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View Poll Results: "Fansubbed" Forum: Should we only discuss episodes once the English fansub is out? | |||
Yes, only English-fansubbed episodes should be discussed | 12 | 21.43% | |
No, I like the discussions of unsubbed/raw episodes too | 11 | 19.64% | |
Don't care either way, so long as spoiler tags are used | 33 | 58.93% | |
Voters: 56. You may not vote on this poll |
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2007-01-04, 20:02 | Link #41 |
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People who contribute and are generally well known and can watch raws?
I mean, someone like you could fit that profile, and there's quite a few others. That's up for the staff anyway, they'd know better who they can or want to work with, but this is the suggestions forum after all.
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2007-01-05, 03:38 | Link #43 | ||
Sawa-Chan <3 <3 <3
Join Date: Dec 2004
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For my personal opinion, I wouldnt mind if there are Raw discussions in spoiler tags ( and fully designated as Raw, Manga, .....). But if people are going to follow the raws, i would hope them not to join in discussions of some of the key events of the series that hasnt been subbed untill fansubs reach that point. I will make an example to show what i mean. Lets say the Romance anime just ends at episode 26 and the subs are at episode 20. There is Mr.X and three candidate girls X, Z, W. In episode 20 there might be a discussion about " who do you think will end up with Mr.X and why do you think so", People discuss it and the person who has seen the raw and knows who will, sais Z and because .... . After fansub gets to episode 21 and 22 , people will see that story is happening in the exact way as the Raw-watcher said and the they know they have just been spoiled. So I hope Raw-watchers wouldnt join in the key events of the series if the fan-sub is far behind the raw, because even if they arent doing it purposely , their post will still be influenced by what they watched in raw. I have been spoiled that way many times by the way. Quote:
And FYI they do get banned already for not using spoiler tags . But even if they get banned some people will still end up being spoiled . The way i see it there is no real way to stop all the spoiler posts , but to just reduce them. Also our forum has some of the best mods ever and they respond extremely fast to the spoiler posts and remove it. If it wasnt because of our great mods i ( probably many other people feel the samw way) wouldnt even be here, Because there would be a great chance for me to get spoiled preaty fast.
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2007-01-05, 04:42 | Link #44 |
Administrator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 41
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If I may, I'd like to try to steer the discussion away from the "two threads" idea. Again, you're all getting so wrapped up in try to solve the "problem", that you're forgetting to keep the main thing the main thing. The primary audience of AnimeSuki forums is fansub viewers. If raw watchers wanted to discuss things seperately from fansub viewers, they could already go discuss elsewhere. So saying "let's give them their own forum!" is really just segregating in a way that's counter to the core purpose/target audience of AnimeSuki. Why should AnimeSuki cater especially to raw viewers, when it's a forum tied to an English fansub torrent listing? AnimeSuki can't be all things to all people.
Really, what I think you all mean to say is actually just "Discussion in the Fansub forums should be limited to English-fansubbed episodes"; that wouldn't exclude or segregate anyone, but just sets an appropriate timeframe for discussion. I know the thought was well-intended ("it's not that we want the raw viewers to feel left out..." and/or "we don't want them to leave the forum completely..."), but, respectfully, it's just not entirely thought through. Telling them to "go play in their own sandbox and leave us alone" is actually much worse, even if (especially if?) you provide the sandbox. Look at history for examples. It's better to have one sandbox with clearly-defined rules; that way, people can choose if they want to play or not. This is why I've been saying: don't get so caught up on changing the forums to solve the problem. What we can do, though, is try to change our individual behaviour and expectations. |
2007-01-05, 05:27 | Link #45 |
Sawa-Chan <3 <3 <3
Join Date: Dec 2004
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To sum up all i have said in this whole thread
In my personal opinion we should just continue as we are. People who watch raw should be allowed to discuss the raw but just make sure they put it in spoiler tag. And then people who open the Spoiler tag that is designated as spoiler=raw, and then complain about getting spoiled , then well they shouldnt have opend it when the knew it was from the raw and spoiler . I only sympathize with the people who have been spoiled because there was no spoiler tags when there need to be. And those people who dont follow it should get banned and do get ban by the mod. So i think we are fine the way we are in the forums. and i stay firm with my option 3 that i chose. This is my last post in this thread, Because we are just going in a circle and repeating our posts .
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2007-01-05, 09:23 | Link #46 | |||
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And, as for changing our individual behaviour and expectations...you know that not everyone is going to listen. Not the people who didn't read this thread, and not everyone that read it, even.
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2007-01-05, 14:52 | Link #47 | |
Banned
Join Date: Dec 2006
Age: 38
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But if you want to hear a really simple solution to this issue, I explain one to you: AnimeSuki knows three forums where new, ongoing anime are discussed: Fansubbed, Unaired, Current Series. Current Series only includes the most popular anime and is a solution most of us would like to see, but alas we don't have that many moderators for that. Fansubbed is where our problem lies. Creating threads for each episode in this forum would spell chaos. Scratch that idea. However, you're overlooking one forum that goes relatively unused and also has active moderators: Unaired. The forum for unaired anime already has posters who contribute information of ongoing (raw) episodes that haven't been fansubbed yet. I'm a contributor myself. While popular anime before their airing (like Kanon) get a lot of responses in their respected topics, most anime series' threads reach only a handful of pages (around 1-3 pages max.) before their series get fansubbed and moved to Fansubbed. Series that never get fansubbed still have a healthy discussion going on in the Unaired forum (it was named General Anime a month ago). What I'm suggesting is to keep raw discussion in the Unaired forum, and keep those freshly created topics for discussing the shows before they air in that forum, without moving them once they get fansubs, and fansub watchers can just create a fresh thread in the Fansubbed forum once that happens. What does this solve:
The bad? The discussion gets divided. Oh, wait, does it really get divided? I thought raw watchers are already having their own discussion in the Fansubbed forum and are thus willingly drifting away from discussing anime with fansub watchers because their schedules lie in a different time frame? The question we're all running away from here, in an attempt not to offend those raw watchers who would mind if the discussion got split in half, is: Why do raw watchers want people who can't discuss unsubbed anime with them around them? Answers I could come up with:
I think using Unaired (or possibly even renaming it to Unfansubbed) for discussion of raw, unfansubbed anime would be a win-win situation for both fansub watchers and moderators. The only loser here will be the malevolent spoilsport and the selfcentric anime blogger. I'm in no way a supporter of encouraging egotripping, which is the case with the current situation. EDIT: For the honest raw watchers out there who would want to participate in a discussion with a bigger crowd (if this idea would be effective) the solution is very easy: Engage in the Fansubbed anime discussion once the fansubs are out. Last edited by cyth; 2007-01-05 at 15:01. Reason: addition |
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2007-01-05, 19:21 | Link #48 | |
日本語を食べません!
