2013-02-08, 02:02 | Link #1321 | |
阿賀野型3番艦、矢矧 Lv180
Graphic Designer
Moderator Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Belgium, Brussels
Age: 37
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Because really, if simplified art style could really do the trick, a hefty amount of series could have much better than they have now (who said SSY? *ahem*). Of course, I get what you meant with the "animating sticks" analogy, but that's quite extreme, because frankly, I will simplify the problem here, but if you compare K-On and Haruhi for instance, save the characteristic facial features being different, the differences are arguably not that big (and I of course compare with the original 2006 series, not the 2009 one). Aesthetism with colors, cinematography etc is a different field as far as I can see. To be really frank, seeing K on and Nichijou very simple art style doesn't make me think it is "easier" to animate, especially when you have to consider the amount of animation sequences and tibits (fingers fidgetting etc) thrown in there. What make a series animation easier, imho, would be how the storyboard is done (as in, how the guys decided to show specific scene and how key frame would look like to begin with), and what kind of animation prowess/tricks they tend to use or avoid using. However, elaborated design will lead to one problem: design consistencies/bloopers over time.
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Last edited by Klashikari; 2013-02-08 at 02:13. |
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2013-02-08, 02:14 | Link #1322 | ||
Bittersweet Distractor
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 32
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You're not wrong about the storyboard, but the reason I brought up simplistic character designs is because drawing more detailed visuals requires more work to animate (and as you said, quality control becomes more difficult). It isn't easy to churn out really detailed visuals over and over again for animation so it is no small wonder that a lot of studios have been making char designs more plain and simple IMO. I love Hyouka's visuals, but it certainly reflects this too. It's why I marvel at something like Redline. That's a once in a blue moon experience.
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2013-02-08, 06:59 | Link #1323 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2011
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Good cartoony movement is certainly hard to get right. A run of the mill 4koma adaptation does not feature good cartoony movement, it features bad shit.
Gurren Lagann, for example, features insanely awesome cartoony movement, and it's no worse than any Ghibli film with literal acting. K-On! does look very cartoony at times, but more often than not it's timed perfectly and the character designs work wonders with that type of expression. This is very silly, but the movement itself is nuanced and has a very soft feel to it, which in turn makes cuts like these warm and fuzzy, which is exactly the objective of the show. Have a look at the hand on the second gif and how she plays with the orange; there are a lot of little details like this throughout every episode. Mind you those are not the best examples, I just googled some random parts. And a lot of the time you do have some solid "traditional" acting too This may not be Inoue or Iso, but the range of expressions she makes, and the pompous way in which she does it tie in perfectly into the context of the scene (for anyone wondering, it's in S1E01). This is good character acting, of a kind that is rarely seen on TV. As a corollary, character acting is not the be-all-end-all test of slice of life animation. Everything in K-On!, whether it is cartoony or more realistic, is very polished, and the sketchy movement and lineart are done on purpose, because that way the animation style goes hand in hand with the tone of the show. It's a distinct approach to animation, and for me it felt like the first time people over at Kyoani sat down and thought about what their movements and way of expression were conveying in and of themselves. The amount of effort that went into the show is ludicrous, and dismissing it as "cheap cartoony stuff" is kind of insulting. Hyouka's approach is different, and really really good too; but even there the Horiguchi influence is really noticeable, and the show's animation wouldn't be nearly as remarkable if it followed in the vein of Haruhi 2006/KEY's half-assed style. |
2013-02-08, 09:01 | Link #1324 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2009
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Again, animation quality does not have to do with character design, past the fact that simpler characters can be better animated for less time/money. If y'all wanna see some actually badly animated 4 koma anime, watch Kill Me Baby (other than the OP and ED). What KyoAni did with K-ON is pretty spectacular, at least as far as animation goes. imho they animated a little too much detail (like Yui's fingers on the orange ball, the way they hyperextend and stretch freaks me out lol). |
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2013-02-08, 16:48 | Link #1325 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
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To me the K-ON faces designs are a part of the anti-nose conspiracy, and their hands look all sorts of wrong. However, I still recognize just how good a job they did at creating vivid movement and expressions. It's an extremely well animated show that has few equals in television anime, so it's a shame to see this aspect get criticized when it should be praised instead.
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2013-02-11, 00:40 | Link #1326 | ||
2D > 3D
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: France
Age: 35
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Just watch the first seconds of the first episode : it's a wonderful piece of animation. You believe the characters are holding hands but they are connected with their sticks : they perfectly managed to animate the physics of a human chain. Plus if you pay attention to each character you see they have their specific motion, it's obvious with the different jumps. Another example is Midori who can be described as stronger than Tamako & Kanna (and that's why she's the center of the chain) according to her movements & physics. KyoAni sure knows how to put a soul in their animation which helps to shape the characters. Quote:
Elaborated design means a lot of lines, more complex shapes (nose, lips...) & clothes. Design consistencies are an effect of the complexity of an elaborated design. Animators haven't much time so elaborated designs are more difficult to draw. Sometimes they lack of skills so they can't draw properly and animation directors may have not time to correct everything. There're also inbetweeners who are beginners so they may ruin the animation because the design was too elaborated. However KyoAni is a different case since they focus on one series, have better working conditions and do everything in-house.
