Boku wa Tomodachi ga Sukunai - Light Novel Discussion

[mironicus]

Originally Posted by Fwarlord

To be fair, it's actually easier for harem to work in fantasy setting than in a real lief setting. And I think the key for it to work is the protagonist truly treating all members in his harem equally.

The Haganai-Harem is like this:
Kodaka's own wish: Please have fun, please play together, but don't come any closer to me!
A place where they all can be happy with the silent agreement that no one should make a move on him.

Sena confessed and he ran away and didn't came back on his own. Rika had to blackmail him to come back. So is there any desire in him to bond with other people? No! Absolutely not.

Rika had to fight with him and to insist to become his friend.
Yukimura also had to fight and to insist to date him.

These were not his own choices. At the end these relationships broke (going back being clubmates again), and Kodaka himself don't make any attempts to recover a relationship, he easily cut ties.

And now the story ended with this status and the author tells us in the afterword that he always had this ending in mind. He can't be serious!

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by Marcus H.

I feel that a change of point of view is needed to appreciate the ending of Haganai. This isn't necessarily about living the life of a socially awkward human being or achieving riajuu by getting a girlfriend (or even a harem) before you get your high school diploma. Maybe it's just a sign that even social rejects can find some place to belong to, and how that's an underrated meaning of friendship.

This is exactly what it is. The ending of Haganai is a happy ending because there's nothing wrong with the new status quo -- he has a good high school life! He's not lonely, he's not miserable -- he found camaraderie among people who understand him, and who he now understands. They're making memories that will last a lifetime. And sure, there was a lot of drama on the way there, but it was a necessary part of getting to know each other and themselves. If they hadn't gone through that, they'd never have the understanding that would lead to their contentment. The club was started out of deceit and resentment, but comes back because that's where everyone's happy being themselves.

It makes total sense that this is the ending the author wanted because it's the one that makes the most sense given the way the story started. It's a story about the under-appreciated value and nature of friendship.

[IndexOfIdeas]

If this ending is true i fcking hate it

reasons being the fcking author:
-make to many shipping inducing scenes then ultimately troll us at the end.

-while i thought that the mc is developing to a good path it just fckng ultimately wnd in there is no change at all.

-all the build up the author make and trolling it in the end.


-should i steer clear oon this author's works in the future?
-i really feeled betrayed by the ending, i feel all those time reading it is wasted.

[mironicus]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

It makes total sense that this is the ending the author wanted because it's the one that makes the most sense given the way the story started. It's a story about the under-appreciated value and nature of friendship.

It makes no sense because the story started with the authors words "This novel is a story about myself who also had few friends, bad communication skills, negative thinking, lacking life experiences and useless delusional habits."

What the author might tell you today is "Today I have many friends, good communication skills, positive thinking, outgoing, good manners". I just changed all his words into positive ones. These are his aims in life.

The ending is that Kodaka himself completely gave up and just accepts that things happens, life flows like a river while he don't swim in any kind of directions, having no aims in life. What can you achieve in life if you always give up fast like Kodaka? Nothing! No happy life! No relationships with people you like, because relationships also only last as long you don't give up on them.

So for me these are just the bitter words of a loner who gave up to do what he likes in his life.

[Soraya21]

Originally Posted by mironicus

The Haganai-Harem is like this:
Kodaka's own wish: Please have fun, please play together, but don't come any closer to me!
A place where they all can be happy with the silent agreement that no one should make a move on him.

Sena confessed and he ran away and didn't came back on his own. Rika had to blackmail him to come back. So is there any desire in him to bond with other people? No! Absolutely not.

Rika had to fight with him and to insist to become his friend.
Yukimura also had to fight and to insist to date him.

These were not his own choices. At the end these relationships broke (going back being clubmates again), and Kodaka himself don't make any attempts to recover a relationship, he easily cut ties.

And now the story ended with this status and the author tells us in the afterword that he always had this ending in mind. He can't be serious!