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: San Francisco
Age: 41
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As a guy who used to be way more active in the Naruto forum, it was difficult to talk about what was happening in the anime. The series would be animating events in chapters 180-181 when we'd be reading chapter 275, for example. So, by the time the anime viewers had gotten to that point, the manga readers felt they had already discussed the events, and really, how can you have a discussion knowing what the outcome of the conflict is going to be and ensure you don't inadvertenly leak knowledge to be gained in later episodes? |
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2007-01-06, 01:45 | Link #49 | |
Administrator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 41
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So, if we really want to solve this problem in a way that'll make everyone happy, the next logical step would be to better understand the motivations of the raw viewers in posting here. The concerns of the fansub viewers have been made quite clear in this thread, which was what was being sought based on the way I phrased the original question. Thanks to everyone for all their input so far. |
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2007-01-06, 03:57 | Link #50 | |
Administrator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 41
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2007-01-07, 20:01 | Link #51 |
Monarch Programmer
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Liverpool
Age: 42
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Like right now I would love to participate in the Kenichi thread as I have just re-watched episode 6. But alas, the guys in there are already having fun with episode 12. I know it is my own fault for not being able to speak Japanese or Chinese but I can't be the only one who wants to talk about the recent subs?
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2007-02-04, 16:48 | Link #52 | |
Sexy Tornado
Artist
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: The European Bunion
Age: 45
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Coming back to this thread again because I've pretty much just had the same thing as Shay. Manabi Straight thread. Quite happily discussing ep2 subs, but now people are discussing ep5 in spoilers (and will likely be on 6 or even 7 by the time ep3 sub is out.) I simply don't feel like posting to that thread any more now because anything I say is basically redundant. That's how it feels anyway.
That's the first thread I've posted to in the 'fansubs' forum in quite some time, simply because I loved the first two eps so much I wanted to talk and evangelize a bit. Which has lasted all of about 5 days. Now I'm back to completely ignoring that forum again. Quote:
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2007-02-04, 18:21 | Link #53 |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 66
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Well.. *I* plan to discuss the most recent subs (like ep 2 for Manabi Straight).
I don't mind the publication with spoil tags of screen caps (like from Random Curiosity) and such, but we do have a number of raw watchers who repeatedly forget what constitutes spoilerific information, the Manabi thread containing some recent examples. Banning them would remove some of our more informative and interesting posters and I'd rather that not happen. I guess I can just report them all as raw spoilage and let the mods sort it out, but then I grieve for the mods Frankly, I'd prefer Unaired be expanded to cover "raw" discussion (but thats a solution I guess).
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2007-02-04, 19:21 | Link #54 | |
Administrator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 41
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One of the big draws of a forum of this size is its large readership. Even though some people would rather ignore the raw discussion, the fact that the thread keeps moving (that it's being continually "bumped") is what keeps people posting (even if they're ignoring some of the content). If the thread isn't popular enough to warrant its own forum and the fansubs fall behind, then splitting the discussion as was proposed could lead to a death spiral of the fansub forum thread (the less people post, the less people want to post, the thread isn't bumped, etc.). Even once the fansub is released, it's old news to a portion of the population, and of what benefit would it be for those who've already watched the raws or participated in the raw discussion to come back and discuss old episodes? At the very least, it'd be pretty hard to avoid allusions to future episodes, which would be the point of splitting raw discussion aside (so the discussion isn't biased by spoilers). The appropriate marking of spoilers aside (as I think everyone agrees on that point, even if some aren't always faithful in practicing it), I think what is ultimately being requested here is impossible to support in a unified way: two completely seperate, isolated universes of discussion for those who watch/discuss raws and those who only watch fansubs. And if you tried to legislate that into existance, I imagine that you'd end up with the worst of both, not to mention a potentially serious case of "haves" vs. "have-nots". That's just my theory, though. But that theory is why I was more interesting in opinion to see how individual behaviour/etiquette (my own) might be changed, than in trying to come up with a way of "fixing the forums". I think the "problem" is actually a symptom of a larger trend (that a growing English-speaking audience is watching and discussing raws, rather than waiting for the fansubs), so I doubt the problem can really be fixed. It's a by-product. Last edited by relentlessflame; 2007-02-04 at 19:34. |
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2007-02-04, 22:28 | Link #55 |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 66
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I'll probably tend to always wait for the subs as long as they become available in a reasonable time and mostly resort to raws if there's a long delay. The other situation would be when no one is subbing it (*cough* Hidamari Sketch). My etiquette is just that I'll completely tag any comments about a raw episode unless its in its own thread.
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