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2013-02-11, 03:05 | Link #1327 | |
Japanese Culture Fan
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Planet Earth
Age: 33
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I'm not impressed by Tamako Market either. I feel that the characters and premise have some potential for greatness, but something about the show throws me off. I find it hard to really like the characters, and the execution of the slice-of-life aspects feels esoteric and bizarre rather than relaxing or invigorating. Maybe it's Yamada Naoko's directing. She did a good job in adapting the K-On manga, but Tamako Market is a different beast from K-On despite sharing the same character designer. Maybe Satou Junichi would have been a better choice to direct Tamako Market. |
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2013-02-11, 10:54 | Link #1329 | ||
2D > 3D
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: France
Age: 35
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though I agree with you, animation only doesn't make a good TV series. I kind can understand why people think Tamako Market is dull but it works for me. I enjoyed how they introduced characters with character centric episodes specially the third episode and its neat storyboard. I don't think Yamada's at fault but it may be the story and the 1-cour format which make you feel like that.
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2013-02-13, 14:39 | Link #1334 | |
Otaku Apprentice
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And there we have it.
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2013-02-13, 14:45 | Link #1335 | ||
On a mission
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2013-02-13, 15:25 | Link #1336 |
Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
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Until the sequel is announced I kinda hope everything Kadokawa produces fails. Seriously, fuck them!
Also, how is Answerman supposed to know anything about that? It is not like ANN has an insider connection at Kadokawa, they certainly couldn't share anything even if they had. At this point I would just ask ultimatemegax whatever. Consequently, the answer was bullshit indeed. |
2013-02-13, 15:26 | Link #1337 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: ¯\(º_o)/¯
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Link to original source article: http://www.animenewsnetwork.com.au/answerman/2013-02-08
Questions in normal type, answers by the writer in bold. ---------------------------- It's just another dude speculating much like the rest of us. I don't see how he has anymore inside info than any of us here, or at least it wasn't particularly mentioned in there anyway. edit: lol ninja'd by scineram.
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2013-02-13, 16:34 | Link #1338 |
Senior Member
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The ANN article is reasonably well-written (in the sense of word choice, grammar, sentence structure, tone, etc...) but it suffers from the same thing that a lot of ANN articles do - Too western-oriented in its focus/thinking, and a bit shallow if you yourself are a hardcore and/or knowledgeable anime fan.
The implicit Star Wars/Haruhi comparison is a poor one because Star Wars is a completed narrative. I don't have a desire for more Star Wars for the same reason that I don't have any desire for more Shakugan no Shana - It's done. Nice, neat, and tidy, with a satisfying conclusion. I share the writer's dread at more Star Wars. It could very easily go off the rails and detract from the original (mind you, perhaps that isn't so important given what the Prequels themselves did ). But the Haruhi anime does not have a satisfying conclusion, as of yet. Disappearance clearly points to more narrative yet to come, so it obviously doesn't work well as a conclusion. And the real reason why KyoAni isn't making more Haruhi is complex, but basically boils down to this... 1) KyoAni can make a hit anime out of almost anything. It's not like the alternative to more Haruhi is a massive sales risk. 2) Kadokawa doesn't want more Haruhi made. They'd rather promote some of their more obscure properties. I don't particularly like this, but I have to admit it makes some sense. 3) KyoAni is very production-constrained. They only make 2 or 3 shows a year. This is in sharp contrast to, say, JC Staff or A-1 Pictures. There probably would be more Haruhi if either of them had the rights to the property. Honestly, it's a bit depressing that an ANN article is significantly less informative than what I get from basic google searches and discussion here on Anime Suki. So aside from being competently written in a "Yes, he can write Ok" sort of way, that article is pretty disappointing. Going back to Haruhi, I'm inclined to think that 2013 is make or break for the Haruhi anime. If I don't hear about more Haruhi being made into anime by the end of this year (or before), then I'm going to give up on it. It's generally not healthy to cling to increasingly dubious hopes.
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2013-02-13, 17:22 | Link #1339 | |
Banned
Join Date: Dec 2012
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Anyway not sure why Horizon is being used as the secondary example considering the show has had two seasons in like the past year and the most recent one wrapped up quite recently. There's a huge difference between 4 years and 4 months after all. @triple_R: actually in the case of Tamako Market its starting to look a little like the alternative might be just that, |
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