This is pretty much my main gripe about how Boku wa Tomodachi ended. The whole friendship ending, while completely lackluster and unsatisfying, at least makes sense given the theme of this series. But the way Kodaka went about his goal of trying to maintain the club's status quo leaves a whole lot to be desired.

He wanted the club to stay perfectly intact by keeping romance out of its fellow members? That's fine: retarded but fine. Then why didn't he ever express this desire to Sena & reject her when she had first confessed, instead of being such a coward by postponing his answer, then never again addressing her confession until Sena hears which girl he had "chosen" via Yukimura's announcement of them going out?

Same thing with Yukimura. Despite his constant resistance to any in-club romance, Kodaka threw it all away & simply caved into Yukimura's strong-armed advances at the end (purely due to teenage hormones & despite the fact that his romantic inclinations had leaned towards Rika at the time), even though that could have potentially destroyed the club whether Yukimura had resigned or not; the outcome he had feared the most.

And lo and behold, his going out with another girl hadn't even affect the relationships between the other Neighbor Club members in the slightest. So all this time, Kodaka had basically been cock-blocking himself for nothing.

[Marcus H.]

I think people probably expected too much about light novels with similar themes as requiring some kind of development, positive or negative, comedic or angst-filled, romantic or tragic. As if coming of age stories have to conquer some kind of invisible foe like society, bullying, or self-contempt. (Or incest, as readers of Oreimo know.)

But what if Kodaka did mature, but only by accepting that what he is right now is good enough?
Realistically, "coming of age" isn't all about breaking walls and releasing oneself from "oppression". It's more about acceptance and coping with the harsh realities of life, which lines up well with Japanese culture.

In a way, Kodaka's story "about [himself] who also had few friends, bad communication skills, negative thinking, lacking life experiences and useless delusional habits" remains true to the end.

Still, it's understandable that some romantic issues are demanded to be resolved, since they are still plot threads that deserve to be dealt with. But judging from that small outrage by the narrative, we won't expect anything from it any time soon. Hirasaka-sensei might as well be done with Haganai.

[Endscape]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

This is exactly what it is. The ending of Haganai is a happy ending because there's nothing wrong with the new status quo -- he has a good high school life! He's not lonely, he's not miserable -- he found camaraderie among people who understand him, and who he now understands. They're making memories that will last a lifetime. And sure, there was a lot of drama on the way there, but it was a necessary part of getting to know each other and themselves. If they hadn't gone through that, they'd never have the understanding that would lead to their contentment. The club was started out of deceit and resentment, but comes back because that's where everyone's happy being themselves.

It makes total sense that this is the ending the author wanted because it's the one that makes the most sense given the way the story started. It's a story about the under-appreciated value and nature of friendship.

This is all well and good. The problem is, the author injected too much unnecessary shipping into the work.

If the story was all about the value of friendship, the stuff with Sena, Rika and Yukimura is just unnecessary. It really should have been handled with much less drama and more finesse, or better yet, not at all.

[Blueknight78]

Originally Posted by ImperialFlameGod8190

It was destined for that. Nisekoi at this point is destined for something similar. To Love ru is infinitely stalled because of this. As much as we men dream of harems and all it entails more often then not nobody is satisfied. There are very few exceptions of stories that can make a true harem work. Our beloved DxD is also encountering a similar problem. Harems arent that simple and making it work in actual action. In life and in romance although all is fair there's utimately gonna be losers. I can think of countless harems that encountered the same problem.

Originally Posted by MacMeaties

I'm glad to find someone else who feels the same way I do regarding harems.

Harems are a fantasy. In reality most people struggle to make a relationship with one other person work let alone a group. Polygamy can work in rare cases but often it doesn't just like most monogamous relationships but even less so. Just think of how many relations each of us readers have had that never went anywhere; now imagine just how much more difficult they would have been juggling 3-4 of them at the same time.
The whole genre is just pandering to a male fantasy in which they have a monopoly over multiple women they can choose from at any time without the concern of an actual relationship with any of them.
Beta MCs exacerbate this and Alpha MCs are even worse as they just outright skip the emotional relationships for having a bunch of fuck buddies who miraculously love him and stay faithful to him despite how he treats them for the most feeble, one sided reasons.

