless, but he isn't and... It's a really thorny issue. I don't know if my view can be construed as idealist, feminist, whatever it is. I'm willing to support my view, and I don't want to come across as an idiot, but that I put forth an ideal view at all seems to be getting some backlash and... I have no idea where I stand in all this. But I've definitely been thinking about it. |
2011-08-11, 13:15 | Link #137 | |||||
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Age: 35
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
What Okabe did, though, was raw and messy. That is what tells me it was more driven by emotion than anything else. What's more, it's only ugly emotion, that of revenge and frustration and wanting to take it out on something else. That's my issue here: that Okabe wanted to take it out on Moeka, because in his eyes she didn't deserve anything more. It's not that it's bad that Okabe made Moeka suffer to any degree, it's that he did it for no real useful/necessary point. I won't say that this world is easy enough that you can always get away without anybody getting hurt. Still though, when it has to happen, then you should make sure to do it with as much empathy as you can. That's the only way you can ever make sure that you're actually making the world a better place. Frankly, to any degree that Okabe's punch was not driven by gratuity and hate, stupidity can be the only other 'cause. For just the goal of getting the cell-phone, there were any number of ways it could've been better done. Quote:
|
|||||
2011-08-11, 13:32 | Link #138 | ||||
阿賀野型3番艦、矢矧 Lv180
Graphic Designer
Moderator Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Belgium, Brussels
Age: 37
|
Quote:
Considering how many times Okabe went through that looping hell, you would rather expect him to lynch her if it was truly an breakdown only driven by hatred. Quote:
Do you realize how horrible it is to be strangled? You even mention a blow on the head so she can be unconscious, which is much stronger than a mere punch in the face. Quote:
That single punch was necessary, otherwise she would cling to him ad nauseam. I ask that again: what could he have done with Moeka clinging on him? Tickling her? Smooth talking? Using that sole flashback to drive Okabe's full intent is quite an alienation in my books. Quote:
Heck, without any obligation, he expressed empathy after learning Moeka's circumstances, despite he could just scramble and let her mopping about FB until she dies. There is no way not to hurt people in such situation. Branding "evil' or whatnot because of a single motivation which isn't even the full reason for the act (a mere punch at that) is, imho, nonsense.
__________________
|
||||
2011-08-11, 13:36 | Link #139 | |
On a mission
Author
|
Quote:
So it's only natural that some of his actions would be rushed without thinking over twice and for him to have more than a few screws loose. Also, consider that time is limited. If he messes up, he needs to reset and dmail again; he doesn't have that much time to plan. Unless he wants to jump again and god knows what has changed.
__________________
|
|
2011-08-11, 13:59 | Link #140 | |||||
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Age: 35
|
Quote:
Also, frankly, Moeka looked so far gone that it's not like lynching her would've hurt her more than taking away the phone. Okabe's assault is pretty much the most aggressive thing he could've done amongst the things he actually had the balls to. Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Btw, I never said Okabe was 'evil'. Just impulsive, emotionally driven, and possibly a little stupid (but only if you deny the first two :P). edit: Quote:
|
|||||
|
|