Got a bit ranty towards the end but still... long story short just pick ONE. Let the others move on with their own lives.

Spoiler for my opnion over harems if you love harem don't read:

that is why i true hate harems they are just a excuse for the "loosers" otakus in japan can dream in have many stereotype hot girls around then since they don't have courage and are "herbivorous/spineless/masochist near gay", i hate the 3 most commong of mcs archetype and the poor terrible excuse for the girls fall for the mcs like "he saw me naked i love him" or he open the door for me i fall in love or he is a big pervert which love to see my pants i love it.

normally harems have 3 types of mc: dense, coward and perv is nearlly impossible have a mc "normal" in personality that is my big rant toward harems and i avoid then most of the times, for me the harem most be very wako/funny to make me root, because i can forget the "failure mc" and focus in the laughts.

in the end specially in harem LN novels the plot is just what girl have the big boobs or better ass and everything is just a excuse for the mc moleste/touch them.

now going back to this novel, well i will hook with majority about how terrible this novel was and how kodaka reached a completly new level of "jerky mc", the level of cowardice from kodaka finally showed how extreme japan can go when using tropes, i really, really hated that guy with passion and was just following that series because after countless "volumes" i'm the type of not give up easy and try to follow to end even if i don't like it just to see how things gonna end.
but in haganai i made a excpetion and after few volumes i give up because i could see that "bad" end 2 to 3 volumes early, really kodaka not disappointed me in proof which this sort of "mc" still exist, well my overal note for this series is
3 / 10 for the comedy and the girls, i could give a little more but kodaka really runied everything.

for the mc is -1000000000/100

kodaka in the end was true the root of all the trouble, almost everything was his own fault to be a coward, normally most of the mcs try to be the solution but he was exactly the opposite keep being the trouble, doing mistakes over mistakes, saying wrong words acting really terrible and like a true coward the whole time.

[Somethindarker]

Originally Posted by Blueknight78

Spoiler for my opnion over harems if you love harem don't read:

that is why i true hate harems they are just a excuse for the "loosers" otakus in japan can dream in have many stereotype hot girls around then since they don't have courage and are "herbivorous/spineless/masochist near gay", i hate the 3 most commong of mcs archetype and the poor terrible excuse for the girls fall for the mcs like "he saw me naked i love him" or he open the door for me i fall in love or he is a big pervert which love to see my pants i love it.

normally harems have 3 types of mc: dense, coward and perv is nearlly impossible have a mc "normal" in personality that is my big rant toward harems and i avoid then most of the times, for me the harem most be very wako/funny to make me root, because i can forget the "failure mc" and focus in the laughts.

in the end specially in harem LN novels the plot is just what girl have the big boobs or better ass and everything is just a excuse for the mc moleste/touch them.

now going back to this novel, well i will hook with majority about how terrible this novel was and how kodaka reached a completly new level of "jerky mc", the level of cowardice from kodaka finally showed how extreme japan can go when using tropes, i really, really hated that guy with passion and was just following that series because after countless "volumes" i'm the type of not give up easy and try to follow to end even if i don't like it just to see how things gonna end.
but in haganai i made a excpetion and after few volumes i give up because i could see that "bad" end 2 to 3 volumes early, really kodaka not disappointed me in proof which this sort of "mc" still exist, well my overal note for this series is
3 / 10

for the mc is -10/100

Pretty much. This novel is a lot of missed opportunities and lukewarm delivery the MC is as cookie cutter as they come(he showed promise early on but then is you believe the rumors the first editor made him into a pussy) then the when the second editor came aboard the story turned into shipping garbage and completely deviated from the friendship that the previous 5 volumes were focusing on. The author rushed for the finish because the story became a mess and was so jumbled it would've taken 5 volumes to fix everything and the author was probably just tired.

about your harem comment.

Spoiler:

Personally I love harems but but not because I'm some sex starved neet or beta loser I like the thrill of the chase and the sense of competition to win someones affection. There are good harems out there you just gotta sift through a lot of shit to get to the good ones, I'd say about 3/10 harem stories are good the rest are either forgettable or down right terrible.

[Blueknight78]

Originally Posted by Somethindarker

Pretty much. This novel is a lot of missed opportunities and lukewarm delivery the MC is as cookie cutter as they come(he showed promise early on but then is you believe the rumors the first editor made him into a pussy) then the when the second editor came aboard the story turned into shipping garbage and completely deviated from the friendship that the previous 5 volumes were focusing on. The author rushed for the finish because the story became a mess and was so jumbled it would've taken 5 volumes to fix everything and the author was probably just tired.

about your harem comment.

Spoiler:

Personally I love harems but but not because I'm some sex starved neet or beta loser I like the thrill of the chase and the sense of competition to win someones affection. There are good harems out there you just gotta sift through a lot of shit to get to the good ones, I'd say about 3/10 harem stories are good the rest are either forgettable or down right terrible.

yeah in the beginner i liked the comedy, the girls where fun, our prota kun as more like just a "generic prota-kun" which you can forget, but as the serie progress while the girls progress he get worst and worst and to be fair that is when i get surprised but not in a good way, because normally the novels are about a loser which later become cool, but haganai was about a loser which just being a loser not was enough and he keep getting worst and worst instead or progress while the girls improved, he was "regressing, the "run kodaka run!!!! aways will be marked in my memory probably forever, that was the epitome of a true coward looser.
then he just keep being more and more loser making more and more worst choices, hurting more and more the girls, that was one of the few series where i true wished the mc end true forever alone which he true diserve it with passion, if possible even take his little sister from him and could not still enough for what he diserve.

Spoiler for about the harem:

yeah i agree which we can find few good ones but you need to digge a lot to find then on the surface of the "too generic ones" and that is my problem to find a good harem which actully is not for the comedy at last for me is very hard because almost everyone fall in the 3 types of plot mc where i just get tired of see over and over, one of the really worst exemple of harem is no doubt to love ru, the guy can keep shoving his face in girls pussy, hodling they boobs and pussys but can't give a single word or kiss cuz he still too embarrased and "nice guy" which can't reject but also can't accept", that rito make me sick, for me to love ru is just a soft core porn with your loved nice coward loser guy which have the bless of the pervert gods to be able have "times with girls" at anytime, is just about what will be the girl to be "sexual molested in next chapter for the loosers can fap not about romance.

it's not like i'm being moralist but "romance" don't means just molest/sexual assault girls

[Paracelsus]

There is nothing wrong with pandering, nor there is anything wrong with escapism and wish fulfillment. I'd say taking a houlier than thou stance against those things is baffling, rather than just taking them for what they are and enjoying them, but nonetheless. To me, the stupidest thing a LN harem writer can do is take the "journey > conclusion" approach. It may be the case sometimes but not for something like a harem or a love comedy. Girls are the draw in this case, so just advance whatever excuse for a plot you have, develop whatever character you think is suitable enough to win, make it reasonable, sensical for mc and that particular girl to get together and just have her "win". Is it pandering? Then pander, whatever backlash from wrong shipping doesn't matter.

Naruto was a fricking ninja manga and you had people cry in real life because Naruto got Hinata rather than Sakura (which was actually some very well done shipping, as opposed to have Sakura win because people self-inserted so hard into Naruto to the point it was either Sakura or nothing), but then in a in your face Harem they get nothing because the point is friendship.

Oreimo had to deal with the incest outrage, but the author still gave his best to tell you "he didn't want her, nor her or her. At the end himself and the sister are a thing, well kinda but not really but maybe *wink*"

It's the same reason why I dropped Yahari for the time being, people hoping he'd end up like the grumpy loner he always liked to be, riding off in the sunset. In a way he actually does sound like the Nolan Batman, except that one didn't end up alone.

[Darknemo2000]

Originally Posted by mironicus

And now the story ended with this status and the author tells us in the afterword that he always had this ending in mind. He can't be serious!

Maybe an author is simply a moron who has no idea what character development means?

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by Endscape

This is all well and good. The problem is, the author injected too much unnecessary shipping into the work.

If the story was all about the value of friendship, the stuff with Sena, Rika and Yukimura is just unnecessary. It really should have been handled with much less drama and more finesse, or better yet, not at all.

I think the author himself conceded that the story needed to re-focus on what it was really about in his mind, and this strife may well be part of what caused the big apparent blow-up among the production team.

There's no doubt that the work is flawed, but I think people are taking too narrow a view of the purpose of the story and the overall narrative.

Originally Posted by mironicus

It makes no sense because the story started with the authors words "This novel is a story about myself who also had few friends, bad communication skills, negative thinking, lacking life experiences and useless delusional habits."

What the author might tell you today is "Today I have many friends, good communication skills, positive thinking, outgoing, good manners". I just changed all his words into positive ones. These are his aims in life.

The ending is that Kodaka himself completely gave up and just accepts that things happens, life flows like a river while he don't swim in any kind of directions, having no aims in life. What can you achieve in life if you always give up fast like Kodaka? Nothing! No happy life! No relationships with people you like, because relationships also only last as long you don't give up on them.

So for me these are just the bitter words of a loner who gave up to do what he likes in his life.

I think you need to think about this a bit more deeply. How easy it to truly change your colors? Do you think the author would really even claim about himself that he is now the total opposite of what he once was? It's much more common for someone to just make progress: to become more self-aware, to realize your nature, and to improve. Kodaka's life didn't go from fully dark and gloomy to fully rich and colourful, because that's not realistic. He didn't become a different person. Rather, he just gained a broader perspective. He has some friends, he has better communication skills, he has not only negative thinking, he has some more life experiences, and he has a bit more perspective on life. And the fact that he comes to the realization that "hey, things aren't so bad now" is actually a key piece of character development, even though it doesn't seem like all that much on the surface. No, he doesn't go from zero-to-hero like some sort of shounen action lead, but he does grow up, and still has a longer way to go.

When you're a teenager, you sometimes think that when you get older things are going to totally change and you'll overcome all your weaknesses to change who you are and the world around you. But then, as life goes on, you start to realize that actually you don't miraculously change, you just learn how to better deal with yourself and with others based on your experiences along the way. And that's the sort of nuance of this ending. It's not "even losers can become 'riajuus', get the girl, overcome their loner-ness, and lead an admirable life!" All that basically says is that being a social outcast is a "disease" that you need to "cure" to become "normal" -- and that's pretty damning. The ending is much more affirming. You can be who you are, flaws and all, but still find friends and be contented in life.

So all this to say, I think you totally misunderstood the point of the author's comment and of the story. The author never put being an outgoing social butterfly on a pedestal that anyone should aspire to. Rather, it's the story of a bunch of people who had to learn to deal with the fact that they're not like that, but still find friendship and contentment anyway.

Originally Posted by Darknemo2000

Maybe an author is simply a moron who has no idea what character development means?

Or maybe there's a broader definition of character development than some people want to consider, but it's way easier to say the story sucks and the author is a moron than to actually try to consider it from other points of view.

[Blueknight78]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

I think the author himself conceded that the story needed to re-focus on what it was really about in his mind, and this strife may well be part of what caused the big apparent blow-up among the production team.

There's no doubt that the work is flawed, but I think people are taking too narrow a view of the purpose of the story and the overall narrative.




I think you need to think about this a bit more deeply. How easy it to truly change your colors? Do you think the author would really even claim about himself that he is now the total opposite of what he once was? It's much more common for someone to just make progress: to become more self-aware, to realize your nature, and to improve. Kodaka's life didn't go from fully dark and gloomy to fully rich and colourful, because that's not realistic. He didn't become a different person. Rather, he just gained a broader perspective. He has some friends, he has better communication skills, he has not only negative thinking, he has some more life experiences, and he has a bit more perspective on life. And the fact that he comes to the realization that "hey, things aren't so bad now" is actually a key piece of character development, even though it doesn't seem like all that much on the surface. No, he doesn't go from zero-to-hero like some sort of shounen action lead, but he does grow up, and still has a longer way to go.

When you're a teenager, you sometimes think that when you get older things are going to totally change and you'll overcome all your weaknesses to change who you are and the world around you. But then, as life goes on, you start to realize that actually you don't miraculously change, you just learn how to better deal with yourself and with others based on your experiences along the way. And that's the sort of nuance of this ending. It's not "even losers can become 'riajuus', get the girl, overcome their loner-ness, and lead an admirable life!" All that basically says is that being a social outcast is a "disease" that you need to "cure" to become "normal" -- and that's pretty damning. The ending is much more affirming. You can be who you are, flaws and all, but still find friends and be contented in life.

So all this to say, I think you totally misunderstood the point of the author's comment and of the story. The author never put being an outgoing social butterfly on a pedestal that anyone should aspire to. Rather, it's the story of a bunch of people who had to learn to deal with the fact that they're not like that, but still find friendship and contentment anyway.



Or maybe there's a broader definition of character development than some people want to consider, but it's way easier to say the story sucks and the author is a moron than to actually try to consider it from other points of view.

i could agree with that if not was for a single problem, if the things where really about "not changing" and being fine being himself then make the girls progress and only kobaka not progress kill that premisse, if the history was about a bunch of weird peoples making a club and learn to be happy being "weird" really could worked if the girls keep being the same.

when the only person to not change and even get "Worse" over time was kobaka which exactly the mc then this make sounds more like "dont" worry you can be still being the same weird loser and you will get hot girls which will be in love for you forever and you can keep running forever from then then everyone around you gonna happry progress and you can keep being the same coward loser and still happy cuz the girls even after change gonna still hook with you, the final idea i get here sounded really weird for me, others can move with they lifes but you don't need.

that is my problem, is not even about ship but about how terrible kobaka was not developed over the time he was the only one which the best thing he get in the end was "admit which he is a loser" and he don't need to worry about being a loser.

[mironicus]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

It's not "even losers can become 'riajuus', get the girl, overcome their loner-ness, and lead an admirable life!" All that basically says is that being a social outcast is a "disease" that you need to "cure" to become "normal" -- and that's pretty damning. The ending is much more affirming. You can be who you are, flaws and all, but still find friends and be contented in life.

Loners are not "sick" in any way, they are just negative thinking people who have given up to have the aim to make friends. And the girls have changed. They are much more sociable. So your interpretation "You can be who you are with all your flaws" is not the authors intentions. Yozora was a bully and now she is a butler with good manners. And as a bully she was not able to make friends because she only thought negative about people, unwilling to make bonds - you can only try to befriend her. It needed much time before Yozora was finally willing to agree to form a bond with Sena.

And especially Sena is just like the authors words indicates (for me) - a complete change in his life was possible, because he never gave up on his aim and got rid of everything that was holding him back to make friends: Better communication skills, good manners, positive thinking...

Sena was able to make a bond with an extreme antisocial girl, because she never gave up on her aim to make friends, and she never gave up on Yozora just as well. And this is a victory. And she still has not given up on Kodaka.

At this moment, the story feels uncompleted for me. Sena will keep her promise and ask Kodaka to date her after graduation if the story would continue a little bit. Uncompleted also feels Kodaka's background and why he has such an avoiding personality and why he is afraid of sudden changes in his life. He always gives up fast on his own plans. My guess would be that he has a personality disorder that holds him back to move forward in his life and to make friends, avoiding conflicts and problems, only wants to live a peaceful life without making bonds, extremely vulnerable, unwilling to change his life. If this is true then his life is very restricted and he needs to be treated.

There is not enough material for a third season. I doubt that the author is not interested to maximize profits, he always did that and extended the story as long as possible.

If we get a third season, the ending of Vol. 11 can't be the last episode. I don't believe that. So I hope we will get an exclusive good anime ending that satisfies more people.

Rather, it's the story of a bunch of people who had to learn to deal with the fact that they're not like that, but still find friendship and contentment anyway.

You also seem to believe that a person can't change his own life, which of course will be the case as long you continue to believe that. So your interpreation is compatible to Kodaka's giving up-attitude.

[kazzuya]

Kodaka is such a coward that can't take any risk. And always too afraid of failure. And too content of.what he has. And didn't at the big picture. Even if he is content that doesn't mean that the others are
He is such a selfish coward till the bitter end.

[zerozeronine]

Originally Posted by Somethindarker

That's the entire point of the novels dude.

You guys seemed to completely miss the point of the ending. They began all over again BECAUSE in the beginning they were a bunch of losers who were socially inept and afraid to open themselves up to other people but by the ending they'd already come to terms that what they held up on a pedestal ie; "friendship" wasn't that hard to find so they ate hotpot again to welcome Yukimura who was the only one who wasn't their "friend". Everyone else was already friends by that point Yukimura was the lynchpin since she basically rejected their entire time together so Kodaka wouldn't call her a friend and accept her confession.

Also why is everyone already assuming Kodaka is miserable or never grew up by the end of the story, he seemed to be reminiscing about his high school days at the end of the story with fondness? Not wanting to fuck a girl you don't love doesn't make you a loser it makes you far more mature than anyone else his age, even me when I was at his age. Kodaka by the novels end had already come to terms with them being friends and seemed perfectly happy in the epilogue. You guys need to take your shipping glasses off for a second and realize while the stories end was not that great from a plot perspective everyone had a happy ending. Kodaka isn't a materialistic horndog throughout the entire novel he's been shown, frustratingly so, that he's a simple guy who enjoys cooking and shit like spices.

They hate the ending coz they thought the story was about loner male MC getting a hot girlfriend in the end (whichever girl they ship),and hated it when he chose Yukimura instead of the girl they ship,and later they broke up,hoping for girl they ship to be the real end girl and got frustrated when it was open ended,in the relationship department

[Kuroageha]

^
Wow talk about missing the point...

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by Kuroageha

^
Wow talk about missing the point...

I'm honestly not sure it's missing the point that far. If Kodaka had chosen a girlfriend at the end, almost all the arguments in this thread about the lack of character development for the protagonist would deflate. The main thing people have complained about in this thread is that the protagonist seems cowardly, and that he rejected the other heroines, got pressured into dating Yukimura, and then broke up with her (though it was limited to begin with) to reset the status quo with the club. The claimed issue is that at the end of the story he chose the "let's all just be friends" ending, which seems like not really choosing anything from a third-party point of view. They've rejected his moment of realization at the end about the value of the club and friendship, which was basically the moral of the story.

In other words, people are mad that our "beta" protagonist remained a "beta" protagonist all the way to the end, and didn't actually "grow up and make a real decision", which equals picking a girlfriend and not just the club. So yeah, in a roundabout way, what zerozeronine said is basically right, even if it's for slightly different reasons. If he had "manned up" and chosen to date Sena, for example, the reaction in this thread would have been entirely different.

[Kuroageha]

That's not the points, which I meant is that Kodaka, who wants to keep the status quo should at least grow a mentality that makes others understand that he doesn't wants a relationship for the time being, however he takes the run away route, which is pretty inmature and irresponsible even for his age. It's not like the other girls won't concede to certain degree, they're not that desperate.

Isn't about choosing a girl but making them and the reader convey the reasons of his decision without making it feel like he was running away from them so he can fullfil a wish that won't last not even some months(high school was over in the last novel).